Tolerance

QFT

Perhaps I'm partial to badgers, but truly, what's so offensive about them? If it's not "in theme", then simply ask the person to put on a human avatar. If she doesn't like the theme, then she may leave.

But boot and ban? That's just silly. Save that for someone who is griefing or being otherwise belligerent.

Spot on, MarkByron - that really makes a lot of sense.

The way I see it - we're all role playing to a degree in here, whether we are furry/human/child/whatever. There just happens to be a lack of tolerance for anything other than "human" RP.

And really - if this sim wants to restrict access only to include 8ft tall avs with tux's - I have no problem with that, the only question I have: why does LL (apparently) promote such intolerance?

rgds
Surty ....

Linden might not realize this 'showcase' sim is imposing avatar restrictions much less dropping immediate ban hammers on arrival to the sim. Send an email to [email]showcase@lists.lindenlab.com[/email] and ask the editors about it.

Will do - thanks for the address (to reiterate, and to be fair to the sim owners - when I went back I found I had been ejected, not ejected and banned - still sucks though - mainly because I look *so cool* in my badger av....their loss)

best rgds
Surty

I won't argue the place has the right to say who is welcome and who isn't, but since it is showcased, I can't help but wonder what that sort of treatment would do to someone new to SL who doesn't really understnad the laws of the land yet.

I don't see a problem with it. I've also been to some places that booted me cause I was "human" avatar that was "furry" only. which I just laughed, I guess I should have showed up in a dog catcher avatar complete with choke chain and patty wagon

Thing is everyone has right to run how they want it. So it's a showcase with rules, so what follow rules if ya wanna go, is pretty simple.

Well, there's nothing in the parcel description that says human-only..

i haven't read through the whole thread so someone might have already said this... but..

i think "Showcase" places ought to be PG and Tolerant of all avatars that fall into the PG theme.

SL has a default "furry" avatar right for the newbies to use (several now, i think). So it seems absurd (to me anyone) for the Lindens to showcase (ie. send newbies) to places that will immediately ban them for using one of the default SL avatars.

Ya know?

if the place wasn't a Linden Showcase i'd have no issue with what the place did...

I'm a kid av. Should I complain about discrimination?

Well, I won't. My deciding to be a kid av is fundamentally no different from their decision not to allow kid avs; it's a personal decision that has to do with setting a certain atmosphere. Sometimes my atmosphere can intersect with another's with no problem at all; sometimes, they are simply incompatible.

OK, fine it is technically intolerance - but "intolerance" is an emotionally-loaded word, designed to evoke indignation. You cannot fairly equate a person's refusal to admit someone who CHOOSES to dress like a badger (or a kid) with refusal to admit someone based on something they cannot control, such as race or gender; however, using the word "intolerance" in the manner in which you are does make that association, and I believe it's a fallacious association.

You complain that the mere existence of such a place destroys the concept of "Your World, Your Imagination"; however, what about this person's world and imagination? Say he imagines a place reminiscent of a 1920's grand ballroom and as realistic as it can possibly be, with people in tuxedos and dresses dancing to Martini In The Morning, and someone wearing a big fur Disney-character-esque suit simply doesn't belong in that atmosphere. So, this person is now evil, because he dared to imagine something that just happens not to include furries, or children, or adult humans in emo gear? "Your World", as long as it's everybody else's world too, and "Your Imagination", as long as it's the same thing I imagine?

Yes, by insisting that themed builds which exclude avatars that disrupt the theme should be disqualified from any kind of recognition of quality or popularity, you're essentially disallowing any venue owners' rights to control access based on anything avatar-related. According to your logic, if someone disrupts an NCI class by using an avatar which makes him look like a giant schlong, the instructor should not be allowed to eject him unless he directly interferes with the teaching of the class itself.

Sometimes making choices means disqualifying yourself from options you might've had if you had chosen differently. In real life, if I chose to walk around wearing my oily, greasy, well-used auto mechanic uniform, I must expect to be prevented from entering a four-star restaurant. Is that restaurant elitist; intolerant of my right to dress like an auto mechanic all day, wherever I go? Should I write to the paper that rates it as the best restaurant in the State and complain that the rating should be retracted because they don't allow people wearing oily mechanic's shirts?

Dakota, i know you're responding to someone specific, but.. don't you think that if Linden Lab is "Showcasing" certain places to send newbies to, those places should be tolerant of all the default avatars Linden Lab gives newbies to use??

Linden Lab does not give newbies any pre-made child avatars (i'm a child av too)... they do however give newbies pre-made furry avatars to use, several.

It seems odd the Linden Lab would essentially tell a newbie "here wear this" and then.. "And check out these places".. only for some newbie to do just that and get kicked out.

If the place wasn't a Showcase.. again, i'd have no issue.. but.. since it is...

Is the ringtail avatar still a default? I think it's missing from the library now. (O.o)

I hope it is missing. That thing was hideous and required me to buy many new avatars for the new furs that wandered in.

looking it up showcases does highlight sims but sim owners can still set the rules, such as there was an adult sim showcased that had stripping, etc.

there was also a furry land featured a while back

so now we get a human only place


in the words of artie lange... waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

even lindens call default human avatar a normal avatar, so toss the default normal avatar on and go, then put your costume back on when ya leave.

I use costumes sometimes, but there are places that ban their use even a couple of the showcases ban costumes like wall-e avatar or a crazy dino avatar. But I know if i want to go to a certain sim then I have to use their norms.

