Stop The Resize Scripts!!!

Bingo! Which is why resize scripts are no subsitiute for modify permissions!

For those that are claiming there are laggier scripts, yes and lets put it this way, go find the script spare time on your favourite sims (shirt ctrl 1 and expand the statistics). Then realise that these 250 scripted resize prims are about 0.5ms. Now if your sim has 2ms free, that's 4 of these resize items before something gives. Most sims I visit typically have 0ms spare time available to start with. Introducing more "normally non necessary" scripts can only go one way in terms of performance.

Lets not make things worse than they are just for the sake of saying "but there's worse out there"... yes there is but lets not add to it with multiple avs with redundant scripts.

Still waiting for Shylah Honey of Damselfly to join the thread... conspicuously quiet despite a personal invitation from me to join the thread...

Not holding my breath...

Bottom line, some people like it, some don't. But the people who don't like it want no one to have it...

sounds familiar.

If you don't like it, fine - kick the people off your property. Other than that, it is not your place to tell others what to do.

Educate them so perhaps they don't need to use it is a better idea... but when you give them ultimatums, then most will do it just to piss you off.

BTW, all the personal pronouns in here are generic - I got a good deal on them at the store.

The issue with resize script for me is that they are utterly useless unless your shape follows the set proportions that the creator anticipates. My av is very lithe and lean and moderately tall by human standards (5'12), so if I buy a no-mod belt/skirt with a resize script, it's either too large, with a very obvious gap between hips and prim or it's too small and juts into the side of my body (if it's a mini, it barely covers anything when shrunk).

As for ease of use, the last time I tried to build a cabinet in SL--- a rectangular, hollow crate-- it took me four hours or more. So if a crappy primsmith like me can edit prims, you can do, too! Just try to learn the SL client a bit....

My 2 L.

So?

I'm sorry, but I have hair that's copy/mod, and I still find it much easier to use resize scripts. It's reproducible and undoable. It makes it easy to get multiple colors of the same hair style all in the same size. You don't get highlighted prims or movement arrows getting in the way of judging the size. The resize boxes are hard to see, hard to figure out which one is which, hard to move in tiny increments, and if you slip up, you can't always backtrack. They're a bloody pain.

I have the KKF Resizer, and it works wonders. And yes, I lock objects when I'm done. ('Lock' is the KKF terminology for deleting the scripts.)

But the real question is why should a couple of hundred scripts waiting for a linked message take up any server time? It's not like they're listening to chat. At worst, there should just be one script waiting for a touch event, or better yet a listen from owner in a non-zero channel. Yeah, it's a lot of identical scripts sitting idle, and I realize they do have an impact. My point is that they shouldn't.

Because real time scheduling is hard.

Thanks, Lewis. I haven't been there, but I am happy to hear that there are people who use the resize scripts and allow mod.


Also, from the release notes for the new server version rolling out in the next two weeks:
(from http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Release_Notes/Second_Life_Server/1.26)


and


Looks like it is about to be easier for LL and anyone with access to estate controls (can view top scripts) to see how much impact scripted avatar attachments actually have on a sim at a given time. It will be interesting to see if people are asked to lower their script time in certain places or at events once this is visible.

(BTW, I may not wear things with resize scripts often, but I certainly wear scripted attachments of other types (Mysti, AO, Dance HUD), so I expect this to impact me too.)

Speaking of avatar script limits, I always use SL with the lag meter open (mostly because at certain times of the day, my ISP decides to stop letting me have Network at 1500 and wants it to be 300), and every single time I've tried on scripted hair and used the resize scripts, one of the meters (can't remember which now; I think it was server) always goes into the red while the script is working.

I do appreciate that resize scripts are useful when you have something that is clearly made for a smaller avatar and is so detailed that a simple stretch might not be enough (besides which, stretching a complete object such as a belt or hair is tricky until you get the hang of which corners you need to pull in which directions) but for something like 200+ prim hair, with a script in each prim all running at the same time can't be good, can it?

I'm guessing with the new avatar script limits being mentioned here, would such script-heavy resize items stop working? If so, then I can see a lot of content creators being beseiged by unhappy residents wanting 'normal' unscripted versions of hair they've bought and now can't adjust.

Something like that. What will actually happen (the last I heard) is that the scripted item will fail to rez--you just won't be able to wear it--unless your avatar's allocation has enough spare script memory. (If you try to rez it unattached, it will depend on the spare script memory from the parcel's allocation--just as prims work now.)

So it may well be that one will be able to wear resize-scripted hair *or* a scripted collar *or* a MystiTool *or* an AO, but finding working combinations of attachments will be an exercise left to the avatar.

Qie--I like that, if/when it happens. All my customers receive information from me to copy the object, then remove these scripts once the object fits. I assume that some don't listen (that's just probability). This will force them to, and I will make sure that they get the help they need to do it easily.

Ahem .... if that is the way they are planning to work such a thing .... they might as well just BAN the members of and DELETE all the content of certain communities in Second Life instead.

On a more personal note: Gee, looks like I may as well delete all of my dragon and furry avatars, any and all weapons, attachments, heck .... may as well delete my entire inventory. It will all become quite useless to me.

