Blake Sea

When will I be able to sail TO the Blake Sea from somewhere in Corsica or Gaeta without having to depend on the goodwill of six dozen random landowners who own parcels I have to sail through to get there?

Lindal I agree with you 100 percent

You did exclude my "if" from your quote. That single word changes the whole sentence.

I have spoken with the Keiria Linden and she said she is going to investigate the issue.

As far as your question.. "DOES Hollywood Airport have the authority to issue and enforce these rules?" I think that is what we are all questioning and expressing opinions about.


Also you are not being asked or encouraged to get into any kind of debate about anything by anyone here as far as I can see. I certainly know I have no interested in any kind of debate as I am very comfortable with my opinions and do not really need anyone else to validate or adopt them. If I seemed to challenge you in anyway personally was not my intent.

Like you I look forward to the Lindens response until then my response to the Hollywood note card is .. "Bite Me" I will fly, sail, motorboat, and swim as I please in the Blake Sea.

I am interested in hearing more about these "sanctions".

The words of Keira Linden were just conveyed to me.

"Blake Sea regions are open to the public, and available for the enjoyment of all residents.

MarkTwain's rules to not apply to the Blake Sea. The rules or the Blake Sea are the same rules as outlined in the Terms of Service. They are mainland regions. So ignore Marks rules about the Blake Sea.

Thank You.

Disregarding the "by whose authority" bit for the moment....

The rules/guidlines above are sensible.
Those water sims are only OpenSpaces.
If sailing boats are engaged in a race over a fixed course, then it is considerate to aviod the sims that the race is passing through, and especially the start and finish line areas.If people are just sailing or flying about randomly, then why not allow the underpowered sims to those in a competitive race as far as possible as they are passing through? It's just simple politeness.

In RL it is accepted practice to give way to racing boats, even if the standard 'rules of the road' would not give them the right of way.
It happens in RL that some jackass with money but no knowlege of maritime rules/laws will buy a motor boat and create mayhem through ignorance.
I can see that this could be a big problem in SL sailing as just about anyone can rezz a fast motor boat with gawdknows what amount of scripting and prims. The problem in SL would be the script and prim load more than near misses.

It should be that if someone is unwittingly causing problems for others involved in an event, that they should be advised ot the issue.
The potential problem if resident groups do the warning is that the message might be delivered in 'snotty' mode. - which would not be helpful at all.


Add:
And while I was typing that, Jim posted above.
That Linden response is probably the most sensible one. To much drama otherwise.
The sailing organisations do have their own sailing areas. Still, it would be nice if people showed consideration for each other in those underpowered sims of Blake Sea.

I wonder what made this MarkTwain fellow even think he had the right to impose rules on public Linden land (or water, as it were), or what convinced him that Blake was a "designated water recreation area".

Things like avoiding racing boats are common sense. But when you try to push people into acting a certain way, they tend to push back.

Perhaps MarkTwain feels he has a right to regulate the behavior of pilots who use his airport, which is another matter.

Possibly a side-issue, but all the ones I saw had a 3750 prim limit, not 750.

I'm not positive but I think the majority of the Blake Seas are actually homesteads rather than OpenSpaces. Given the revised avatar and upcoming script limits to these "lighter" sims, I don't think that an openspace would support the heavy script loads of vehicles such as sailboats and the potential for a large regatta of boats to pass through with crew etc.

Was camming around while sailing right now and have been looking under water some. Just came across a free swimming Hammerhead Shark that was owned by Governor Linden.

Sling, I agree. I said up front that Twain's guidelines seem reasonable. I just objected to the idea that he issued them as if he had some special authority to make and enforce rules. Being a sailor (SL and RL both), I understand about marine right of way rules. And regardless of right of way, I always try to give other craft a wide berth.

I don't really buzz dinghys at Mach 2 for fun...I just said I was going to because some asshat told me I couldn't. I'm ornery that way.

Well I am definitely impressed!

