temp prim rezzers zapped?

Unless i missed an announcement (again lol) it seems LL are returning temp prim rezzers including inoperative/for sale rezzers....no warning...no time to link and remove displays before decimation...
There is potential mischief here for competitors to shop those using rezzers..no more rez a prefab.. or to force a land sale if not viable with low normal prim allowance.
A googled forum found someone affected in September by rezzer return on the excuse of lag however their request for SIM stats etc went unanswered. Noone had complained...

If SL are tightening their belts instead of investing in more powerful servers or allowing extra prims how long before the bling, flexi hair and clothes are robbed from our bodies?

Bottom line in these credit crunch days where increasing tier to get more prims is unjustifiable is that SL will be the loser..gone will be the pretty visually fantastic areas and experiences as precious prims are diverted into commercial concrete...can't waste a prim or 5 on a butterfly sorry..............

Where was that? Mainland or a private sim? Or both?

mainland....full paying member...no warning...

I would file an abuse report against the Linden that did it. And keep filing until someone explained it.

I second that.

I believe they do this if the rezzer is causing problems in the sim, or if it's being abused for something like continuously rezzing a 240 prim statue or something.

However, if they're returning low-lag vendors that temp rez the item for sale and don't cause any problems in the sim, that's very bad news. The person affected definitely needs to file a support ticket on this and keep persisting until they get an answer.

I had a take down warning on a previous (near forgotten) small land parcel using a rezzer and removed it straightaway as admittedly it was over kill yet when originally placed the SIM was near empty, set the land for sale never expecting to shift it and miraculously sold it within hours....(hmmm did someone want that plot so reported??)
Anyway last night rezzers were returned elsewhere at same time as email informing me they had been so now a large land area is a mess of half build...

I have submitted a ticket requesting clarification of situation.

Ok if on reasons of lag but hey a similar 'please remove asap' would be appreciated in the absence of a LL edict they can no longer be used. It shouldn't be assumed people temp rez just to be nasty neighbours....many must be law abiding builders trying to create a nice environment with good looking items over one prim.

Follows is the previous incident posted by a SL member found on google.


extract from a Sept '08 post elsewhere

i contact live help and i get ** Linden

she then comes out to my location to inspect and without saying anything initiates a sim restart as we see a 2 minute warning appear.

then she re-appears several minutes later, gives me a notecard telling me how temp rezzers are bad, vewwy vewwy bad ! and says nothing to me, then system messages start coming in that my temp rezzers are being returned and so are my rezzer sale boxes.

so i send her an IM and as expected she just doesnt like temp rezzers and without proof of any sim performance issues has decided to take action. end point, apparently there is no rule to say rezzers cannot be used but Lindens return them to their owners coz they deem them to be lag inducing regardless of what anyone says. i am not saying they arent, but my rezzers are top notch and i have no neighbours its an empty sim most of the time so no complaints.

anyhoo, this is what my premium account gets me.

-- Instant message logging enabled --
[5:30] member: Hi LL, so are temp rezzers illegal or not to be used?
[5:32] LL: anything that is used to the point it affects region performance will be returned for abuse of system resources. Temp rezzing is and anlways has been one of the top sources of that due to it's very nature and the fact that temp prims were never meant to be used in that way.
[5:34] member: alright, so you have determined that i was causing region performance and i should see the region improve now
[5:34] member: i wouldnt mind seeing before and after stats if so possible
[5:45] LL: If you're looking for a way to find a threshhold you won't find one. When we find a region with noticeable dips in performance due to temp rezzing we will return the rezzers to their owners. It may be one person rezzing 500 prims or 10 residents rezzing 50. The effect is the same and so is the response. If you want to market such devices that is your perrogative, but be aware residents tend to get upset when find they can't use them in the way they thought they could ("free prims"... "forget about your prim limit"... and so on)
[5:49] member: i had rezzers that were on display (ie not functioning) and also sale boxes with the name rezzer on them, you returned them, i'll assume because you determined they are in use . in anycase if its my perrogative to market such devices then why did you just deny me that right
[5:52] LL: If you want to place out the inactive rezzers go ahead, but I would advise not using any temp rezzers on the parcel in that case to avoid any confusion.

and here is the notecard she sent me prior....

~Temp on Rez~

You may have heard of these. They are marketed as a way to go over your prim limits with "free" prims. Temporary prims are anything but free. They are actually quite expensive when not used properly. They are prims that disappear after a minute or so and don't count against your primcount, and they are intended to be used for things such as single prim physical bullets to be rezzed and disappear quickly on their own. They were NEVER meant to be used in a way that simulates normal prims or complex objects.

