Why is Relay for Life Advertising on Adfarms?

not all ad space is an adfarm. but you lot choose to bundle us all under the same label.

and infact i would say there are only 4 or 5 users in the whole of SL who actualy create adfarms, and yet every single person who owns a 16 is griefed and harrassed by poeple like you.

im sooo glad LL are on our side.

Guys, it's really unfair to immediately jump at RFL and assume they are intentionally blighting the landscape. They probably just don't realize adfarms are a problem; after all, adfarmers do operate under a veneer of legitimacy. They look like billboards in real-life, so it doesn't even occur to you that something is wrong. When I first joined SL I knew nothing about the issues, so I ran ads with adfarmers until a friend clued me in to the problem.

yes, when it means your trying to boycott what a cancer charity are doing.

and not all adspace is an adfarm.

I were to actually do all the things I'm being accused of . . .

Yes, because we refuse to share our profits with this person.

It doesn't take much skill, does it, to slap 3 cubes/rectangles onto a 16m plot and use a texture switcher to switch the ads. (I admit, it does take more skill to make them networked.) And then buy land, cut it up, set the stupid things on them along with a price that is unreasonable..

And what benefit is it to the community? None.

I know I keep harping on it, but geeze, if you're going to have a networked ad system, why not work WITH your target audience? A small amount of free impressions per month to host an ad board in a shop/club/small and you cut the overhead of tier along with being virtual environmentally friendly. Your reputation increases, those shop owners become more willing to buy more impression time.. but this isn't the easy path and it requires time, along with people skills. I wonder if there isn't already such an ad system?

No, ads aren't going to magically go away. Even I'm not stupid enough to believe that and heck, I use the classifieds to advertise my shop, along with my sig. I want to do business with those that at least care about the virtual world we're logging into and the people in it.

Take a breath. No one is saying they will boycott ACS, just that they are considering not contributing in world to RFL IF they are knowingly using an objectionable method of advertising, and preferring to donate by other means. So ACL will still get their money.As far as boycotting a possible adfarmer, not saying you are, let the market dictate.

RFL has some of the deepest grass-roots support found anywhere on the grid. I'm not sure they really need paid 'ad space' per se.

I've personally offered most of my Caledon telehub areas for RFL info+kiosks this year as I have in the past. For every year of our existence you couldn't get around without practically tripping over them. And that's a good thing. There are a lot of groups a lot bigger than ours, too.

What I'd suggest is that people set out reasonably sized, tasteful information providers around their homes and businesses. Nothing bigger than your typical vendor - in fact, placing such things *inside* your shops may work better than outside. This is a community effort for a good cause; such methods work.

* * * * *

RE: mainland blight...

Two years ago it was *very* true that mainland blight drove people to the private estates. And yes, that still does happen. But the facts on the ground are changing.

Only 20% of the grid is mainland, any more. Premium membership doesn't really get you much. And even more telling: new mainland isn't being rolled out for noobs. What does that mean?

It means that estates compete with each other more than anything else. I've seen a huge demographic swing over the past year - I talk to people coming in, and why they arrived.

Some groups have never even bothered with mainland - they came onto the grid professionally and now want some land. Library and educational people have been coming over in great number that way.

Others have been on private estates for years, then someone drops a drama-bomb in their homelands and two dozen refugees flee for more sane shores. "Does Caledon have a council of elders?" "No..." "Any plans to have one?" "Never considered it..." "Okay, my half-elven wife and I, our four roleplay daughters, her drow sis-in-law and the three prim babies need land, fast!" "Right, I'll get on it..."

Honestly, people drive *each other* off private estates in great number. Between failed romances, disputes with region owners, and even their own lag (yep, they do it to themselves and don't even realise)... the mainland could vanish from the map and I doubt many private estate owners would notice much difference.

Take that for what it's worth - I make no secret about where my interests are. But if it's happening to me I'm pretty sure a number of other region owners would notice the same thing.

That said, mainland blight lessens *all* of us. It's a different world now; any advantage of it for private estates is largely gone.

