just so there is no confusion, I am not my partner Chrischun nor do I own Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong, so if she mixes us up, that’s her problem.
No offense buddy, but being partners with an extortionist is just as bad as being an extortionist.
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Why is Relay for Life Advertising on Adfarms? |
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Rocketman Raymaker
Registered User
Join date: 4 Feb 2007
Posts: 530
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01-28-2008 18:31
No offense buddy, but being partners with an extortionist is just as bad as being an extortionist. _____________________
"Proud member of the anti-ginko busy body committee"
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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01-28-2008 18:33
What this comes down to is what the community considers to be 'broadly offending' in some way.  Qie Niangao: It is so wonderful that you guess that you can see the future! You should take all that foreknowledge and run, not walk, to the nearest Stock Market and use that prognostication to make some money . . .oh, but that would make it necessary that you guess correctly. |
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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01-28-2008 18:55
Many of you will notice I don't have many posts to my name. The reason for that is I am so busy trying to build something up that I don't have time to answer totally baseless and factually challenged statements, because if I did spend my time doing that, I would do nothing else. There is no end to outright lying, as it is simple and temporally cheap to spit out a lie while it is time consuming to prove it false. I called you out this time Cocoanut, because I have let your baseless lies slide off my back in the past but now I have had enough. To Bradley, if you knew the multi-year history of the grief that both Cocoanut and Prokofy (together) have put me through, then you would recant your statement. A short amount of time searching on Google will prove me correct. Not only was my reply not disgusting, it was 100% justified. I publicly challenge her to PROVE her statement that one of my lots was for sale for any amount. My lots have NEVER been for sale, and just so there is no confusion, I am not my partner Chrischun nor do I own Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong, so if she mixes us up, that’s her problem. You are way off base with your characterization of me here, and nearly everyone here knows it. That parcel was for sale for ages, along with the other parcels, and you know that, too. Only recently did it become no longer for sale. If you are saying that this is Chrisschun Fassbinder's lot, not yours, and that you have nothing to do with this particular parcel, despite the fact that he is your partner, then I stand corrected regarding this particular ad parcel and your ownership of it. I have put you through no particular grief - in point of fact, YOU are the one who treated me abominably, and out of nowhere, the one and only time we met. You have had to suffer my opinions since, and I will point out, they are my opinions. And in my opinion - since you are so quick to trash others here - I will go ahead and point out that you are a consummate jerk and will always remain one, and your work in SL sucks almost as bad as your forum posts do. coco _____________________
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
Join date: 14 Mar 2005
Posts: 5,250
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01-28-2008 19:08
I'm sorry, Des, but that's really not the argument against adfarms. "Broadly offensive" is CS5; the case against adfarms is CS6, specifically the prohibition against conduct or objects that "inhibit another Resident's ability to enjoy Second Life." The clause addresses things a resident might do that diminishes the quality of other residents' experience, as an economic consideration, not moral or legal. This gives LL grounds to protect the marketability of its service by banning stuff that may be some fun for the perpetrator but causes disproportionate displeasure to others. Like griefing. Or, quite arguably, like adfarming. (Not that I think this is how adfarming will be made irrelevant, but that's how I think the argument goes. And yeah, there could be some disagreement about the net economic utility of one or another in-world behavior, but it's not the moralistic slippery slope of "broadly offensive." Interesting point. Personally I'd see it as perhaps both. Most people don't like the signs. That's 'broadly offending' by any plain talk definition. My main concern is if various minority groups might get quashed in the name of 'offending the majority' in some way. I'd like to see the signs gone; but I'd like to see good reasoning behind it. Economic viability of the mainland, or user retention as a reason for tossing ad signs - that would be a good reason. Second perspective, re: conduct or objects that inhibit enjoyment of Second Life... i.e. griefing. This I think would *definitely* apply in the case of small parcel extortion. Yet what of the case of a simply revolting billboard? It's not necessarily griefing. It's just horrendously noticeable and ugly. Ban something for mere ugliness and most beginner's builds will be bannable along with the signs, if aesthetic standards are used. I personally still think 'broadly offending' is the stronger case against a class of objects like ad towers. Well, ad towers actually used for advertising, not obvious griefing. _____________________
 Steampunk Victorian, Well-Mannered Caledon! |
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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RFL Has Resolved The Situation
01-28-2008 19:44
I just finished chatting with Synergy Devonshire with Relay For Life and want to let you all know that the matter has been resolved.