Here is the problem with this sort of misuse: It takes just as much effort for the server to rez a temporary prim as it does to rez a normal prim. The server also has to go through the effort of removing the prims, so it actually takes double the effort. The more prims that are being rezzed, the more effort required by the server. When temporary prims are rezzed on a continuous loop by a script, they can (and usually do) create an enormous burden on the server. People have tried to make this less noticeable through techniques like staggering the rez time to avoid 'lag spikes'. These are parlor tricks at best in an attempt to hide the problem rather than deal with it. You get less noticeable dips in FPS and Time Dilation, but the overall effect is the same... they add significantly to lag in the region for everybody.

You can identify Temp on Rez is being used in your region by noting an constant fluctuation in the Objects number in the Statistics Bar. This is especially true if the region is otherwise empty. It may coincide with a periodic dip in FPS and Time Dilation, but not always. If your region is laggy and your suspect this is the reason, please submit a support ticket if you are on the mainland and we can investigate. If you are on a private estate, please contact the island owner or an estate manager.

LL
******
Basically we now need a grid wide 'no temp rezzers' or a set 'allowable' allowance otherwise the playing field will get very unequal depending on who your 'friends' are or aren't??

If the use of the temp rezzer was to get around the prim limit, then I say zap it.
If the temp rezzer is constantly rezzing in order to give the impression of permamancy, then I say zap it if it's loading the sim / the asset server / the network.

We don't know the precise circumstances in this thread, or even if the OP is the person who's rezzer was returned.

How many prims were temp-rezzed?
How large was the land?

The "mess of half-build" implies that the rezzing was continuous in order to achieve permamancy.

They were mine and ok LL should now return every single temp rezzer outlaw their creation and ban their use for everyone... no debate... and everyone has to adhere to the set land prim allowance. I have no dispute with that as long as it hits everyone evenly.

The rezzers were purchased as advertised to increase prim allowances thought to be legitimate and up to 500 temp prims max to parcel size. Attempts to exceed this limit are counterproductive due to flicker so users avoid this.
Removing temporary capability means smaller parcel owners cannot be so creative or will have to buy/rent more land and.... pay more tier.

There is a BIG difference between using a temp rezzer to temporarily display items for sale in a vendor or for other objects that aren't permanent, and using temp rezzers for permanent structures/getting around prim limits. The first is use, the latter is abuse. People in the first category certainly should not lose this ability because of people who choose to abuse the temp rezzers.

BTW, your original post is extremely misleading. You make it sounds like LL is randomly returning temp rezzers that are being used for permissible uses, like vendors, and then go on to suggest that they're about to start limiting attachments and everything else. Clearly this is NOT the case.

Well, if you insist on temp-rezzing 500 prims on, say, a 512 parcel... sorry, but you shouln't even wonder why it got turned off. 500 prims constantly temp-rezzed is sim abuse, no matter what the creator says.

There are legitimate uses of temp on rezzers and if used reasonably, they have little impact on the sim. It is hard to imagine how you thought this was reasonable use if this statement is correct:

"Anyway last night rezzers were returned elsewhere at same time as email informing me they had been so now a large land area is a mess of half build..."

A rezzer that is rezzing a temp on butterfly every now and then has minimal impact on a sim. A rezzer that is rezzing 500 butterflies every 50 seconds has a tremendous impact on sim performance.

I must agree, a sales display temp rezzer is one thing, used as rezz on touch.

But a loop rezzer to overcome prim limits will cause sim problems. Even if you own the copmplete sim it will still have an effect on neighbouring sims as the objects can be seen from there.

In this case your original post said one thing, and the facts were spmething completely different as you now state them. It seems that the Linden was correcxt in her action, but I do wish that they could be a little more civil at times

Was that 500 prims overall you were rezzing?
Or was it 500 per rezzer?

So how many rezzers did you have in use, and how many prims was each one loop-rezzing?

and how much land did you own?

It looks like it's a parcel that supports 2197 prims. Two thirds of her build is missing now. *coughs*

For prefab house sellers it is entirely possible to rez a display model for visitors to walk through on demand. Touch Activated and NOT Temp. I modified a freebie vendor long ago to do it when we still had a house lot. just used listens and a shout so one house deleted when another was rezzed, and any house left standing 15 minutes poofed.

House lots do NOT have to be dependant on TEMP rezzers and there is a big difference in sim resources between the constantly rezzing cyclic temp rezzers many use and a static touch driven rez it once vendor.

