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child avatars - where to report.

Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-18-2008 08:49
That is a very well written WIKI page, Marianne!

Heh, I never even considered the Partner field as something someone might find questionable. But again, if the person's main form is an adult, no reason that adult can't have a Partner.
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
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01-18-2008 08:52
From: Marianne McCann
This would not include a child avatar with a couple groups walking through a store as illustrated above.

/me absolutely agrees.
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
01-18-2008 08:58
From: Ceera Murakami
That is a very well written WIKI page, Marianne!


Thankoo! I did it cuz I got tired of typin it all the time. :-)

From: someone
Heh, I never even considered the Partner field as something someone might find questionable. But again, if the person's main form is an adult, no reason that adult can't have a Partner.


After nearly two years as a kid in SL? I've heard 'em all. ;-)

Mari
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world :)" - Prospero Linden
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-18-2008 09:07
For the proximity thing, you gotta rely on a bit of common sense. A normal looking house with a swingset in the yard could well have a non-sexually-scripted bed in the kid's bedroom, while 'mommy and daddy' could still have their sexgen bed down the hall. When we roleplayed the birth of my SL daughter, Reisuki, (who is actually an alt of mine) I made a crib for her room. The only thing it was scripted to do was to open and close the front gate. Several months later, when she 'got older', she graduated to a twin-sized bed that only had a sleeping pose. Other bedrooms in the house might have adult things in them, but not hers.

But BDSM gear clearly made for child avvies (not just scaled to fit small avatars, but with hover text that clearly states it's intended for a kid)? Or a playpen or crib equipped with sex poses? Yurch... Yeah, that sort of thing should not be in SL.
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Qie Niangao
Coin-operated
Join date: 24 May 2006
Posts: 7,138
01-18-2008 09:13
From: Marianne McCann
After nearly two years as a kid in SL? I've heard 'em all.
This being the million-and-first similar thread, just gotta admire the composure. You and everyone else so far, really. If anyone ever looks back on how the forum comported itself during the resMod interregnum, they should be impressed with this one.

/me peels a gold star from the waxy paper and pastes it on the kid's copybook.
Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
01-18-2008 09:15
From: Ceera Murakami
But BDSM gear clearly made for child avvies (not just scaled to fit small avatars, but with hover text that clearly states it's intended for a kid)? Or a playpen or crib equipped with sex poses? Yurch... Yeah, that sort of thing should not be in SL.


Which is why the proximity rule, I s'pect.

Like I mentioned, a lot of it came from the Wonderland scandal which, at least at one time, had a sexgen in a box-like room in the middle of a playground-like area which also housed vendors for both child-esque items and sexual items. A set up a *reasonable person* (language I picked up at the governance office hours) might draw some fairly clear conclusions from.

Again, cuz I gotta add it, not what we're seein' from the OP.

Mari
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world :)" - Prospero Linden
Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
01-18-2008 09:20
From: Qie Niangao
Thank you for the report. We'll take it from here.

(Now, where did we leave that little ol' lady rent-a-cop?)


LOL Best... reply... ever!
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Strauss Ulderport
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
01-18-2008 09:23
From: Oni Horan
that avatar needs to be reported because it feels good, helping to keep SL a safe and good place for everyone. Isnt it better to remove one potentially offensive individual too much then knowing the person might still be out there offending god knows whom? who could bare that thought, it would be best to remove just about anyone who is even in the least bit suspiscious of being offensive in the future. we cant have such people in SL, where just about anyone is easily offended. people here with their childlike innocense arent able to deal with this stuff on their own and easily get scarred for life, they need to be protected by upright citizens like Caz Catteneo. and if you were reported unjsutified yourself and removed from the game, you shouldnt feel so bad about it since it is for the best interest of the whole community. you might be disapointed about it for a few moments, that is just natural, but very quickly you will realize how much better and safer a place SL has become without you for thousands of players, so it will give you a warm and cozy feeling inside. even if noone gives a damn, at least the player reporting you fels good and isnt that worth all the trouble?


Worst... troll (or ignorant person)... ever
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Strauss Ulderport
--------------------
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www.nighthallowslair.net
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-18-2008 09:27
From: Strauss Ulderport
Worst... troll (or ignorant person)... ever
Nah. I just read that as being really sarcastic.
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Brenda Connolly
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Join date: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 25,000
01-18-2008 09:30
From: Strauss Ulderport
Worst... troll (or ignorant person)... ever

If the post you quoted wasn't meant to be sarcastic, I agree with you. And it's frightening if someone did mean that seriously.
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
01-18-2008 09:35
From: Ceera Murakami
Nah. I just read that as being really sarcastic.


