Tolerance

Getting ejected and banned immediately is intolerant and stupid.

Getting asked politely to leave is not.. Now if someone politely asks you to leave because you are not in human or amazon form or not on you knees and in silks as the rules request and you decided to argue and be a pain in the ass.. then you get the boot.

.d

A badger wearing a shirt and shoes is still a badger, and thus still unwelcome. As would be a dog in a hat, I imagine.

In the first post Surty mentioned being ejected and banned - so no putting on a human form and returning.

We only have one side of the story, yes, true, but I find it very believable. If the Lindens wish to support this sort of thing, they really do need to let people know in the Showcase that not all avatars are welcome at all locations. Showcasing such locations really doesn't represent Second Life as the tolerant diverse place it is overall, and I think that's very sad.

I wouldn't worry about Chris. He's a completely unreconstructed redneck with uber libertarian views. Empathy not a strong suit in other words.

Michelle

To be fair to the club - I got ejected, I haven't been back to find out whether I have been banned.

best,

Surty....

As I understand it, the problem isn't "discrimination" or whatever you want to call it, the problem is that the OP was not told that there was a dress code, so to speak. Such behavior is bad for the business in question, because crossover of interest is very common in SL. Someone who would really enjoy the place (with its rules) could be turned away from it because they showed up in the wrong avatar unknowingly.

For example. My store is on a mature sim, but the store and the entire estate have posted "no visible bits" rules. If you can't do it in Wal-Mart without getting kicked out, you can't do it there. Of course people sometimes show up breaking the rule, some knowingly and others not. The standard procedure is an IM informing the individual of the rule. The vast majority of the time, the reply is "Oh sorry, I didn't know" and they comply. The only time someone is banned is if they blatantly refuse to respect the rules.

That's the standard procedure for all the businesses I'm familiar with. The "ban, THEN warn" policy is foolish at best.

I've just gone back to their island.

The stuff that wasn't rezzed when I was here earlier:

"Club requires formal dress": pass

"HUMAN SHAPE AVATAR ONLY" (sic): fail

ok, it hadn't rezzed when I turned up earlier, so I got booted. Fair enough if that is their policy, np. But back to my OP:

2. why would the lindens promote a club which itself appears to promote intolerance?

Have a good one, folks,

Surty....

Just curious, where were these rules available? Notecard upon arrival? Texture on the wall? Pop up message?

---
And the answer was just posted as I typed this.

I think it is only fair to let people get rezzed in before placing a boot firmly up their ass if the rules are on a texture..

Not being a Linden, I would guess that they probably didn't think it intolerant since we can all change our av shape in the blink of an eye. If, once your avatar was chosen upon registering for the first time, there was no posibility in changing it, then I suppose you could call it intolerant when not welcomed everywhere in SL.

Wow- I have arrived! I have been quoted for History

Agreeing still with OP- intolerance sux- we are all people- etc etc etc- OP_ I haven't been back to Frank's since that day and I won't ever- it is not much, but again- I'm the only one I have to answer to I wish you well.

Count me in as bitching then- and i don't even go furry- intolerance sux-

I've arrived back in the place now....Yes, on your way in if you are fully rezzed, there is enough of a warning that, if you're not a "human", then you're not welcome.

Sod em, there are much nicer places in sl than this, without any of the drama. I'm not "furry" or "human" or whatever, I just like meeting people and chatting. Crap like this isn't necessary - and the lindens shouldn't promote it.

best
Surty ...

Well the Lindens do promote it but I don't think the club shows intolerance. It's their land, their club, they can do whatever they want just as every other club can do what they want. My opinion is that if you really want to go there just follow their rules. If you have to stay a furry then go somewhere else. There must be like a bajillion clubs out there.

He wait a minute- nothing wrong with views and their being stated- i wd rephrase this as- "ok- Chris is a .... but ur views may differ"... see how PC that is?

You say intolerance.... I would say that LL is promoting a club known for its standards and a well kept atmosphere.

That place has always been known for what it is. It's been around for over a year and a half that I personally know of, as I am originally that old.

If I wanted fancy ritzy classic dancing music, mood type place, that place was THE place to go. People went that for what it was and go there to expect Humans dressed Nice, in Tux, ladies in there gorgeous flowing dresses ect..