Further details will be coming soon when she makes a formal statement.  _____________________
My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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01-28-2008 19:48
Some of you people are really off the mark. Just so the good doesn't get tossed out with the bad, I'll name names: Translated: "Some of you people really nailed my ass to the wall. Just so my toadies don't get exposed to too much heat, I will name names:" Ordinal Malaprop: Totally misinformed and happy to spread that misinformation around everywhere. Please, tell me Ordinal, what are my alts and which products are you referring to? Don't let little details like facts get in the way, I'm sure your imagination will come up with something. Ordinal is probably one of the most intelligent, sensible, and wise folks here. What he says about you, giving my recent "experience" with your IM harassment, rings with the clarity of absolute truth. As for my metrics, my virtual world metrics capture and analysis package has been used by IBM for over 6 months, and has been audited extensively. It is an enterprise grade product running on multiple quad core servers, and represents the state of the art for virtual world metrics collection, with 100% uptime for six months running. Real Fortune 100 companies find value in my metrics package, so your opinion is of no consequence because it is just that, an opinion with no basis in fact. Maybe someone needs to go have a chat with IBM and let them know who they are dealing with. Unfortunately, that would be precipitated on the notion that you are telling the truth which, right now, I don't see as being plausible. One thing marketers are always good at; marketing and hyping themselves. That's why it is usually a safe bet to ignore any self-horn-tooting coming from that quarter. Cocoanut Koala: Pawn and shadow of Prokofy Neva, well known poster of vitriol and venom. Her info is so far off target that I’ll just tag this whole post as “False” with a blanket statement. Prokofy seems to be your favourite boogum. Maybe because you two are so much alike that you're jealous. Cocoanut usually calls stuff as she sees it, too (just like you claim to). I think that I would tag her posts as "hitting the nail on the head", ESPECIALLY if you claim them otherwise, as they've obviously struck a nerve, since you can't even refute them but instead just wantonly attack. Hmm.. where I have seen that before? Talarus Luan: here is someone that doesn’t watch any main-stream news sources and is proud of it. Enjoy your cave and ‘nuff said. Yes, I am proud of the fact that I don't consume the garbage that regularly comes out of the mouths of the mass media morons because it is sensationalized and distorted beyond reality. Thanks, but I will take my CAVE with my LAIR in it over your imaginary bullshit-filled world ANY day. Somehow, something tells me I am not very lonely, either. Desmond Shang: Thanks for your words. As Desmond knows, it is my belief that the Main Land grid is the Wild West where anything goes, and I agree that it is precisely because of the chaos on the main land that gentrified sims like Caledon do well … if the mainland were as orderly as many in this thread would like it to be, Desmond might be out of business. Yay for argumentum ad absurdum! So, it is OK to cause chaos on the mainland, so that private estates do well? Yeah, it is the Wild West, but you will note that Law and Order eventually won out over anarchy and chaos in the REAL Wild West, too. For the complainers about Ad Extorsionist, say what you will but I do not fall into that camp. Call me a dreamer, call me thick-headed, but don’t call me late for supper and don’t call me an Ad Extortionist! Yes, a name change and a little spin-doctor-cleaning of the ol' image works wonders. Well, until you realize that you forgot to add the detergent. To all of those who rail on the concept of ads on the mainland, all I can say is make Linden Lab change the TOS, or stop complaining. If user generated content is too much for you, there are plenty of Closed worlds for you to play in, that don’t allow people to build content . . .just try There.com. . . but watch out, they have Ads too! I don't rail against ads on the mainland. I am very much for targeted, properly placed advertisement. IE, RESPONSIBLE and ETHICAL forms of it. Two words that seem to be foreign to your vocabulary. Ad farms and billboard eyesores in the middle of residential areas aren't it. Keep trying, though! You'll eventually figure it out, or someone else with infinitely more business acumen will and hang your little venture OUT to dry. I don't think smacking down odious advertisement systems will remotely put a dent in REAL user-generated content. It will be alive and well, even if you dry up and blow away tomorrow. |
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Har Fairweather
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 2,320
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01-28-2008 20:06
The main dilemma is, there is no objective definition of ugly. We can talk about broadly offensive, but when you get beyond griefers and neonazis and goatse and their like you tread onto the slippery slope to what pisses off the nut case who has his finger on the delete key at LL - and his nuttiness may very well be directly opposed to your nuttiness, so you are a fool to embrace that option.