Those remaining steadfast on the mainland are those who already have all the estate land they want, and want some 'no covenant land' to do whatever they like with. Or are people who refuse even the concept of private estates. Even the grid signup skips the mainland, depending where you choose to go.

So the mainland isn't really this incredible wellspring of refugees as it once was. Once upon a time a private estate owner could merely slice a region into sixteen islands, have a basic covenant, put up a for sale sign and be rolling in business. How many could survive on that business model today?

This proves the point: mainland blight isn't really helping anybody much.

oh pleeaaaaseeee! as if you do what you do to benefit the community.

this is what winds me up so much. you all act holier than though and yet your all here for your own selfish reasons.

I find it fascinating that "Networked Advertising Round III" is being received so negatively. Especially considering that "Networked Advertising Round II" was received so well.

Allow me to explain:

Networked Advertising Round I, was a project kicked off by Rathe Underthorne in late 2003/early 2004. Total bust, because the very small community at the time was completely against the idea. They rallied against it in these very forums - and killed it before it ever got off the ground. I think Rathe took lessons from this for his later Round II.

Networked Advertising Round II, was the second incarnation by Rathe Underthorn, called MetaAdverse - which was around from 2004-2005. Extremely successful, it was a networked ad system that linked advertisers with those who wanted to host advertisements.

Actually, it was very similar to what Raudf explains in her quote below:



Which brings us to Networked Advertising round III - Ancient's current service.

I think the big difference here, and part of why this is getting such a markedly negative reception - is that the surrounding landowners are effectively cut out from sharing in the benefits of networked advertising, but are burdened with all of its pitfalls (spam).

I do think its possible to create a Networked Advertising system that is palitable to the SL community. It just sounds like this one has missed the mark. The fatal flaw that's getting overlooked is that regardless of how much potential in-world advertising has, it must have community support for it to be successful instead of a pariah.

I say just continue to boycott every advertiser on AdFarm lot Advertiser (named 'terminal locations' here). When they proudly identify themselves add them and their advertisers to your boycott list.

By LL pulling their heads out of their wallets long enough to do the right thing and put the message about RFL in the MotD.

Honestly, I would think LL would do good to be involved with the people again and work with non-porfit organizations like RFL and others that promote good works. Would do LL's PR a world of benifit.

~Jessy

Really? Travis, I have no mainland property, but I like the idea of mainland as a convenant-free zone. When I wander there, I love the chaos. But the ad plots seem to me to be a blight.

I don't see anyone on this thread asking for shared benefits ... they are objecting to the visual pollution. Ancient's 32m2 plots do not look like they're part of an "advertising system", they look like piles of junk. They don't look like billboards, they look like cubes rezzed by a noob, piled up randomly. As opposed to the older billboards at ancient infohubs, which had frames and slowly rotating textures, gave notecards, and in general LOOKED like advertising.

I'm not opposed to advertising if it's reasonably tasteful. I think a different looking system would help a lot. Billboards that look like billboards, with a single repetition at flying height.

And, let me reiterate what Brenda said: no one is withdrawing support from ACS. I am simply advocating using market feedback to get RFL to use marketing that does not pollute.

Totally agree - and the fact that people see them as visual pollution is the end result.

I'm not trying to say that 'people dont like ads cause they dont get their cut'. What I mean is - if Landowners were the ones putting these up by choice, and had restrictions on doing so (such as how it worked with MetaAdverse) - I dont think we'd have the blight problem we see today.

Instead of ads being posted inside venues (where the people are!), they're placed on 16m parcels owned by the ad company, which use their sheer volume of 16m parcels to drive up impressions.

If ads were placed where people are actually congregated - instead of strewn across the landscape hoping for flyby eyeballs - they'd not only be more productive, but more palitable. Of course, in order to do that - landowners would need to be compinsated for hosting an ad on their property.

O great wit, please explain my selfish reasons, that I may repent!

Could it be because I want to recover some "selfish" dignity after an adfarmer (named elsewhere in this thread) planted the racist "Enjoy much goodness and informative information for you to use at every Greater Hong Kong Location Across the Grid! Powered by AdSoft..." on my doorstep?

Well, mea f*ckin' culpa.

O great wit, please explain my selfish reasons, that I may repent!

