Inclusive Communities and Representations of Violence against Women

the line I draw is:

Does it affect a real person directly.

A role play situation doesn't affect someone physically.

Psychology is one of the soft sciences, it's hard to understand how the human mind works. Because each one works a little differently, there is no normal... or baseline to operate off of. One reason I still say it comes down to choice, some people ( less than 1% of the population has a hard time with self control in relation to certain things... now there are different levels of control of their urges too... some can sate them with images and role play vs acting them out for real. Others just can't control those urges... even with medications and help. And good luck getting help for some of those urges... you think a rape survivor has a hard time reporting it, try finding a shrink that will not have you committed if you tell him you need help with certain urges being near uncontrollable.)

That's great. But if you make a claim about me and can't provide a shred of evidence in support of your claim, you must expect to be exposed as a liar.

And a weasel, don't forget.

I was thinking more in terms of

Skunks are no longer considered part of the mustelidae.

Nevertheless, that's what I was thinking in terms of.

probably got banned for raising a stink.

Rock

PS last post, 3am here now, back to normal evenings with a new working week.

OK.

You make your points well, and I don't care to join in debating what is indeed a thorny problem. That bit about slippery slope arguments being presented as sort of Final and Ultimate just jumped out at me in an irksome way, so I decided to comment on that a bit.

</butting in>

The only wayt to compare crime statistics between countries with different populations is to look at the per capita numbers. Per capita...

Japan ranks 54th in rapes (0.017737 per 1,000 people) and 60th in murders (0.00499933 per 1,000 people).

The U.S. ranks 9th (0.301318 per 1,000 people) in rapes and 24th (0.042802 per 1,000 people) in murders.

There is more violent pornography freely available in Japan than the U.S., therefore the postulate that the availability of violent pornography leads to a higher incidence of rape and murder is refuted by the numbers.

I may no further claims as to what the numbers "prove" or do not "prove". I assert only that the argument of "More X leads to more Y" is rendered invalid the moment it is shown that in a local with "More X" there is actually "Less Y."

Source of figures: http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/cri-crime

I think there's a matter of perspective missing here. Can I get some examples of the absolute worst thing you've ever seen in Second Life?

We've gone from clumsy roleplay over badly animated poseballs to rape and murder statistics. That's a hell of a stretch.

Please, what's the worst, most gut curdling thing you've ever seen in Second Life? Was it really worse than Hannibal's escape from the Memphis jail in "Silence of the Lambs" or the "Singin' in the Rain" scene in "A Clockwork Orange"?

The only "extreme" I see is that someone coming to SL to find ultra-violence will be extremely disappointed.

Way back in the beginning of the thread there was talk of some sort of "compromise".

As it is, this "extreme" (and I use the term loosely) material is rare, and pretty hard to find in Second Life. The new Adult Content rules will limit it to private residences and Adult regions. It will be practically impossible to accidentally stumble across it.

This seems to me to be an acceptable compromise between holding the Stepford Memorial Day Bar-B-Que at the Waterhead Welcome Area and banning the material entirely.

You quote a person and then edit their quote to change what they said which is clearly a violation of sl forum rules. you then refuse to admit you did anything wrong.

I for one will be refering this to the moderators, hopefully others will too. Hopefully, since you can't follow the forum rules you will be removed.

The fact you refuse to even admit you did anything wrong, clearly shows you intended to discredit the poster by editing her words, rather than ingage in a intellegent discussion.

That above message 852 posted by Rock Vacirca, clearly is in violation of sl forum rules. I encourage everyone to report him to the sl forum modorators.

Quoting someone and editing thier words is clearly not what these forums is about.

OK, I have to respond to this. Nazis publicly advocate the the elimination of whole groups of people - we're talking murder/genocide. To equate Nazis with individuals who are privately exploring fantasies or ways to come to terms with their past, is disingenuous at best. Get real.

There are several Nazi groups in Second Life.

Like... wait for it...

http://world.secondlife.com/group/43b0f6f6-a5df-8eaf-3c3b-89475284576f

Betchya didn't see that coming.

He calls it a "debate," but how ever he refers to his bluster, there is no intelligence behind it.

The most "extreme" things I've seen in SL can't hold a candle to what can be found on cable TV, games like Grand Theft Auto, or the random surfing of the internet tubes.

The most "extreme" thing I've seen in any media recently... well, last night I watched "Schindler's List." I suppose I shouldn't say more about that at the risk of further Godwin'ing this thread... other than to say there's times when showing "extreme" things serves a greater purpose, and it'd be shame if society became so caught up in hiding away anything potentially disturbing lest someone be offended that films like that could no longer be made.

The worst I have been turned off by is a spam attack of hundreds of boxes flooding a sim with nigger and hitler stuff written all over them. That actually affected me in a way I didn't like.

I have seen piles of sexual concepts, some bizzare, and they don't worry me because they are to cartoonish or I am not into them.

A girl I know got a disturbing guy in her IM and showed me, that was mildly off.

Some freaky griefing trolls too have been off.

RL, I live in a rough area and the alcoholic or drug induced bashings & arguments people regularly fall into in our street really shit me off, I am just so sick of them, I have a friend who is frightened by the sound of them. These are graphic and ugly and they do drive me up the flipping wall. I have a thing about drunken people, I can't stand being around them in general.

Worst thing I've seen in SL was a tubgirl particle bomb.

That's low. Very low. And such a lack of consideration and compassion for a *woman*, you know, the very creatures so vulnerable and defenceless you feel the need to protect from themselves, is tantamount to abuse. Disregarding her unpleasant experiences and strength to hold opinions and desires by attacking her simply on the time she's been here - A rather nasty thing to do.