As the multi-millenia saying goes: Beauty (and therefore ugliness) is in the eye of the beholder. So I think the solution lies in giving the beholder the option to deal with his problem himself without affecting the experience of anyone else. Giving options to the Resident is what this is all about, and I believe it is what SL itself is (or ought to be) all about. It is obvious that to Ancient Shriner and Cetherea The Red and all their fellow advertising Huns and Vandals, ads are a thing of beauty and pearls of great price. Fine, let them have them. It is obvious that the ad farmers' idea of beauty is the epitome of monstrousness to everyone else - which is saying the same thing in most cases: If it's monstrous enough you'll pay up to get rid of it, and that is their pearl of great price. OK, that's the problem here, let's deal with that. So you've got this property. And over there is this ad farm with everything on it that the ad farmer figures is most monstrous and disgusting to you. And he, she or it is right. What to do? The immediate, most practical option available is: Ta Dah! SCREENS! The right screens can be gorgeous. Let the ad farmer have his idea of -erm-uh-whatever he thinks it is. If you don't have to look at it or experience it WTF do you care? That is what you should do right now: Get gorgeous screens. (Full disclosure: I sell gorgeous screens - for just this purpose.) The longer term solution is to get LL to give Residents the power to mute stuff they don't like AS SEEN FROM THEIR OWN PARCELS. Your land, your rules, right? So if your rules include muting out what your ad farmer or other malefactor neighbor has put on his property, you should be able to do that. Imagine if you could make every rezzed object on that other property invisible. And make any avatars there invisible too, so you would not be invading their privacy by taking away the walls of their houses or whatnot. Great solution, right? Well, guess what? LL coding allows you to do that RIGHT NOW! With one teeny little problem: IT ONLY ALLOWS IT ON YOUR OWN LAND. Right now, go to your parcel, or one where you have been granted land powers, and type in these two keyboard commands: CMD-ALT-SHIFT-1 and CMD-ALT-SHIFT-4. The first makes all rezzed objects on your land vanish. The second makes all avatars including yours on your land vanish (the name tags remain visible). The result may not be all that pretty, but it ain't ad farms, and no avatar is left visible in a compromising position, right? Right. Now, how much coding would it take a competent coder to make it possible to apply those two combined commands at once to any neighboring parcel of your choice and make that application a default choice when you log in? I'm no coder, but I'll bet you more than a couple of L$ that it would not take much longer than it is taking me to write this post. And guess what? PROBLEM SOLVED! Not only ad farms, but every other ugly build on a nearby property imaginable to the mind of the most evil land-extortionist in the galaxy. Nobody has to legislate standards of aesthetics; LL doesn't have to do a damn thing beyond make what is almost certainly a minor edit of its existing code. Nothing has to happen except that you click on that choice for that parcel, and voila! You're free of the sonuvabitch! The immediate subject of this thread: Get RFS to understand that if you lie down with dirty dogs you will rise up with fleas, and people don't like fleas. I get the imnpression that has been accomplished. Now, let's get on with the rest of the solution. Get LL to implement this undoubtedly very minor adjustment to their existing code. And Ancient, Cetherea, and all your fellow Huns and Vandals, eat your livers. |
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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01-28-2008 20:23
Cristalle: If you acquaint yourself with banner ad click though rates, or magazine ad response rates, you would immediately recant what you said. My closure rates are more favorable than these. Thanks for making the calculations, but you are missing some important points. Average Banner Clicks on the Internet are about .5% ... you correctly calculated the ACS ad at .6% click-through rate, a full 20% higher than Internet averages. If you do your homework you'll see that what I have said about banner ad click though rates is correct, and I stand by it. These ads performed better than the straight Internet averages, and THAT is what marketers are looking for. Sorry to rain on the nay-sayer's parade, but seeing as banner ads are a billion dollar business, it is obvious that electronic marketers are satisfied with a .5% click though rate (but the ones I know are always looking for better!). Man, what a whitewash job! What direct sales advertisers came to feel about banner ads is that the response rate for banner ads is low. For most banner ads, the industry average seems to hover between two and five clicks per 1,000 impressions of the ad. That is, if a banner ad appears on 1,000 Web pages, between two and five people will click on the ad to learn more. Those five clicks per thousand impressions don't have much value to most advertisers. The reason is because those five clicks will not all generate sales. Out of 100 clicks, perhaps one person will actually do the desired thing (buy something, download something, etc.). That's 0.2% to 0.5%, so you are already erring on the HIGH side of the average. OK. Fine. The next point is that 0.5% is of the WEB AS A WHOLE, not some rinky-dink little advertising system inside of a comparably tiny virtual world. You SHOULD do a LOT BETTER than 0.5% inside of SL, where you have the capability to target ads with surgical precision. Comparing response rates inside of SL to the rest of the web is definitely nothing more than comparing apples and brake drums. |