I'm sure it was his generous spirit that prompted an adfarmer (named elsewhere in this thread) to plant the racist "Enjoy much goodness and informative information for you to use at every Greater Hong Kong Location Across the Grid! Powered by AdSoft..." on my doorstep. Selfish of me to take offense? Well, mea f*ckin' culpa.

What kills me is realizing that I give these ad things IMPRESSIONS simply by being nearby!

Heck, does that mean that if I sit at my workshop making things, I count as one impression on the idiot ad tower nearby?

What a horrible thought!

Or do I count as multiple impressions, if it counts on a frequent basis?

Even worse!

Someone is profiting off the fact that I just happen to be nearby, counting that as an impression! What a scam.

What are we supposed to do, try not to live or work near these things? Impossible.

What someone said earlier about billboards was a point I was thinking about earlier, too.

If these things LOOKED like billboards in real life - as the ones in the old infohubs did - it wouldn't be as bad. These stacked cube dealies - criminy, that's stupid looking.

coco

Oh wait - you mean that Ancient Shriner's partner, Chrischun Fassbinder's idiotic Mr. Lee's piled cubes ARE powered by AdSoft, the network Ancient claims never sells land?

Well, roll me over and baste me in butter.

And here I thought he was making a good case that the parcel in my sim that had been for sale for so long had, at least technically, nothing to do with him.

I might have known.

coco

I think Desmond has a point and it's one that he made much better than I did. It's a slippery slope when we ask LL to ban something. LL has been pretty much hands off when it comes to banning things. Age-play, gambling and banking all had real world legal implications for LL so they took the action they needed to protect the company. Ad-farms do not have any real world legal implications, so they should not start banning them. People should be allowed to do as they please on their land.

Look at the ad farmers/extortionists scream like stuck pigs in here, though. I don't see many people demanding a ban. What I see is people boycotting ads. That's no LL taking action, it's a perfectly legal grass roots attack on a despicable, if legal, activity. Boycott adfarms, demand that LL give us the land tools to stop the adfarms from rendering on our land, put up screens so guests and visitors can't see the ads, surround them, screen them, then let them choke on tier. Put up signs on your land asking people to stop the blight and extortion and spread the word about not supporting them at all. Contact the people using adfarmers and tell them you won't be buying their product because they use adfarmers. Just be polite with them and explain about the extortion, bullying, and gutter tactics these people use.

oh, and sixteen. Stop being a douche and start acting like you care about other people. You're acting like your name and age are the same. Try compassion and consideration. It will make you feel better about yourself. You're selling your conscience and integrity for a few lindens. It's not worth it.

In fairness, all it means is that he uses the software. Any dolt could use it, but it doesn't mean that it's Shriner's property. How many people use the M&S Advertising gadget?

Regardless of the issue...your boorish and offensive speech is enough to have you muted by me. So long.

You admit that destroying value that others create in order to make a few lindens is perfectly
acceptable. To me, that seems to be the very worst kind of selfisness. It is possible to be selfish without being a parasite.

But didn't he admit that he was his partner?... so to make yourself look better you just let your business partner handle all the dirty deeds?

That doesn't mean that they cannot have separate properties or ventures.

Partner is Partner for a reason.

If your partner is doing something wrong, or unethical, and you stick by them, be prepared to take the tar and feathers with them.

See sig
~Jessy

Exactly! Banning is the worst route LL can take. First of all, I dunno if any two residents could even agree on what the definitions/rules should be - let alone a grid-ful. Second, that suggest makes work for the Lindens to police it ... something they just arent gonna do.

Yes, if you own mainland, you should be able to freely put whatever content you want on it (within the TOS). That is what has always made the Mainland so special. Sure there is bad, but it also can work well, with whole communities forming.

The one control that works, is economic. Though you can do anything you want on your land, that doesn't mean that when you want to leave that land and put it up for sale, that you can expect to net a high price while ruining your neighbor's experiences to extort them. If you are selling it, you are implicitely stating you do not want to use the land or be part of that community anymore. You can expect a fair price, but not use disgusting tactics.

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Limit maximum sale price based on land parcel size, to combat ad farms
http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-894