Me too. I thought it was a great bit of sarcasm. :-)

Mari
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world :)" - Prospero Linden
Jessica Elytis
Goddess
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 1,783
01-18-2008 09:36
I respect the OP for two things:

1) Wanting to protect children. RL kids that is.

and

2) ASKING about it here to clarify.

It's times like this where our knee-jerk reaction is to "save teh kiddies!!" and that's fine, but then we need to step back and look at it with a bit of common sense (which I think should be called "rare sense" these days).

In this case, with the data supplied, no, there's no reason to AR, nor even be upset.

The heated posts in this thread stem from idiots making ARs for no good reason. On this I have a question I'll ask here, because it pertains to the discussion (and I don't feel like starting a new thread):

Is there anything in the ToS/CS that penalises people for filing false/misleading ARs? Such as falsely reporting "ageplay" when there was none.

And if there is not, why not? Cause there darn well should be, imo. Not only would this help protect innocents from slanderous ARs, but might save LL looking through a few thousand bullsh** ARs per day.

~Jessy
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Brenda Connolly
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01-18-2008 09:36
From: Marianne McCann
Me too. I thought it was a great bit of sarcasm. :-)

Mari

I agree. I wish I could have posted it.
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Strauss Ulderport
Registered User
Join date: 3 Dec 2007
Posts: 326
01-18-2008 09:37
From: Ceera Murakami
Nah. I just read that as being really sarcastic.


With no emoticons it was hard to tell. Hopefully you are accurate. Then again remember dear old police lady... so... *chuckle*
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Strauss Ulderport
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Marianne McCann
Feted Inner Child
Join date: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 7,145
01-18-2008 09:49
From: Jessica Elytis
Is there anything in the ToS/CS that penalises people for filing false/misleading ARs? Such as falsely reporting "ageplay" when there was none.


I dun tink there is But the Governance meeting starts in 10 minutes in Kremer. You could always ask Zara an Michael ;-)

Mari
(Who will be off pestering at Meta's office hours)
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"There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary." - Lewis PR Linden
"If you find children offensive, you're gonna have trouble in this world :)" - Prospero Linden
Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-18-2008 09:56
From: Jessica Elytis
I respect the OP for two things:

1) Wanting to protect children. RL kids that is.

and

2) ASKING about it here to clarify.

It's times like this where our knee-jerk reaction is to "save teh kiddies!!" and that's fine, but then we need to step back and look at it with a bit of common sense (which I think should be called "rare sense" these days).

In this case, with the data supplied, no, there's no reason to AR, nor even be upset.

The heated posts in this thread stem from idiots making ARs for no good reason. On this I have a question I'll ask here, because it pertains to the discussion (and I don't feel like starting a new thread):

Is there anything in the ToS/CS that penalises people for filing false/misleading ARs? Such as falsely reporting "ageplay" when there was none.

And if there is not, why not? Cause there darn well should be, imo. Not only would this help protect innocents from slanderous ARs, but might save LL looking through a few thousand bullsh** ARs per day.

~Jessy
I agree. At least this person bothered to ask, and clearly their intention was good, even if it was misdirected.

Also, I wouldn't call any of the posts in this thread "heated". People may be disagreeing, but no one is calling names or slandering each other. yey are just making reasoned arguments supporting their views.

Someone who repeatedly files invalid Abuse reports, for any reason, will eventually be punished by LL for their actions. Not just on ageplay, but on any sort of reportable offense, from prim encroachment to violent assault.
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Kitty Barnett
Registered User
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 5,586
01-18-2008 11:34
From: Ceera Murakami
NO. In fact, when the Lindens ruled that sexual ageplay involving avatars that appeared to be minors was no longer tolerated in SL, they EXPLICITLY made it clear that it was not an offense merely to BE in the form of a child. The offense comes ONLY when that child avatar is used in a sexual situation.
When the ageplay restrictions were first introduced Liasons were telling people that any under-18 age reference (even if it's obvious that it's roleplay age) in a profile had to be removed. That was also part of the policy notecard that was passed around at the time.

*makes a mental note to ask the governance team at the next office hour and update the post with the response*
Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
01-18-2008 11:36
From: Kitty Barnett
When the ageplay restrictions were first introduced Liasons were telling people that any under-18 age reference (even if it's obvious that it's roleplay age) in a profile had to be removed. That was also part of the policy notecard that was passed around at the time.