Just goes to show, the message isn't to help and protect people who are in a position of weakness, but to impose a very narrow viewpoint on everyone, irrespective of their "need" or desire for your protection. One could even go so far as to say you'd be doing it to feed your own ego and sense of self worth...

I have a few views on this subject, I am a survive of domestic violence so seeing anyone abused does not sit well with me. In SL the "victim" has to agree to this kind of treatment but why do they?
I am involved in the BDSM lifestyle in Sl and and RL and in both have found some women who feel as submissive they deserve to be treated as less than a person. In SL I have met a few women who want to be abused both "physical & emotionally " because they are victims of domestic violence so that is what they feel they deserve.
I feel that in the BDSM/D/s lifestyle the Top needs to take the time to find out if this is why the sub ( of either sex) wants the abusive treatment. If it is then help them find the assistance they need. Trouble is in SL most so called Tops have no idea and are not interested in the person but only about themselves. They have learned from bad porn movies and web sites
for help if you are in the position of being a victim then please take a look at this web site
http://www.lifeline-international.org/looking_for_help

Jezebella, you really need to get a grip. Japan also has far fewer robberies, car crime, and alcohol abuse than the US. Please explain how the availability of violent porn in Japan affects those?



This is simply not true. Major factors in the crime statistics in Japan, compared with the US relate to culture. They have much less gun crime, for example, because Japan has strict gun-controls. They also have much higher crime detection rates than in the US, this also deters would-be criminals (as does, paradoxically, the control the organised crime sydicates have over individual crime). The Japanese culture, where honor and group harmony are central to their lives, plays a huge part in the crime figures. Japan is quite densely packed, but there is a profusion of small police stations everywhere.

Some info on crime in Japan is here:

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html

Using Japan to illustrate statistics, to prove a point in the US, is just a non-starter, and Diamond makes a huge mistake in attempting to do so. It is way more complex than that.

All crime in Japan has shown a general decline since the 70s, is all this because violent porn and child porn are not illegal to possess?

Most of the crime statistics were culled from the 1990s, and times have moved on since then. Crimes against children were low, but consider that Japan only outlawed paying for sex with children in 1999, and possession of child porn is still legal. Grooming children for sex via internet chat rooms is still not banned in Japan. This may also explain why their sex-crime figures are low, a lot of what we ban is still legal there.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/asia-pacific/2209084.stm

If you want to assess the effect of the legal status of child porn in Japan, consider the huge amount of child prostitution that goes on there, compared with the US, if you must.

"Being among the technologically elite, Japan’s sex crimes in 2004 had a lot to do with technology. Many a youth, primarily female, were out there on websites offering themselves semi-anonymously for rent. Particularly in Japan, where picture phones and phones with internet connectivity have now long been around, the government has had a hard time keeping up with the technologically advanced youth. In the first six months of 2004 police made 371 arrests involving child prostitution. During the same period, 785 were apprehended in relation to dating websites. Of those, 221 involved high school girls and 182 from junior high schools. From September 13, 2003 Japan enforced a law banning such internet websites where young people under 18 offered themselves or if someone offers money for sex with a minor. One man was arrested for seeking minors for sex. One prefecture, Miyagi prefecture, reported that child prostitution had increased 800% since the enforcement of the anti-child prostitution and pornography law in 2000. "

Source: http://www.japanlaw.info/law2004/JAPAN_LAW_2004_SEX_CRIMES_SEX_CRIMES.html

Do you think that the numbers of schoolgirls offering sex for money could have something to do with the demand? And what factors would you say contributes to that high demand?

You might also want to consider the crime statistics in the developed world only, for a better comparison.

If Japan has the lowest set of crime statistics in the developed world, then the US has the highest, you might want to reflect on the reasons for the US holding that lofty position.

Rock

The original poster said this:



I was not comparing, merely pointing out that that the choices in SL are limited by the LL TOS and CS. I am glad that you agree with me, that some choices are not to be tolerated in SL. If I have made a mistake, and you are not agreeing with me on this point, then list the things that you think should not be tolerated in SL:

1. Being a Nazi and propogating Nazi material,

2. what else.....

and if Nazis shout 'free speech', 'free expression', you would reply with what, exactly?

Rock

I have just read the Guidelines, and the TOS, but could not find anything. Which forum rule exactly?

Rock

You started talking about creating the most extreme and sensationalistic group possible in response to someone who was talking about an individual choice in how they represent themselves. Being a man, woman, badger, duck or whatever has nothing to do with creating a group.



You are seeing allies where there aren't. You then continue your usual tactic of trying to make it look like anyone who doesn't agree with you is the next extreme. The flaw was in your leap to talking about creating Nazi groups. In following your past patterns, will you then imply Rem supports Nazis?

Is there a particular reason that you don't respond to me? Do I make you uncomfortable? Are my questions too difficult? Or have you been busy trying to figure out if voice changers aren't just the subject of bad CSI episodes about SL?

No Melodie, I do not feel uncomfortable responding to you, but I have had rather a lot of people to respond to in this thread, and rather a lot of research to do.

Just to get a firm handle on your position, could you explain to me why two consenting adults, who decide to create and use a nazi-killing-jew poseball set, in the privacy of their own nazi sim, saying, 'it ain't real folks, no-one is really getting killed here, get real!'SHOULD be banned.

But two consenting adults, who decide to create and use a misogynist-raping, torturing and killing-a woman poseball set, in the privacy of their own 'smack the bitch up sim', saying, 'it ain't real folks, no-one is really getting raped and killed here, get real!'SHOULD NOT be banned?

(whether either create a group for these activities or not, is irrelevant)

Is it your view that there should be TOTAL freedom to do whatever you like in SL, or do you feel that there are some areas that should be no-go, and if so, what are they?

Rock