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Sarah Nerd
I BUY LAND
Join date: 22 Aug 2005
Posts: 796
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01-28-2008 20:29
I can't wait to hear what RFL has to say about this issue being resolved. I'm sorry but no matter what the cause, devaluing the property's of the people you advertise next to, the people viewing the ads against will, is NOT a good way to raise funds. I still feel the same way I did in the begging. I have no hard feelings for RFL. I still think it's a very dirty move on Adsofts part to allow such a worthwhile cause to be associated with a practice thats looked down on by the community to better themselves and argue there point.
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Talarus Luan
Ancient Archaean Dragon
Join date: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 4,831
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01-28-2008 20:50
Many of you will notice I don't have many posts to my name. The reason for that is I am so busy trying to build something up that I don't have time to answer totally baseless and factually challenged statements, because if I did spend my time doing that, I would do nothing else. There is no end to outright lying, as it is simple and temporally cheap to spit out a lie while it is time consuming to prove it false. Yes, the inevitable necessity of making a new alt when the heat surrounding the old identity gets a little too hot to handle. It's only time-consuming to prove a lie false if you have to find a way to spin it false because it really wasn't a lie to begin with. Truth is truth. If there is a lie, you out with the direct truth and the proof, and those who are telling the lies are exposed for what they really are. So far, there's no proof in your pudding, and even the pudding itself is rather bland and tasteless. I called you out this time Cocoanut, because I have let your baseless lies slide off my back in the past but now I have had enough. To Bradley, if you knew the multi-year history of the grief that both Cocoanut and Prokofy (together) have put me through, then you would recant your statement. Sounds to me like you asked for every bit of it, too. You seem to go out of your way to make enemies; well, what the feck did you expect? You're not a very smart businessman if you constantly have to make enemies out of people who MIGHT otherwise give you some quarter. As it is now, your own shenanigans darken your future and constrain your success. If this has been going on for years, then you might consider some remedial public relations or business management classes at your local community college. Seriously. A short amount of time searching on Google will prove me correct. Not only was my reply not disgusting, it was 100% justified. I publicly challenge her to PROVE her statement that one of my lots was for sale for any amount. My lots have NEVER been for sale, and just so there is no confusion, I am not my partner Chrischun nor do I own Mr. Lee’s Greater Hong Kong, so if she mixes us up, that’s her problem. Of COURSE it wasn't disgusting, TO YOU. Sure it was 100% justified, TO YOU! It's the same old sentiment you display in the way you treat everyone; with selfish arrogance. For the rest of us, our responses were 100% justified, too. As for your "partner", the old saying goes "lie down with dogs, get up with fleas". I am too a singular person, have not used alts, and am president of real company that has had real news stories about our work in Second Life displayed on CNN, ABC, CBS, Advertising Age, The Miami Herald, Wired, The New York Times, The Denver Post, The San Francisco Chronicle, and many more. *yawn* *waves tiny little flag* "yay". Lots of people all over SL have had their stuff hyped in the media. Big deal. Glad you could join the ranks. Would you like a cookie now? Only the truly lazy wouldn’t be able to find out who I am. Transparency is necessary in Real Life business so I don’t hide behind my Avatar, unlike some. Only those truly bored with life would care. Ok I'm about done playing in this sand box because too many of the kids here bite. I'm going back to getting stuff done . . . Yeah, well, you poke people with sharp sticks, chances are, they will bite back, and rightfully so. Please do go back to your little project and save yourself (and us) a lot of grief. |
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Alicia Sautereau
if (!social) hide;
Join date: 20 Feb 2007
Posts: 3,125
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01-28-2008 20:55
The total thread sum up for a n00b:
AdFarms suck Ty for the popcorn. _____________________
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Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