Balboa Point down to Sugar Reef, over by Saint Brendan and stopped at Caneth. One sim crossing crash at Sugar Reef at start of strait was only hiccup.

There are many places to fly and sail in Second Life. There is the Lost Sea over where SZ Designs' Sail Loft is in Caddo. One of the most beautiful spots in SL. There you can rez your boat and enjoy some great sailing in over 28 open Linden sims and visit the huge islands there. You can rez your aircraft at Alex Zeiler's "Cass Regional Airport" and fly over those same 28 protected sims and the huge mainland.

There is Nikki Wilder's place, Wilder Skies which has a number of sims and great combat and dogfighting. There is Banco Milestone's Balsa Airport with 17 sims. There is Cubey Terra's "Abbott's Aerodome" which offers so many free recreation activities as well as a number of free vehicles. There is Mifune Thibaud's fabulous dogfight sim and seaplanes over in Aeronautica.

There is my airport in Hawkside with a 200 meter runway abutting 32 protected Linden sims. In Hawkside you cann rez your boat or plane and enjoy those 32 protected Linden sims. We also offer many aircraft you can fly for free and you can get a simple plane for free. Come on over and hop in a helicopter or a plane without spending a single $Linden and fly and land where you want at any altitude you want. No having to leave or fly the other way should a group of sailboats be on the water.

Though it is true that the combined area of Blake Sea and the USS sim makes for the largest "clean air flying available" in SL since the Blake Sea is open to all and there are many other large open areas of 30 or more sims to fly and sail in in SL I do not think the serious aviator will put up very longl with all of the USS's restrictions on aircraft.

Yes there are many enjoyable events, beautiful places, and wonderful people in the United Sailing Sims but in my opinion it is a place that has so many rules and so little opportunity for anyone other than the estate owners that I personally feel restricted there.

I thank the Lindens for providing us with Blake Sea though I think them moving the USS sims there gave USS estate owners an unfair advantage over all the other commercial concerns in Second Life. I hope they open up more areas like Blake Sea.

I thank Linden Labs for their prompt response and making it clear that Blake Sea is open to the public as well as the fact that MarkTwain's authority does not extend beyond those sims he personally owns So go enjoy Blake Sea free from all the rules and restrictions listed in the Hollywood Airport note card.

Hi yah Jim. Thanks for all exposure. A PR agency could not have done it better. Grin.

That notecard you quoted is indeed the one that I distribute at my brand new Hollywood Airport. The only thing missing is a photo. Well, folks can come to Santa Catalina sim and see for themselves.

The RULES there in are the rules that "I, me, myself" adopted as sensible guidelines for aviators that enjoy the six airport network (and growing) within the United Sailing Sims. It's so cool to have a real network of places to fly between and NOW our customers can fly away from the USS airways to the thousands of sims that make up Nautilus, the Korean and Corsican mainlands.

Those rules were created the very day you read that notecard. It was my first draft and I am now in the process of convincing the owners of the other airports in the USS to adopt them as guidelilnes to share with their customers as well. So, yah, its brand new. But it isnt from the Lindens, it isnt the offical policy of Governor Linden sims and it isnt the official policy of the Blake Sea, ahtough it should be. GRIN. I never dreamed that my guidelines for my privately owned airport would in a manter of hours be made famous by your post. Wow.

In hindsight I should not have said those guidelines extended to the Blake Sea because they official don't . I never dreamed that it would be interpreted as LL policy. You honor me with way too much power Jim.

Ok sooo we have pages and pages of your response to my mistake. Let me tell you what the FACTS are.