Correct on the total prim and wasnt using 500 temps, temp prims were split over several rezzers in different locations and wasn't 500 *** butterflies loll. I guess a case of buyer beware when purchasing temp rezzers that can't be used as per the instructions. If you read the other members September blog any rezzers seem to be a no no.
No sweat I can simply remove builds and redistribute prims once the extreme lag now present abates. At least others will now be more aware and a bonus for low prim builders.

I hope they don't just use the number of rezes per day to decide.

I use a teleporter that rezes a one prim. It has to rez a prim since the chair has to cross a sim boundary and tends to get lost at times.

It scans for the chair once every few seconds and then re-rezes it if it disappears. I've seen it constantly re-rez the prim as the sim nears the temp prim limit so someone in the sim must be using temp rezers.

Edit:
I could set the rezed prim so that is not temporary, however the warppos script sometimes gets confused and the chair ends up someplace. The temp on rez is a good way to prevent it from cluttering someplace

I used to do exactly the same thing. But instead, one can call llSetPrimitiveParams([PRIM_TEMP_ON_REZ, TRUE]) in the changed() handler just before warping. As long as the av is seated, the temp prim won't get removed, but when it gets to the destination and calls llUnSit(), the prim is eligible to be reclaimed.

my TV temp-rezzes it's control panel. after 60 seconds, it vanishes, and you have to click the TV again to get the panel again.

Temp is great for bullets, and honestly, it's awesome for vehicles, because as long as you're sitting on a temp prim, it won't auto-delete. So rez your awesome prim horse, set it temp, and hop on. Now you can ride your horse even into parcels that would otherwise be "full".

Temp is great for bullets, rockets, and other projectiles, or so-called "joke items" in sandboxes. if you've got something that doesn't need to be rezzed longer than 60 seconds.. temp is a perfect solution. Teleport poofers, posing stands..

60 second "show me the item" demo rezzers in stores, are really cool. And while not the originally intended use of temp, I think it's a reasonable use, since it's going to be gone in 60 seconds, and won't re-rez unless someone presses the "rez a demo" button again.

A couch.. if it's "rez on demand, sit on couch, then autodelete the couch when finished sitting".. then temp isn't a bad idea.

Anything that's being rezzed and re-rezzed every 60 seconds to try and make "permanent temp prims" is an "abusive" use of the temp prim function, and by rezzing the item 1440 times a day, you really are kind of slamming the sim, and ruining the experience for everyone.

Not sure I agree with this, if people are rezzing prefabs that can be anything like 100 or more prims then why should they not be using their parcel allocation that they paid for instead of using the shared resource for the whole sim? A couple of hundred prims is a big chunk of those 500 reserved for temp prims.
As stated in a previous post those prefabs can be done with non-temp prims and work exactly the same way.

because SL is really funky about "too many prims".. and if a land owner tries to rez too many (non-temp) prims for a given parcel, non-landowners prims will be returned from that parcel to make room for them.

Let's take the example of a car store. If you have a vendor on the wall, you can see photos of the car.. but to get a feel for the quality, you kind of need to "see it". While most cars have the upshot of being 30 prims or less.. similar items often aren't. Rezzing out an item like this for only 60 seconds.. seems perfectly reasonable.

Why not just allocate space for the car on the land? What if the shop sells 400 different cars? What if some noob gets "click happy" and decides to rez all 400 at once. While it's surely possible to add specialized "kill commands" into the rezzer(s).. the project starts becomming more and more complicated. Now we have to worry about a popular store, with people constantly dereszzing what the other person was looking at, by rezzing another. A multi-story, or large store, might need several "rezzing groups".. and suddenly the number of prims you need to keep free "just in case" becomes problematic.

Because those rezzers, are rezzing with the land owner's name as owner.. and it sucks to get half your mall renter's vendors autoreturned because some 3-day noob wanted to push all the buttons.

Yes, you could script all of this behaviour, and not only add rez-load when people push the buttons, but a lot of scripting load...

Or you could just use temp.

As long as you have to "press to rez once" I don't see a problem with using temp. That way, the system is only adding to server load when it's being actively used.. and it's no more stressful on the sim than rezzing it non-temp... and the cleanup and safety features don't have to add to script load.

While it's not the original, intended use of temp.. because it is in fact a TEMPORARY use of the mechanism, I think it's reasonable.

it's those "re-rez again in 60 seconds, and again and again and again" things that are the real problem.

Prefabs might be a bit of a stretch,.. but then 60 seconds isn't really enough time to check out a house. if it's rezzing a car, or an avatar or something.. I dunno, I think it's an edge case, but I'd call it reasonable if it was getting reasonably low use.

the "temp" flag isn't the problem.. it's the RE-rezzing that's the problem.