If they did not have the standards that they do, then they would not be known as they are and ergo promoted as they are. It's that simple.

For instance ... you don't see Cinderella all deck out in bling and pants saggin off her ass going to the Ball to meet her prince right? Wouldn't be all Fairytale and magical if she did. Would ruin the whole point of the place!! Think about it.

So do not claim intolerance. It's a simple matter of that particular place's set standards, be cause not only is it Your world, Your Imagine, but it IS theirs as well.

So just because you would not care about whom rolled up into your "set themed" establishment, doesn't mean the next person won't.

Besides you would no more want someone giving you grief for being what you are in your own home would you not? No, so find something else to nit pick apart and twist to complain about. Because no offense, but that's all it really feels like what you are doing. Trying to make something out of nothing.

Seriously. The club rules clearly state "must be in human form". That means you can't be in your furry avatar. Sorry, but complaining about getting ejected for not being human is like me complaining about getting ejected from A Woman's Touch 2 (women's only club) because I turned up in a male avatar.

Now, if you had been told that you could be there by someone, and then ejected (or not even allowed in), then you'd probably have a valid complaint.

They should have that information in written information of the showcase.
If it was acceptable it should have been included in writing where it didn't
take information to rezz or not be seen.
/FD imagines endless 40 tiny badgers as fast as they can ban showing up with signs, saying "Intolerance shouldn't be showcased!" on all of the local 6 pm SL News stations.

Hi Sredni,

I have no problem with clubs/regions whatever having a "no xxxx" policy, that is their issue, not mine.

My original question was:

2. why would the lindens promote a club which itself appears to promote intolerance?

best
Surty ...

I'm not sure they are promoting a place that shows "intolerance". They promote a place that has particular standards. They didn't eject you because of who you are. They ejected you because you violated one of their clearly stated rules. If you went back in your human form wearing a tux, they would not eject you. I'm sure you could even sneak having a neko tail, if that's how you roll.

For the record, I have been ejected from Bogarts for wearing jeans and a wifebeater (I was map hopping and ended up there by mistake). I didn't make a big stink about it, since I did see the "must be in formal clothes" sign before I was given the boot.

Now I can tell you *real* intolerance. I had a bit of an opinion clash with the owner of a well-known sim and was banned, simply because I did not agree with the person's viewpoint. Well that, and I told her never to contact me inworld again, since I had stated my opinions in the forums a month or so before she found me inworld to bitch at me about what I had written.

Which is dramatic, but possibly not promoted on the lindens' showcase?

regards,
Surty...

[sorry sredni, there was no call for my last post]

Oh, you can bet they are. It's a huge laggy sim that a lot of people are really into visiting. I should check to see if they are showcased, just for shits and giggles.

I like Chris's posts - I like even more that I live on a different continent to him and that we have strict gun laws over here

regards.
Surty ...

Okay, I'm at Bogarts now. Apart from the greeter that says "appropriate attire and no children", and a sign that says "no nudity, swearing, bad language, no cheating in contests, and no soliciting" I have yet to see anything that says "human avatars only".

Shrug. Maybe they are being intolerant.

It's over the door, on the way in, Sredni - you missed it too.

best
Surty ....

Based on what you said, it appears that somebody in that region is tripping out on ban hammer powers & ejecting avatars on site without cause, warning or notice is just a lame form of griefing; the sim owner should consult the Showcase FAQ and realize that kind of act doesn't cut it. Even if the sim is a RP and avatars need to have a certain shape or dress, a showcase sim should state that all are welcome for a look, but actual RP participants must abide by certain rules, etc.

On the other side of the coin, I don't expect my tiny bird avatar to be accepted into every situation (e.g. ballroom dancing) and I'm not going to fly around with a chip on my beak.

Awful lot of interesting back-and-forth in this thread over definitions of intolerance vs. high standards/dress codes and such, most of it well-reasoned on both sides, but all that aside it does strike me as particularly stupid to summarily eject avatars for breaking rules which probably haven't rezzed yet. If it's so terribly important to their atmosphere then install a dialog box notifier or a notecard giver at the landing point for god's sake.