It is true that there will be SOME level of resident involvement in the security of the Blake Sea. But that security will only be to prevent immediate disruption of ongoing regattas. And no, it will not extend to banning. For organized sailing and racing events by the sailing clubs of SL LL has created a group called "Blake Sea". It is true that I will be a functionary in that group as well several other SL residents. Our role will be limited to providing security to regattas which are held in or pass thru the Blake Sea. For several years we have been able to provide normal kinds of racing security on our private sims (as you would find in many RL regattas). Because LL wants to see those great events in the Blake Sea as well they are working on (notice present tense) what limited roles are going to be extended to SL skippers to protect the boats in a regatta from typical issues like unknowing residents sitting in boats, and other things that could disrupt the races. This is the sort of stuff any reasonable person might expect to see at an organized sporting event.

So, the Blake Sea is Linden water. The Blake Sea has no rule from LL about how high airplanes should fly. I have removed the reference from my notecard to prevent further confusion. Those rules are common sense guidelines to prevent easily avoidable accidents between planes and boats. Beyond that, in RL there are rules that keep us from abusing one another (planes buzzing buildings, home, boats, etc). In a place like SL where people sometimes lack the social restraints they have in RL to respect their neighbors I felt such rules would only be fair to those many many sailors out their that have made the United Sailing Sims what they are.

I personally am looking forward to cooperating with all the great folks and content providers that have made the aviation community in SL exceptional.

So once again, thanks Jim for the great PR, and sorry the deal we were working on didn't pan out.

Jim, I have known you for over 2 years, and kinda gave you more credit than this....you started the conflagaration of rumour and speculation in this thread by supposition, with no apparent endevor to find out any fact..... you seemingly deliberately flog the commercial aspect of the blake sea and hollywood airport.... well...facts....hollywood airport is a full sim, with 5 rental residences (called hangars) at $45 a month...do the math..that doesnt even pay tier. The Blake Sea, and the USS sims are in no way a commercial endevor..they are a huge financial loss for the USS owners, one that they happily accept for the good of sailing within second life. The other groups mentioned in this thread...milestone etc ARE commercial companies...purely commercial.... Get off the bottom line, because that is bright, flaming, red for the USS owners. MTW covers it pretty well in his post, and from what I can see, it is the only post here with any real FACTS rather than flame fanning speculation and supposition.

MTW has pretty much cleared up the issue, but the people who had a fit about it missed another important point: that notecard came from MTW's airport. This means that he is requesting that aviators who wish to use his airport exercise basic courtesy in Blake Sea and in the rest of the USS. Such a request is well within the rights of any landowner, and many other places in the USS and in all of SL have similar policies. For example, I can create a clause on my land that states that anyone who wants to use my land as their default home is not allowed to grief people anywhere in SL. This covers not only land owned by LL, but also land owned by third parties. I can enforce this clause by banning anyone who I see griefing from using my parcel, or even visiting it. Similarly, MTW can ban people who fail to exercise common courtesy in Blake Sea from using his airport if he wishes (mind you, I'm not making any statement about whether or not he will, just that he could if he wanted to). Next time, think these things through before you start creating mayhem on the forum. If it's hysteria you're after, go visit Fox News' site or something...

Hi Argent,

Like most of us I am very happy about the Blake Sea. However there is something even more exciting than the Blake Sea coming out of this arrangement.

When Jack Linden apporached the USS about the possibilities of our helping develop sailing is SL, the Blake Sea development was but one aspect of what grew out of the deal. Over time the USS leadership will work with LL to expand the quality of sailing throughout the grid. The Blake Sea and events there are partof it. Nautilus sailing development is part of it. But the BEST part for me is that we are going to be working thru the grid giving advice and recommendations to LL where to spend energy and resources to improve sailing in the mainlands. We will address bottlenecks, work arounds etc. We have no promises that all recommdations will be implimented but the very fact they want us to do that is meaningful.

Nothing please me more to know there will be involvement by the Lindens to see that all Second Life residents can use the Blake Sea in a way that respects others doing the same.

Linden Labs has assured me that Blake Sea rules are under the TOS not the rules of the USS. Those rules make great sense to promote sailing in the USS and as I stated there are many wonderful events, beautiful places, and wonderful people in the USS.

