My goodbye

Just my opinion - but good post Talarus. But still telling her to change and 'lighten up' without suggesting that the nastiness subside some in many of these threads is putting all of the owness on her and negating her point.

.

Aww.. let them keep waxing how bad some are and how good they are. My favorite posts are those.

And yeah.. what Amara said. Just because some of you don't know Rha well and want to make this a funeral/look how bad people are thread, don't expect that those of us who have reached out to Rha more then just today in her goodbye thread haven't spoken with her or do not care about her. She sees things from a odd perspective right now.. one that I hope she soon realizes was more feeling then reality by a long shot.

Keep on puffing yourselves up though.

So, if you had a friend that was feeling this way but you knew they would snap out of it eventually, do you enable them? Do you tell them goodbye and tell them they are right about what they perceive? I am not about to tell her bye. I won't tell her she is right that she is some kind of outsider. Why? Because that is what I do for a friend when they are wrong.

You that do not know her or us beyond some posts won't get that though. Have your wake and talk about how bad people are compared to how you would do things.. feed her sadness. Be sure and confirm all you can for her to ensure she leaves..

Talarus, you deserve a sticky. Thanks for coming into a friend's thread and telling her it may not be the way she sees it.

Aww c'mon Rha! I always read your post, and though I don't often get involved, you're among the people here that I appreciate.

I do fully understand how you feel though. However, the "clique" is so small axshully. I can count on one hand those that appear to feel the need to dominate the forums.
YOU are not alone. Let the bull*hi* roll off and surround yourself with the warm fuzzy of knowing that the people here that are good far outweight the asshats.

Um, who denies it?

<<<< total goof off that helps when he can but jokes around constantly. So?

As we cannot convince the adfarmers their behavior may be a bit wrong - the same goes for the forum clique. I guess as long as you all are having fun - status quo. Maybe she will take some happy pills and come back to you all.

.

Yes, we are the problem Lias. Fun is evil.. EVIL shit. Phear it.

Rha, with 4000 posts and counting, you have been an integral part of these forums for a long time. Don't let anyone chase you away. To the best of my recollection of your posts, I have always found you to be honest, from the heart, and refreshingly transparent. Clearly, you enjoy contributing to the forum. Continue to do so and try not to let some of the heated debates get the best of you. I hope you reconsider and continue posting. You fit in these forums just as much as everyone else.

In all the fun you have been having, you missed something. Rha has been hinting for some time she's about up to her ears with some of the bull**t gong on here. You obviously didn't see that, even though you think you are being funny and only wanting her to lighten up, you are actually doing exactly what she does not need at the moment. There is a time and place for everything..........but evidently you don't know when the time is nor the place.

This thread should point that out blaringly.......it doesn't. So enough said by me.

Wow thats a bit of a switch around.

This whole mess started over people telling but not convincing Marcel where/how he could sell his business. And now its about clique members being told but not convinced to behave a certain way?

Yeah but she was saying that stuff even before that Immortal thread began. Which was in April.

Yes, Peggy.. you know it all.

Since April? Wow.. I guess some people just refuse to take a hint.

Thank you, Colette.. but don't let facts interfere with people making themselves feel all superior.

They know all about what Rha needs and how the forum must run.

Mm hmm. It is not about Rha's self esteem.. it is all about a clique.

You people will use anything to make a point. Martyr Rha some more for your cause..

Um, many do, and many insinuate it. At the top of the last page, Colette seems to be denying it and there are others in this thread (In Colette's defense, I have never seen her take it to a personal level herself, which makes me confused as to why she tries to downplay the clique stuff). Most times this subject comes up, there are five or ten who poke their heads in and start deriding the OP (not in this case though apparently because you all LIKE her - so she is allowed to do the "I am leaving" thing without being torn to ribbons) and anyone who agrees with them. I've seen it dozens of times in the past two years.

I am not talking about joking around. I am talking about the boorish behavior. You've just given us several samples in this very thread. Are you going to cop out of responsibility some more, and tell us those were all joke posts too?

Being pointedly sarcastic to anyone who agrees with sentiments such as the OP's is not joking around. It's an attempt to bury cat turds by laying the blame at the feet of those who point out that there is a group of people who seem to delight in tearing down others through belittling and mockery, all the while slapping their knees and winking at each other and handing out back pats for supposed wisdoms.

You couldn't prove MORE that there is a clique when you allow this particular OP tons of latitude while ripping on those who agreed with her. It doesn't reconcile.

But yeah, it's all the fault of people like Lias and I, because we obviously are unhappy people and WANT to be outsiders. (I have seen such sentiments to nearly everyone who has complained about the crap that goes on around here.)

Not behave a certain way - just meter what they say and how they say it. Some are just using the forums to 'act out'. I am sure these same people do not go into meetings at their jobs and yell 'asshat'! and phuck you! across the board room. Why do they feel that this behavior is acceptable here then? It makes people feel bad to be called names and to be told their opinion is stupid. The 'cool kids' on the playground have taken over adult forums. They are jockeying for the most negative attention and do not care who they take down in their race for Forum God. When did forums go from being places people shared information to a place for desk jockeys to joke around and take people down?

I know Colette and I rarely agree but we never resort to nastiness in order to 'win' - we stay on topic and after a while we just stop responding to one another.

.

No matter what else, in the end, she is leaving over some words.

I haven't really seen all that much that I would consider "nastiness" in here. I guess maybe I am completely desensitized to it in general. In fact, I find most folks in here downright civil, if a tad blunt at times, but then, so am I. Social graces (especially for a Dragon ) take time and energy to ponder, like diplomacy. Most people don't take that time, either because they don't have it, or don't want to take it.