*makes a mental note to ask the governance team at the next office hour and update the post with the response*

When you ask, just please make sure to ask about apparent avatar age. I think a lot of the confusion was caused by people just saying "age" and not clearly saying RL or SL.

/me is interested in hearing the response. Wish I could weasel out of work today..
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Graphicguru Gustav
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rather enlightening aint it?
01-18-2008 11:37
From: Caz Catteneo
I was in a store, when a child avatar walked past.
I looked at her profile and she belongs to a group called under 12 girls only
and young nudist
Where do i report this please.
Ask an ignorant question, and you just might get dozens and dozens of intelectual replies...rather enlightening aint it?
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Brenda Connolly
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01-18-2008 11:54
From: Graphicguru Gustav
Ask an ignorant question, and you just might get dozens and dozens of intelectual replies...rather enlightening aint it?

And not one mean spirited response. Pretty good, I say.
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Graphicguru Gustav
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01-18-2008 11:58
From: Brenda Connolly
And not one mean spirited response. Pretty good, I say.
Pretty cool, huh?
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Ceera Murakami
Texture Artist / Builder
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 7,750
01-18-2008 12:03
From: Kitty Barnett
When the ageplay restrictions were first introduced Liasons were telling people that any under-18 age reference (even if it's obvious that it's roleplay age) in a profile had to be removed. That was also part of the policy notecard that was passed around at the time.

*makes a mental note to ask the governance team at the next office hour and update the post with the response*
To be accurate, they were saying that you couldn't post something in your profile that could be construed as meaning that your PLAYER was under 18. Bear in mind thay they had just received a raft of bad PR from that German news story, in which he visited a "brothel" aimed at ageplay. So you can't say "Mandy really is 10 years old!", but you can say "Although my Player is certainly well over 18, at times my avatar, Mandy, will assume the form and demeanor of a ten year old child."

*points to the Linden quote in Marianne's sig.*

Lewis PR Linden later clarified that "There's nothing objectionable nor illegal in having a child-like avatar in itself and we must assume innocence until proof of the contrary."
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Winter Ventura
Eclectic Randomness
Join date: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2,579
01-18-2008 14:06
Problem with "proximity":

I have a child av, I also have an adult av. I don't use the child Av much anymore, only when I'm feeling very depressed (mostly because of this subject and Linden Lab's hamhanded policy making). I also have some 300 other avatars. 99% of the time in SL, I am an adult female (who is admittedly, not 7 feet tall). I also have a sexgen bed at home (which I have been known to use in adult form). So does this mean when I'm a child, I can never go home?

(to land.. I allegedly "OWN".. to items of furniture I "OWN"?)

The problem of course, is that it's subjective. HUGELY SUBJECTIVE.
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Imnotgoing Sideways
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Join date: 17 Nov 2007
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01-18-2008 14:28
From: Winter Ventura
...I also have a sexgen bed at home (which I have been known to use). So does this mean when I'm a child, I can never go home?...
I think it's less subjective since you're not putting yourself on public display as a Child next to the bed. It's a private space. You're not advertising of offering a service. You've set all the conditions to be fair. No subjectivity, you're not in the wrong.
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Mortus Allen
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 528
01-18-2008 15:39
From: June Oh
Is there a rule that there can't be under 18 Avatars?
Yes I know under 18s can not or should not join SL I compltely agree with that, and they should join the teenage version of SL.
I saw a young girl avatar the other day, the profile of the owner said they were female and the RL age. Nothing to idecate if in a sexual role, nor was it a sexual area.
Sadly because of what goes on in RL with children being sexually abused I feel we should not have child like avatars in SL. Of course I recall last year the TV reports of sexual abuse in SL by UK Sky News and the subsequent closure by Linden of the area due to sex with child like avatars by avatars who in RL were what was said to be perverts.
So if confirmed that Linden have a rule against child like avatars when we see one we should report. Just like we would if we found an under 18 in with an account. If no rule I suggest you contact Linden with a view to have one.
It is sad the bad guys take our freedom away from us, but that is real life these days.
Love
June


Ok, let me get this straight... Because a small percentage of children are abused RL, you want to prevent ADULTS from responsibly role-playing as children? LL does not have a rule against child avatars, at least not that they have yet clearly stated, their only rule is against child avatars being used in a sexual or abusive manner.
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