I have accomplished all I intended to accomplish at this point now that Mark has removed his comments from the note card that gives people the impression that the excellent rules established for sailing in the USS extend beyond his estate to public mainland.

As far as the success of Hollywood Airport I hope it is very profitable. I want all people to prosper and succeed in measure to their efforts. If it were any different I would not mention the names and airports of others I could consider competitors in my posts here or the sims where those commercial concerns are located.

Mark has made posts that he has made no profit from his estate. I have no reason to believe he has lied. My hope is that every individual who works toward a goal reaches it and that all people have an equal opportunity. This is a new time in history that has filled people with hope and respect of their fellow man. A time when people desire equality for all people regardless of social, economical status or the color of their skin. A time when diversity flourishes.

As far as Mark saying he is sorry for the deal he and I were working on not turning out conveys a false impression to people. It is as misleading as Mark's note card stating his estate rules extending to the public mainland. Mark's offer was refused as the USS offered very limit opportunity for me personally. As someone that makes an income in through selling and reselling a wide range of aviation products why would I expect to prosper in an estate that is not flourishing financially and places so many restrictions on the use of aircraft? I informed many others involved in SL aviation that I had come to the conclusion that USS was great for sailing but felt restrictive with all the rules about what you can and can not do in your aircraft. Many were aware I had no interest in whatever Mark's offer may have been before I told them I had no interest.

The USS is a great place in many regards to live. All my posts are about is expressing my opinion that all residents of SL can enjoy Linden public land without estate owners with commercial or limited interests having authority over how people us that public land. As I said the Lindens have assured me and others that this Mark's rules only apply to the land he personally owns. They said they received many questions of concern about Mark extending the rules of his estate into public Linden land.

Also I respect anyone that feels differently than me. That is what makes the world such a great place is diversity not conformity. I know how these forums go all to often. To often they turn into personal attacks instead of focusing on the issue. For me the issue was an estate owner implying that his authority extended beyond his private estate into public land. That those that enjoy aviation would have to observer his rules that favor his sailing interests in protected Linden sims that are mainland. Bottom line is no one should interfere with others enjoying open public Linden land and that includes and estate owner extending the rules that suit their personal interests into public mainland.

I have accomplished what I had hoped to accomplish. Those that feel a need to flame me feel free to do so. Those that have a different twist on that feel free to express it.

May all of you equally enjoy the Blake Sea and may all you including Mark prosper in your commercial efforts.

Good, because I'm not interested in sailing in open ocean... I want to sail in SL the way I sailed in RL as a kid, and that means exploring in a boat. And the bottlenecks throughout the grid have pretty much killed that for me, even without the sim crossing issues that make flying less than enjoyable. I opened a JIRA for one such case, perhaps it could be turned into a meta-issue where bottlenecks can be collected.

http://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1470

Look guys, re MarkTwain, can we just say roleplaying for his group, there really isn't much wrong in him laying down rules for all of SL for his members. Don't take it personally as if they were rules directed at you.

Edit: posted this before I saw MarkTwain's reply

Fancy suggesting that they move Tursi! You swine, you!!!
Tursi links in the whole passage along the Southern coast of Corsica. I've put in my spoke in the Jira.

I'm curious as to what, exactly, this means. Suppose I'm one of these "unknowing" residents sitting in a boat, completely oblivious to the fact that somebody somewhere has planned a regatta whose course passes through my position, and for some reason they can't simply go around me and I HAVE to move. Do these Linden-granted "limited roles" mean that your regatta security will be able to compel me to move out of the way on public Linden land?

I have no problem moving out of the way of an organized, previously-announced (in a public venue), Linden-approved (not just Linden-allowed, but specifically *approved*) event - the Blake Sea is a big enough place, after all. A regatta sounds like fun. I might even be interested in participating, if my vessel type doesn't exclude me; even if I can't, I'd love to watch. But I would not take kindly to someone with an attitude threatening to eject me from public land because he's arbitrarily decided to have a parade that day, and I expect most people wouldn't, either. Just something for the Planning Commission to consider.