When you look at it from the outside, there are several options:

1) Change yourself; don't let it bother you, and continue on.
2) Try to change others; not gonna happen, really. There's not enough of an investment here for most people to work towards that kind of change, and so that's pie in the sky.
3) Leave; the option she chose (well, for now, anyway).

I don't doubt that it is as hard for some people to learn to adapt via choice #1, as anyone else in #2, but you have to also consider who has the most skin in that situation.

One of the things that people don't realize is that they DO NOT have to read anything in a forum. If you see something you don't wanna get into, then don't. No one is holding a gun to your head to read it. *shrug* Participation in a forum is 100% voluntary (which I understand is also the case with leaving totally).

Still with blinders on. Out of one side of your mouth you claim to be her friend and out of the other side you tell her that none of you will change and if she doesn't like - then enjoy her permanent vacation. My 'friends' bend a little more for me than that.


.

Well theres a couple of things:

Theres a fairly long history of "Anti-Clique" / "Anti-General Discussion" sentiments around here. I've always been pro-General Discussion even before 9/11/06 when they closed the old General down.

Also, one of the big critiques thrown at the group of people called the "Clique" is that they are extremely exclusionary. When in fact they aren't really. This contradiction had always annoyed me. It was this criticism that Rha was involved heavily in, she felt left out. Thus I guess its part and parcel when people started discussing it all. I didn't want to bring that all up but I guess others did.

And finally the "clique" and the "anti-clique" is dwindled down to a sliver of what it was, so I feel its nearly moot regardless.

OK.. I am going to try to address this as best as I can.

1. I am totally unaware of other goodbye threads that resulted in someone being torn to shreds. Links, please? I really would like to see it. Marcel posted a goodbye thread and some people called him out for his choice of how. Not everyone. Some people have called Rha out in this thread.. not everyone.

2. People will know when I am joking and I certainly do not cop out of stuff I say. I am pretty serious in this thread starting with some jerk who chose to use Rha's situation as a way to say "I eat the clique for lunch". Also I have addressed others who use it as a springboard to try to prove what is their view of the forums as fact.

3. Where is all the belittling of others? I can think of one person who is a one shot wonder at making comments to tear others down. The active people here don't tear others down for sport.. if they do.. put a link out. You can point to me in this thread but as far as I am concerned I am just calling people out when they are making statements I don't agree with. If that is boorish.. thems the breaks.

4. I give Rha no latitude. I make no excuse for her. If people want to agree with her that is on them, but I will sure point out that if they are really doing it for Rha they are doing her no favors. If they want to whine about some secret society of forum oppresors that is ruining the forums.. fine. They all have an ignore feature. I use it when I don't like someone. Works great.

5. Now, you and Lias WANT to be outsiders? Is that what you mean, really? So, you are setting yourself up as an outsider. I know I don't look at Lias or you who I don't know at all or anyone else in this thread as an "outsider". But if you are purposely setting yourself up as one, for what reason? So you can use it as an excuse to say there are those who are a clique you are not a part of? WTF? I hope I am missing something there..

Grow the fuck up people. There is no high school here. If there are people who joke/talk more then others that does NOT mean you are an outsider. Don't blame us for your personal self esteem problems people..

Do I deny there is a clique? Hell yes. Why? Because there are a shit load more people that are not whiners then there are of you saying there is some mass conspiracy to keep you an outsider.

Grow up.. high school is over. You are not being picked on anymore.

so now, it went from a couple of people who genuinely care about Rha trying to lighten things up, to a bunch of people who haven't said boo to her in months (or maybe even never) fighting with others over what is and what is not appropriate for her current state of mind.

she asked some people in PM, directly, to lay off. i guess that was intrepreted as an invitation to start some sort of 'i'm right, you're wrong' war.

i don't understand all you professional psychologists at all.

Well, to be honest, my first reaction to seeing public "goodbye" posts is like I said: Drahma Llama. I tend to categorize them right up there with "I am leaving and taking my 1.0E+38 guild members with me!", and public "welcome to my ignore/mute list!", among other more common emo moments. It's OK, I understand people have them, and sometimes, they are for genuine reasons but, more often than not, they are not much more than temporary "reactions" to a silly situation that someone has taken far too seriously.



So? No one is forcing you to read it. There's even an "Add this person to your ignore list" link in every person's profile, accessible by clicking on their name.

If it really is just a small group of people who are part of the problem for you, then 5 minutes of work, and you're golden. You never have to see/read their tripe again. Well, not that you ever had to in the first place, of course, but this just makes it easy for those OCD types.

Oh, and if you do add someone to your ignore list, don't tell him/her about it, ESPECIALLY in public. It really makes you look like an infant, complete with the accompanying "neener neener" gesture.

*shrug* I never claimed she was "my friend". I don't know her any better than I know 99.99999% of the rest of you. I didn't even know "she" was a "she" until this very thread. I am mainly speaking as a (mostly) disinterested third party, trying to interject some wisdom into the thread. Honestly, I skimmed through her OP, and skipped most of the responses; just responding to what it is turning into: people going after each other over disembodied voices.

Fact is, people will change if they want, but they rarely have incentive to. If someone wants to deny themselves to others over it, well, that's life. We'll just have to make do. I don't expect anyone to grieve or worry or miss me when I leave a forum, and the ONLY reason I would post a goodbye is for informative value only, not to make a point to or about the other forum participants.

In closing, to put this into perspective, I also don't consider you "my friend", either. Not because I wouldn't want to consider you as such, but I have yet to actually get to know the person. Your posts in a forum won't have a significant impact on that determination, either.

I've been sporadically reading and making posts here for awhile so I'm curious about who is and who is not in the clique. Could someone who has figured it out just post a list of clique members? I think you could do that without breaking any rules as long as you don't add negative connotations to it.

If I knew who comprises the clique I might have better luck understanding what people are talking about here.