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01-28-2008 21:41
To Lindal Kidd: How would you know that Ads don’t perform? I have been working on my Ad network for two years now and have hundreds of millions of impression minutes logged . . . I know that I can get over 50,000 unique avatar impressions per month with an ad, and with click through rates higher than any Internet banner ad campaign. How long have you been running your network and how many millions of records of data have you logged? To Jessica Elytis: I posit the same questions I made to Lindal above. You speak from feeling, I speak from fact. I spoke from fact. Numbers don't mean squat. Go look at LL's population numbers if you want reference to that. If you feel that my facts are not true, then you can take up my challenge in my previous post and show ONE successful SL buisness that uses adfarms. I notice you quite definatively sidestepped that part of my post. As to how many millions of records of data have I logged? Trillions of trillions. It's called using my brain. Something adfarms don't want people doing, but hey, I've always been my own woman. Did I sit and waste my time on meaningless numbers day after day? No. I only lived in SL for over two years running. In that timeframe, I have watched SL grow from the small 2 continent world dotted with islands to the 5 continent world splattered with a mangnatude of islands. I've seen the changes to SL. One of those changes has been the scourge called "adfarms" and persons advocating that ads "work" in SL, but never bringing and facts to the table. Proving something is NOT is a lot harder than proving it IS, but I can prove the ads are NOT working. How? By the number of Residents that speak here on the forums and inworld stating about how they avoid places that use adfarms. While the people here and those I talk to may be a minority, they are ones that have been here and are part and parcel of SL. That doesn't always mean time here.Some have been here but a few months and own several islands already. Some don't own land, but are Charter Members that have been here since LL first opened logins. ALL of them say the ads don't work. Since we're the customers targeted by the ads, I'd say we have a fair idea of if they work or not. Yes, the names do stick from seeing them over and over again on every 16m parcel. However, unless that buisness is striving to breed hate of their buisness, I'd say it's not having the effect you were looking for. In the game of advertising, my friend, perception means all. Fact means nothing. If you don't know that, find another field of work. ~Jessy _____________________
When your friend does somethign stupid:
Dude, you are a true and good friend, and I love you like the brother that my mom claims she never had, but you are in fact acting like a flaming douche on white toast with a side order of dickknob salsa..maybe you should reconsider this course of action and we go find something else to do. |
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Senga Tsarchon
Clinging to the future
Join date: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 185
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01-28-2008 22:27
Hi Im new here and i think ad space is great! ive been putting my feelers out and am getting loads of businesses who would love to advertise on the adspace ive been aquiring. business is booming! whats all the hate about? isnt SL the place of free enterprize? I'm not sure if that's the entire concept behind SL. I don't do business with people who offend me. This includes obnoxious ads or rude sales tactics. I follow this rule in SL as well as in RL. If this offends you, don't do business with me. |
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Bradley Bracken
Goodbye, Farewell, Amen
Join date: 2 Apr 2007
Posts: 3,856
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01-28-2008 22:38
I can't wait to hear what RFL has to say about this issue being resolved. I'm sorry but no matter what the cause, devaluing the property's of the people you advertise next to, the people viewing the ads against will, is NOT a good way to raise funds. I still feel the same way I did in the begging. I have no hard feelings for RFL. I still think it's a very dirty move on Adsofts part to allow such a worthwhile cause to be associated with a practice thats looked down on by the community to better themselves and argue there point. I told Synergy that I would allow her to speak for herself in her statement but the smiley faces in my post should give you a hint.  _____________________
My interest in SL has simply died. Thanks for all the laughs
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Solanghe Sarlo
Gypsy Free Thinker
Join date: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 644
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01-28-2008 23:54
Ah ok. New to the forum but an old time idiot when it comes to understanding how our community feels as a majority about this type of business. Thanks for clearing that up for me. *puts an arm around Sarahs waist and gently removes the bag of troll food. Then, takes her out for pie* _____________________
The key to a contented life: Figure out who you are, what you are, fix what you can and make peace with the rest.