I wear quite a bit half the time and notice NO lag UNTIL I switch to flexi prim objects or wear select high sculpt outfits ... and I'm on a bloody laptop!

The answer for LL is NOT to limit avatars in such a manner but to actually get bloody proper hardware and network systems. Beyond that the rest is up to the individual user.

Sorry, I have no sympathy for those who wear or use continually the WORST offenders of lag.

You want to resize my stuff for me then?

Good .... oh wait! You can't as most of it would still be no transfer!

Hmm, lets see here now .... not everyone is going to stay in the exact same shape all the time, nor does everyone want to clutter up their inventory with multiple copies of the exact same object, sized properly or not.

Here's one for you: Find a reason to wear ANY constantly executing script at ALL.

That nice and nifty shield/weapon system combo? It's a bigger lag inducer than these scripts. All the sculpted or flexi prim items people like to wear? They cause quite a bit of lag on their own as well.

the reason for many no mod items intricate items is that a script can copy the whole object and label it as someone else's creation. somethings won't come across like some very obscure parameters and textures (which can be ripped regardless by other means)... no I'm not talking about copy bot, I'm talking about an LSL script.

if a person chooses to protect their content this way, it should behoove them to include INTELLIGENT options for resize scripts (including making those scripts inactive when not in use).

content creators that make prim items and have no or little scripting knowledge should seek out a more experienced scripter to make these thing not only possible, but friendly, when needed. they should be providing a solution that enables the most options in scale, not just a simplistic bigger/smaller option.

Read Winter's post again, TRY to understand what she said this time and THEN post a comment.

Just so as to not raise undue alarm here:

For the moment, they're most concerned with script *memory* consumption, which is causing a specific kind of server-side-only lag (swapping).

Nobody, not even LL, yet knows what the script memory limits will be per avatar, nor per sq.m. of land; they've only really begun making measurements intended to inform the setting of those limits.

The reason it's germane here is that a very large number of very simple scripts waste a lot of memory. The smallest Mono script is 8 KB. By comparison, all LSL2 scripts are 16 KB, so clever scripters have for a long time fit a lot of functionality in very small memory sizes... but 8 KB multiplied by some huge number of scripts would be enough memory to do a lot of complex things--or resize one head of hair.

Getting those scripts out of memory when they're no longer needed helps prevent a big lag hit on all sims sharing a server.

Combining functions into a single script to save memory is another option for many applications.

Anyway, if there are avatars currently using hundreds of scripts to swish their tails or spin their gears or kneel extra pleasingly or whatever, yeah, they may need some redesigned scripts when limits are set. But if they've been unwittingly hurting sim performance, I should hope to think they'd welcome a way to stop doing that.

I think resize scripts are great if they are used properly, along with modify permissions on all my hair. I specifically state in my notecards that once the hair is sized and a backup is made with the scripts, that the sized hair should have the scripts deleted. There is an option on the blue screen that pops up clicking on the hair for this, so its quite simple. If this is followed, resize scripts are a great way to size your hair instead of using those gray boxes. Plus the fact that you can actually "reset" to the original size if you make a mistake. When I started using these scripts, customers needing helped sizing their hair decreased significantly.

Yay and thank you.

I'll remember your name the next time I am looking for hair.

Read MY post again and try to understand, THEN respond.

Better yet ....

Having a "No modify, yes scale/resize" option is USELESS to some people: ANYONE who for ANY reason CANNOT properly scale/resize a complex item .... and those (like me) who find it difficult to resize small, simple items.

So, once again ....

Unless you want to do it for me (which you cannot) kindly remember that you're NOT the only one who uses Second Life.

I'd love a way to stop hurting sim performance .... without placing all the blame on the users.

Proper server Hardware and a properly configured network FIRST, ANY limits on the users SECOND.

But a bot can do it better and easier, and make a more complete copy, and do it quicker, and transfer it to another grid, and can do it to other people's products. When you add to that the fact that many people consider a no-mod product a valid excuse to use a bot to clone it (I'm not endorsing this position, I'm merely pointing out it exists), it's hard to say that making a product no-mod provides *any* protection... it may well increase the probability that someone will make a full-perm copy.

Well now, aren't you perky today!

So since you can not handle resizing small, SIMPLE items, even after 2 years here, you have a right to screw everyone else in the sim? You want to wear your fierce looking Dragon AV and to hell with what it does to sim performance. BS and this is why LL is having to step up and impose limits because unfortunately, no limits goes hand in hand with no common sense it seems. No limits meant people were extorted with micro plots and "advertisements". No limits meant people rezzed 2000 prims on a 512 lot at one time etc. And before you dump on LL why don't you go out and design your own platform where everyone can create their own content and see how well it performs. Even with "no limits" and no common sense, LL is the only one to have stepped up and offered this so far. It all works pretty damned good, considering.

I am a scripter and I look forward to the upcoming scripting limits and the accompanying UI tools to see what script memory usage is. I've been preaching sim friendly scripting for a couple of years in these very forums. Unfortunately there are far too few of us that do care about the impact we have.