I love the Blake Sea and have made much use of it, truly. It's great to have enough open water to be able to stretch my lady's legs without worrying about smacking into some gaudy prim island or ban-line wall. But I'm a little reticent to accept that there are people who will have priority, or "more rights" than I do, in these public regions. Until a Linden tells me otherwise, I'm afraid I'm going to have to pretend that nobody can tell me what to do there.

OK, I've removed that, and changed it to a meta-issue to collect places where bottlenecks need to be filled.

Dakota it is great to see you have a clear understanding and great attitude. Many people feel exactly the same. I know I do.

Nobody I know including myself has an opposition to a Linden "Approved, Scheduled, and Announced" event. Such events would be very much welcomed and not just for sailing.

The Lindens desire was to make something good for all residents of SL. They have made it clear to me and other concerned residents that Blake Sea and all other areas of mainland fall under the T.O.S.

These rules below are from Mark's original promotional material regarding his Hollywood Airport.
================================================
IMPORTANT RULES:
Except where expressly stated the following aviation guidelines are in effect throughout the United Sailing Sims and the sims of the Blake Sea area. Excessive violation of any of these rules will lead to sanctions against offending pilots.

1. THE HARD DECK FOR AIRCRAFT IS 70 METERS. Except for take off and landings aircraft using the airspace of the United Sailing Sims and the Blake Sea (which is designated a Linden water recreation area) is 70 meters.
2. AIR TO AIR COMBAT HARD DECK IS 250 METERS. In those sims permitting air-to-air combat no firing can occur below 250 meters.
3. BOATS HAVE RIGHT OF WAY AT ALL TIMES. If an aircraft is performing aerobatics or flying for an extended time in a particular sim they should not do so in sims where boats are. Use your common sense by not doing aerobatics in sims over startlines and along routes boats frequent in a race. Keep you eye on the mini-map when lingering in a sim.
=======================================================



I am quite confident that the Lindens will not at any point in time permit Mark or any other estate owners to tell you that you have to move your boat or plane from the protected regions of the Blake Sea or any other public mainland because the USS wants to have a parade or regatta. It would no doubt need to be a Linden approved event that people would know about in advance. The USS with over 130 estate sims has plenty of space for parades and regattas with out dictating to all other residents of Second Life how they can use public mainland.

I am somewhat inspired at this point to purchasing, perhaps with a group of others some mainland with water abutting the protected Blake Sea sims and open it to all with a place to rez boats and planes. No vendors, no land for rent, no long list of rules. Just a donation jar and one rule. "Be considerate of others and have fun!!"

You know better yet I will request that the Lindens if they have not already done so set up a place where there is a timed auto return so we can all rez boats and planes and other things with which to enjoy these public sims with out having to be dependent on the hospitality of the USS sims.

There is a vibrant sailing community in SL. One part of it is located in the USS (United Sailing Sims). If you have seen the Blake Sea and are interested in getting involved or in just learning more about what we do, I'd like to provide some resources here. First of all, there is a free Learn to Sail class that is held every Sunday at noon in the Starboards Yacht Club (SYC) in Hollywood. After a short class, experienced sailors will go with you one-on-one to get you started. There is a free rental Tako there as well as a demo Fizz. You can rezz your boat to the west of SYC and sail into the Blake Sea.

Other resources:
An Online SL Sailing Magazine:http://slsailing.com/
SL Sailing Association Forums: http://slsailing.org/

You can watch the Sunday Morning Regattas at SLCN.TV on the web - look for
http://slcn.tv/sailon

Numerous youtube videos from the sailing community, among them are:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGxanC3bHk0
BTW, this video (above) documents the joining of Sailors Cove with the USS and NOT the connection to the Blake Sea.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REROgMyP5OQ

Come and sail with us... we are a friendly group of folks.