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Lias Leandros
mainlander
Join date: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,458
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Business Owner says NO to free Adfarm Space
01-29-2008 00:51
Bear Sim has reached a new low with a road-side spinning adfarm with over 40 cubes floating above it. It has been abuse reported for 5 days to no avail. I contacted one business person who's logo was on the land. He quickly came over and sent a message to the parcel owner to remove his logo from the Adfarm.
So do not give up anti-adfarmer activists. You can make a idfference without sticking your head in the sand (like the advocates of a 'see no evil' feature added to the client). http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e298/bladyblue/?action=view¤t=spam_006.jpg http://s41.photobucket.com/albums/e298/bladyblue/?action=view¤t=spam_001.jpg _____________________
 http://slurl.com/secondlife/Bear/214/199/107 Join in SL open enrollment CLUB JOBS to announce new DJ and Host Jobs for free. And on Avatar's United http://www.avatarsunited.com/groups/club-jobs |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-29-2008 02:21
By the way, I've been informed that some that I thought were alts of Shriner probably aren't - so, it's just the horrible ads, then.
_____________________
http://ordinalmalaprop.com/forum/ - visit Ordinal's Scripting Colloquium for scripting discussion with actual working BBCode!
http://ordinalmalaprop.com/engine/ - An Engine Fit For My Proceeding, my Aethernet Journal http://www.flickr.com/groups/slgriefbuild/ - Second Life Griefbuild Digest, pictures of horrible ad griefing and land spam, and the naming of names |
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Tegg Bode
FrootLoop Roo Overlord
Join date: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,707
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01-29-2008 03:27
As Creator of the AdSoft Network and poster of the ACS ads I thought it was time I weigh in and set the record straight. There has been so much disinformation spread in this thread it is hard to know where to start. A point by point answer to the previous posts seems in order: To Carl Metropolitan (love your builds!): They went on my network because In-World advertising plainly works. To Puppet Shepherd: The senior folks at ACS/Relay for Life select AdSoft because we don’t do any of the things that I’m accused of further down this thread. Read on and you will see what I mean. Also, we promised to delivery hard statistics, which we have. These hard stats are VERY promising and show just a taste of the power that In-World advertising provides. To Bradley Bracken: AdSoft only appears one ad terminal per sim region. There are no AdSoft ad farms in all of Second Life. To Infiniview Merit: AdSoft has NEVER purchased land with the purpose of cutting off a corner and then reselling it. We have purchased all of our 32 sq meter lots from the open market, usually for less than 500 L$ each. Again to Puppet Shepherd: We have NEVER extorted money for our lots, because they have NEVER been for sale. To polite people, we offer lot switches, so people can get us another lot in the same sim, preferably closer to the road, and we’ll move for free. I am famous for never selling, so how can I be an extortionist? To Tegg Bode: AdSoft did donate the network run time to ACS, because we donate 15% of our network to free posting of Non-profit and community service type ads. Since our network is just now rolling out (December 15th, 2007 was official launch) not many know about the open offer, so ACS was first to take advantage of it. To Peggy Paperdoll : You are 100% right, Ad Networks work and they have great ROI. To Phreak Flow: Amen! You buy the land, not the view. What we have here are a bunch of Land Fascists trying to dictate to others. I have never broken TOS, and while people violate TOS against me every single day, I stand firm on what I believe in. To Sarah Nerd: Funny to hear you call other people nasty with the Die Spammer Die campaign you were associated with not to long back. Does Dragon Keen ring a bell? To Arua Rotaru: See comment above made to Puppet Shepherd. We never extort. And by the way, there are zoning laws in SL, they are called Private Estates and he who owns them sets the zoning. Main land is the wild-wild-west, and it’s not for everyone. I am personally also against the ad spammers and ad farm makers, as it gives the legitimate practitioners a bad rap. To sixteen Hax : Right On! So that you should know where the hate comes from, it is from a small cabal of vocal land consolidators who make their