Dear?

I cannot SEE well enough to edit items that bloody close to my Avatar.

Next time try actually ASKING FOR CLARIFICATION before being a complete and utter A****** and an IDIOT to boot.

Before you EVER EVEN THINK you can go off on me like that again you might want to think LONG and HARD about the various circumstances others might bloody be in.

Before you place ANYTHING on the users AT ALL you'd better D*** WELL know what sort of hardware is being used, HOW it is being used, How it is CONFIGURED, what sort of NETWORK it is on and how THAT NETWORK is CONFIGURED FIRST ...

Now then, since you've gone and stirred this hornet's nest .... why don't you go out and find a way to impair your sight so that you cannot clearly see your own G** d*** FEET and have to have your NOSE d*** near PRESSED against the d***** MONITOR to even BEGIN to be able to make that kind of fine editing.

SO sorry I'm being SELFISH enough to actually want to be able to properly size what I've bloody bought without giving myself a migraine! SO sorry that I actually want to ENJOY my time in SL and be whatever I feel like being on that particular day! SO sorry I actually want Linden Lab to FIX their SYSTEMS before even ATTEMPTING to so much as CALCULATE even the most BASIC loads.

In case you have not figured it out at the moment, I'm pissed off enough at the moment that I really don't give a F*** if this post remains or if it gets me BANNED: You pushed the WRONG F***ING BUTTON.

It's people like you who do not even bother to get even the BASIC facts that make me HATE most of humanity.

The fact of the matter here is that while limitation is needed and I do not dispute this, I should have to agree that there is quite a number of uses for scripts of all types. Now as far as busting LL chops, I'll take that up since while their platform may be the most content rich out there it is not due to superior hardware or software, as a matter of fact after doing research you will find superior systems out there already allowing user created content, movement freedoms such as those in SL, and very similar systems running better hardware and in some cases server software. Before comment is made, yes I do have accounts there as well.

Now as for these resizing scripts that everyone seems so up in arms about, lets think of this, If I as a builder, scripter, and content creator allow my creations to be modifiable, I take some responsibility in provision of support for those objects. This is something I do gladly. However this isn't something I can always allow, nor do I want to always allow it (there are good reasons for allowing or disallowing that permission).

The facts are as follows:
1. Linden Labs has not built the best platform, lets not be fanboyish on this one we all know it.
2. Linden Labs is doing the best they can at this point with what they have. Credit where it is due.
3. Linden Labs is not prioritizing things in an entirely efficient manner. (Evidence is in the Jira of this.)
4. Avatar limits are needed, as are scripting limitations, affinity setting of server processes, proper server resource allocation, refined systems cost analysis, website updates, and others are still needed.

I would propose a limitation on avatars as well, but one which is scalable to circumstances so as not to break any current objects (something that must also be taken into consideration). Try a percentage of server resources which are allocated to avatar positioning (Technically rendering times are dependent on the client machines as it seems the server only sends the uploaded local render to other machines. This is evidenced by the NVidia 117+ driver bug which was recently fixed.)

So say we are going to give 50% of sim CPU time to avatars and a sim that has a limit of 80 agents each one of the avatars would be allotted approximately 0.625% of sim CPU resource time should the maximum number of agents be present. Should there be fewer than the maximum each avatar could receive a scaled percentage of sim CPU time (i.e. the above sim with proposed modifications has only 20 avatars on it they receive 2.5% of the sim CPU time allowing for larger attachment sets under those circumstances.)

Now while I realize my numbers are bloated here I have set this example as only an example. This would allow newer server classes to give better performance for avatars and make the system properly scalable.

As far as resize scripts go, leave them be. They serve a purpose for many users who are newer or lack the ability in some way or another to resize their objects to an avatar. Users with disabilities, such that affect ones sight or dexterity are among the users benefiting from this script type. We should not exclude any group on their physical condition, personal preferences, or other extenuating circumstances of which we may or may not be aware. This is discriminatory if we do, and as intelligent human beings we should recognize that, and be tolerant of others, celebrating our differences.)

While I have busted the chops of Linden Labs, currently they are doing what they can, our support of what they do is necessary however for their platform to survive as without users the service would go bankrupt. This being the case while I support the limitations to scripting, avatar attachments and other items, I do feel we must also give them feedback when they may potentially be stepping upon the toes of large numbers of users without realizing it (as happens sometimes).

@ Solar and Jesse:
Close the gun ports and apologize to each other. I think that it is only fair. Jesse you may not have realized the situations but you were insulting the intelligence of another. Solar you are guilty of the same insulting behavior and your language was quite over the top on it, I understand why but you need to apologize. You both need to apologize.

Thank you Certified .... a long and drawn out post that I agree with and yes .... I went a bit over the top.

Jesse, I am sorry, I get VERY touchy on certain subjects and with certain things. unfortunately you inadvertently hit one of those touchy areas: Ease of use for disabled persons.

Please remember in the future that I have great difficulty with some of the most basic things due to my eyesight: I can perform simple object edits on large prims which are not attached to my avatar. I find it incredibly difficult to adjust - properly - even a pair of sunglasses.