Just like RL i wont wear some costume or speedos to a nice resteraunt, I dress normal. it's common sense.

there is no such thing as tolerance anyhow its just a made up politically correct word so people can attack each other over topics.

dont like a certain lifestyle OMG YOUR INTOLERANT BIGOT!
oh grow up, this "group think" aspiration of the politically correct bunch is sickening and disgusting.


of course this only makes people point and scream OMG INTOLERANT.

-grin-


funny though hehe

makes for great entertainment though.

Yep.........but it's be bandwagon jumpers on that are more intertaining for me.

"OMG, you poor devil. Someone 'wronged' you poor butt. Let's right this dastardly display of intolerance.........let's demonstate our solidarity for all those who are so wrongly treated in SL"

Funny.......and pathetic at the same time.

I saw it at public help island a couple of days ago.

It is one avatar I've managed not to acquire.

well i started to read the replies and decided not to I think a badger would be awesome and would like to see a picture. I personally dont understand the hate toward so called no human avatars, were all rl human behind any thing we want to be in sl. But some take it way to serious and forget that part of sl. And ya know lol the ones that made that rule most likely have a tail in their inventory somewhere heehee. I have a ranch parcel and your welcome there anytime would love to see a badger.

Well, if anyone wants a freebie badger, there's a few down at the Caledon Oxbridge newcomers' portal, along with some bunnehs and anthro cougars. All very properly attired in Victorian clothing, of course.

My place isn't showcased but you are welcome to come see it Surty no matter what form you decide to wear. Badger, human, even a ringtail all acceptable.

The only badgers I ever see in my neck of the woods are pancaked on the road or hanging off my bullbars.I and my farmer friends think that,s the best place for them.
The barking mad animal rights brigade have prevented a much overdue cull of this now top of the pecking order brock.Since we snotted bears, wolves and the rest of the large carnivores that kept this TB ridden brute down it runs amok.Proper country folk put them in the same category as foxes,rats and grey squirrels ie: vermin and should be dealt with accordingly.
I think you got off light with an eject,it could have been a shotgun blast up the rear.

BB eats road kill

You should notify LL about this, don't forget to point out they have a diverse staff.

I'm tempted to show up and throw my reputation around.

I don't see a problem if it's a human themed sim, no more than if a Stormtrooper AV started hanging around in a Pirate sim.
Many Furry sims don't mind people but many people sims don't mind Furries either.
I would just swap to an alt to go to places like that as I don't have a human AV

Sweethearts jazz welcomes everyone as long as they adhere to PG guidlines.

Thanks, Strife,

as suggested above, I have emailed the showcase team - if they do something about it, then fine, if not, I'm not losing any sleep!

regards
Surty

(I'm not dealing with your #2 question here, about why Linden Lab promotes this place.)

I would say that I don't see the *problem* as intolerance so much (if the club is intended to be an immersive 1940s-style place and non-human avatars will detract from that, then it's the owner's decision, just as many roleplay sims have rules for no child/furry/tiny etc avatars). The problem is one of attitude and lack of communication, viz:

If the rules were given in a one-off automatic greeter message, and appeared immediately in local chat, then you could have said right away to the hostess, "Sorry, I'll change into a human av," or you could have teleported away immediately.

If the rules were given in a notecard on arrival then, barring SL borkiness and assuming the notecard isn't one of those 'rules' ones that takes ten minutes to get through, you could have done the same thing.

But, from what I gather from your later posts, the rules were on a texture - presumably at the entrance to the club? Depending on the speed of your connection, that texture could have taken several *minutes* to rez clearly enough to read. Since it hadn't rezzed, I'm assuming you walked right past it, and the hostess probably assumed you had ignored it.

Did she kick and ban you within seconds of telling you the above? Or did she give you time to explain you hadn't seen any rules? Did she give you time to say, "Oops, sorry. Let me change," or "OK, I'll leave then,"?

You said that 'within seconds' you were ejected and banned. It seems to me that this club needs to revise its rules and warnings policy. Perhaps set the club landing point a little further away and auto-give a notecard to first-time visitors, so they stop and read it before trying to enter the club. Or perhaps they should auto-greet (again, simple to make it a one-off per new avatar, so regular visitors don't get spammed with it) stating the rules in open chat. Or even do what I've seen in some places: build a lobby for the club past which no avatar can go *into* the club until they have accepted a notecard containing the rules, and clicked 'yes' to say they have read them.

I don't doubt they've had their fair share of griefers, but they should allow time for people arriving to read and respond to the rules. The hostess that ejected you should have asked you to leave the premises first, explaining they have a 'human avatar only' rule, and asked if you wished to change into such an avatar. She didn't give you a chance, and *that* is a bad way to treat potential customers, and a bad way to run a business.

If I were basing a decision whether to visit this club or not on your post, I would not stay away because of its intolerance; I would stay away because of its bad attitude toward potential customers.

Bogart's is in showcase because either a Linden went there and thought it was cool or someone reccomended it and they agreed it was cool. It's not there because it only allows human av's and I doubt very much that was even part of the thought process in putting it there.

The same as they had a store in there with a shed load of "models" that boosted traffic. The store wasn't in there because of all those models that artificially inflate traffic, it was there because it was an impressive looking store.

If Bogart's has a dress code or wants humans only then that's their choice, they're not the only place to enforce such policies. Surely a better way of dealing with the dress code is to point people in the direction of where they can obtain the appropriate attire instead of just ejecting people though.