money from joining lots. Ad lots, especially ones not for sale, are a thorn in their side as it prevents them from making large contiguous (read profitable) lots. To Cortex Draper : Our ads outperformed their every expectation, giving them over 30 sign-ups in just a few days. They were hoping for that in a couple weeks. Now they have over 50 signs-ups and couldn’t be happier with the results. It is true that people like you have strong feelings, but you are not in the majority. To Lindal Kidd: How would you know that Ads don’t perform? I have been working on my Ad network for two years now and have hundreds of millions of impression minutes logged . . . I know that I can get over 50,000 unique avatar impressions per month with an ad, and with click through rates higher than any Internet banner ad campaign. How long have you been running your network and how many millions of records of data have you logged? To Jessica Elytis: I posit the same questions I made to Lindal above. You speak from feeling, I speak from fact. The facts are: ACS people approached me about effectiveness of In-world advertising. I supplied them with PDF reports showing activity on my top 10 ads (40-50K impressions with very high click-through ratios). They were intrigued. I told them that 15% of my network was for non-profit or community messages, and they took me up on the offer with two ads. Every point of contact I have had with ACS has had nothing but happy words about the work we’ve done for them and the results that they have gotten so far. More Facts: Our ads do not spin, our ads are not placed together in farms, we never cut lots to make ad lots and never sell our land so we cannot be extortionists, we always offer to move our lots in the same sim region based on polite requests (have done it dozens of times), we prefer to have land next to Linden Lab roads, and we only show PG ads. I will not apologize for being the most responsible advertising network in SL. If all the other advertising networks were to hold the high standards we hold, there would be no complaints. Thanks for the reply, sorry if things seem a bit warm but adfarmers upsetting people is one of their business models, from what I read here, if it is true and a contnual aim for your business model them I'm impressed, Advertising is going to happen in world we all do it to a degree, (Damn guady looking green neon Signs at that Teggo store in Andraca <shameless plug> ) And if Ad networks were to follow this sort of model I'm sure most residents would be happier. If any other network owners they follow more responsible codes than these please lets hear. I'd also like to think this is the model you have aimed for since 2005 too. I'd also like to think the turmol generated does not prevent RFL from accepting free advertising from legitimate sources. The picture that started this however [laces you adlot in a group of other 16m plots giving it the appearnce of being part of an adfarm. It's sad that in cases like this you would be best distancing yourself away from the clutter where possible.The problem being your pretend competition who use fake advertising and ask extortion prices for land, seriously tar your industries image. I understand the tension this issue causes you with so many people directing a lot of negativity towards you, I been guilty of flying off the handle myself. I have to diagree to the "you don't buy the view", I'm sure if you brought a nice hillside plot either in SL or RL overlooking a beach or lake then found the neighbour in between built an 8 story apartment block overnight blocking that lake from sight you would not be impress, you could alsways sell and just buy elswehere of course. Your replies to 2 other people here don't sit well with me in general, implying that people here are trying get rid of adfarmers to buy/sell land for profit isn't right. People are strongly against adfarmers, you need to distance yourself from them, it's likely many things proposed could affect legitimat ad networks too. Mainland is only like the wild west because people do things that would be considered wrong in RL, because there is nothing but their conscence stopping them and the rules are non-existant. _____________________
Level 38 Builder [Roo Clan]
Free Waterside & Roadside Vehicle Rez Platform, Desire (88, 17, 107) Avatars & Roadside Seaview shops and vendorspace for rent, $2.00/prim/week, Desire (175,48,107) |
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Conan Godwin
In ur base kilin ur d00ds
Join date: 2 Aug 2006
Posts: 3,676
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01-29-2008 03:33
God forbid they should advertise where people will see it!
Whatever next!? _____________________
hateful much? dude, that was low. die. . |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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01-29-2008 04:47
God forbid they should advertise where people will see it! Whatever next!? Herding newbies to where the Ads are? _____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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01-29-2008 05:00
God forbid they should advertise where people will see it! We can pretty much characterize the demographics of adfarm passersby: other adfarmers admiring their squalor, a few brave vehicular thrill-seekers zipping by on the Linden road, lost n00bs clicking anything in search of freebies, disgusted neighbors, and random drifters. Of the sign-ups to the kiosk contest, we aren't privy to how many of them came from which ads--how many from ACS island itself, for example--and how hard it was for talented builders to even find an ad to click on if they already knew about the contest. So, for this particular message, perhaps the most effective vehicles wouldn't be ads of any kind, but rather notices to the various building groups, postings to the building forum here and sluniverse, etc., and press releases to the media. The objective of the message may have been more than just collecting contestants, but also to begin building awareness of a new RFL campaign. And that's where my question arises: What happened to the kiosks from past ACS fundraising campaigns? If they were still in place, it would certainly be easy enough for them to be scripted to transmogrify themselves into a network of "contestant collectors"--and then, later, into the new kiosks (well--as long as they didn't have to glow ). But I don't know if those who donate the space for kiosks are anxious to take them down between campaigns; I wouldn't think so, but I'd be interested to know if there's a problem with this approach, or if it might be something ACS should consider for the next kiosk installations. |
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sixteen Hax
Registered User
Join date: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 13
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01-29-2008 06:06
some of you people make me sick. your so intenet with trying to stir up false propaganda against ad space, that you are trying to boycot what a CANCER CHARITY are (succesfully i might ad) doing to promote awareness of their cause.
all so you can keep the value of your land business up. dont you find that a bit revolting. i certainly do. and just to rub salt into your greedy wounds I will just remind you again that..... AD SPACE IS HERE TO STAY AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! WOOOHOOOOOO! FREE ENTERPRISE RULES OK! |
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Brenda Connolly
Un United Avatar
Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
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01-29-2008 07:18
There's nothing wrong with advertising at all. Resident businesses who do it in a tactful and responsible way get my attention and potential business. All others get ignored by me and my money. Yes, free enterprise is a wonderful thing.
_____________________
Don't you ever try to look behind my eyes. You don't want to know what they have seen.
http://brenda-connolly.blogspot.com |
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
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01-29-2008 07:25
(succesfully i might ad)  But, "successfully"? There's some breathless blog hype about what wonders have been performed by AdSoft in this campaign, and there's the afore-posted statistics. Fortunately for this advertiser, the ads were free, so one might expect any results would be gravy. Or not. Who, specifically, used the ad network to sign up? Are they really the target audience for this campaign? What we know is that after a few days of saturating Mainland roadsides on hundreds of terminals, a few dozen clickthrus lead to "sign-ups." AFAIK, a "sign-up" here means agreement to get information about a building contest with a L$5000 prize. Suppose any n00bs who haven't yet found Control-3 might "sign up"? Yes, adfarm advertising works astonishingly well--for scammers. If one is running an "island pump-and-dump" scheme, for example, there's nothing like roadside ads to lure in clueless victims. Legitimate businesses and organizations know better. Or if not, they need to be informed, as with this thread. |
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Ravenhurst Xeno
Consiracy with no purpose
Join date: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 147
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01-29-2008 07:40
some of you people make me sick. your so intenet with trying to stir up false propaganda against ad space, .... all so you can keep the value of your land business up. dont you find that a bit revolting. i certainly do. and just to rub salt into your greedy wounds I will just remind you again that..... AD SPACE IS HERE TO STAY AND THERES NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT! WOOOHOOOOOO! FREE ENTERPRISE RULES OK! So it is sickening and revolting that people who have invested their money in SL land want to maintain the value of that investment. While it is perfectly acceptable for you to destroy that value in order to enrich yourself? |
