No entry! No entry! No entry! No entry!

It's as simple as that for me too.

As dead as this ban-line horse is, anyone who "owns" a piece of land, can do whatever they want with it, mainland or not. Yes, it can get frustrating at times, I've been thrown from my boat on more than a few occasions. But I would never expect someone to open a parcel that they own, and pay tier on, just to make it more of a convenience for me.

I have had ban line and then orbs. I mind my own business, don't bother anyone. When I am spending a nice quiet afternoon in my garden landscaping and listening to music and all of a sudden a group of people decide to TP in and start playing their wargames on our residential island, come into my garden and shoot me (totally messing up my avatar). I have the right and will put up security. As said before I pay for the enjoyment of my home!

Maybe we could pay a share of tier pro-rata, for the time we spend there? If I was paying half tier, I'd want half the prims too. That's only fair, surely?[/JOKE]

Have you not heard of a little thing called Auto Return? It's VERY handy! I have only had a vehicle stuck on my land once, a blimp that "moored" itself to my radar tower with the root prim and by fluke 33.333% of it split between 3 parcels of land, so the two of us owners on hand could not return it.

I like Kelli's idea of making the parcels with banlines show on minimap so they can be avoided. There are folks like Kitty who obviously would n't want me on their property, and frankly, I don't want to go somewhere that I would be unwelcome. The problem with the current system is that it's hard to enjoy places where I AM welcome because the banlines are hard to see and avoid. Security orbs are also hard to avoid, but if you accidentally wander into a parcel with one, you can usually get out in time.

Kitty has a special problem with people wandering around SL at all, whether they are on her property or not. She seems to hate the idea of people flying, sailing, hiking or whatever to look at the builds that others have done on their land. But most people who are into privacy and virtual land rights, whatever that means, don't seem to care if I explore SL as long as I don't do it on their property. I want to respect their wishes and avoid parcels where I'm not welcome. Having a way to see where those parcels are before I crash into them without uglifying SL anymore than we have to by making banlines more visible would be great, and I don't see how landowners could reasonably complain if their use of banlines showed on the minimap.

In all honesty, Isablan's idea sounds the best to me. Banking Laws response is silly. Paying tier gives you a license to use a bit of the server. It doesn't create any actual land rights. It's been established repeatedly that you have no legitimate rights in SL whether you pay tier or not. However, his underlying point is well taken, and I doubt Isablan's idea would fly because LL would have to deal with the protests of the angry landowners (drama!). The market for security orbs would skyrocket, though!

Yep. Eloquently put. If all were peaceful and pleasant explorers it would be fine.

I'm sick of people getting crabby with ME because the place they wanted to RP in has disappeared long ago. Not with the people who sold it - with me, minding my own business at 760.

So meh on them. Why ban lines work to 760 I dunno but they DO and also I've noticed my neighbour getting flung to 760 when she was trying to fly. So my ban lines stay, for the benefit of all, not triggering the security orb on people either.

I like the idea of ban-lined parcels showing as such on the minimap. That, plust ability to toggle view banlines and a pleasanter graphic for the actual visible banlines ought to solve pretty much all the problems posted, except for those who don't want to solve them, only to win about them.

I agree with this, plus a little education about which kind of bans do what and where, and some tips about what most people want to use in order to have whatever effect they intended. (There's some of this scattered around the knowledgebase and wiki, but couched in pretty abstract language.) I'm not quite up to writing all that at the moment, but such a thing should be a sticky in some "Land Answers" category.

For example, I'm willing to bet than 90% of "no object entry" settings are just causing grief for the landowner, when auto-return is what they really wanted. "No object entry" is a real boon to scripters (and their alts) trying to "cage" misbehaving physical objects in development; otherwise, I've yet to find any use for the setting that didn't just create aggravation for me as a landowner, leaving scraps of vehicles where I couldn't clean them up, etc. (Yes, I know some people really want to protect their airspace, and the option is there, but I'm sure most uses of it are intended to do something it just doesn't do, and not intended to have its nasty side-effects for the landowner.)

They're not enough for me, no. I don't need access to every square meter...but I want to be able to fly or sail freely, Kitty. I love exploring. Doing it by vehicle is much more fun than by TP. You're constantly finding surprises that don't show up on a map or in a description.



Sure, I could fly high above the ban lines. But even with my draw distance extended, I'd still miss a lot of sights. Not to mention the other perils you point out that occur at any altitude.



I've never voluntarily abandoned a vehicle...although banlines, security orbs, and simple sim crossing crashes have caused me to become separated from my vehicle unintentionally. Auto return is your friend...and mine.



Squatting or making use of your poseballs or furniture, or intruding on your privacy, are one thing. People who abuse you in this way should be ejected and banned.

Simple flight over your land, or passage by your shores through the water, are something else...and I think for that, just as in RL, there SHOULD be a "right of passage." The landowners who've blocked off the connection between Nautilus and Corsica, for example, are just another form of land griefers, IMO.

More or less agree. Or as I said in other similar threads just leave our lands open and when we need the extra privacy click on the access list check box.

I see no issue with letting explorers wandering around when I am not there. As I said before this isn't RL. People cant vandalize or take anything (as long as you have your lane permissions set correctly which you should anyways) or track mud across your floor or the like. Plus its a interesting way to meet new people.

However many in SL seem to have this 'keep out' mentality which isn't needed or logical. Again when you really do need privacy its one check box away. *shrugs*

Why not divide up the parcel...make a set space that you want no one to get through, but leave a bit of water land or surrounded open space available for people to travel through. Or, set your security orb for the area just within or immediately outside your house. If someone wants to peek, they know about cam use (as I learned) so that would serve well to keep them out OF your house, without making it hard to travel by. Just a thought, I know most will hate it, oh well.

Because I pay for it all. Not just part of it. I don't want trespassers period on any of it.



The linden land tools disagree with you. I have the right to block all access on that land, and even ban for no reason. Paying teir does indeed give you rights since you can now control land access. We don't have to let you on.

If I didn't have the right to ban people from a parcel..ban wouldn't be on the land tools, nuf said.

Let me fix your comment -

In all honesty, Isablan's idea sounds the worst to me. Banking Laws response is correct. Paying tier gives you a license to use a bit of the server. It does create any actual land rights. It's not been established that you have no legitimate rights in SL whether you pay tier or not



I could put up paid entry again, 100 lindens for 5 minutes access.

I have an idea. Why doesn't everyone put up ban lines, everywhere. We can all stay on our own lands until people invite us to their land. Except for shops and clubs, of course. Wouldn't want to keep the $L away. If no one teleports to your establishments, just fill them up with bots.

Thankfully, there are still many places to walk (bike, fly, sail) in. Let's hope it stays that way. Do what you think is best. Your land, your personality, your way.

Goodness the greedy greedy reply there is fantastic. Its MINE MINE MINE go away!! Dont touch it!! You might break it or get it dirty!!

The Linden Land tools are not a set of rights, they are tools by which you exercise your license to use their servers. Currently they allow banlines. They are not rights, however, and I stand by my comment that to assert non-existent "rights" is a silly argument. "Fixing" my comment is just insulting and patronizing. I stated that I understood your point and that even though I supported Isablan's idea on a personal level, I understood that you were correct. I don't know why you felt the need to be disrespectful in return.

If LL decided tomorrow to remove banlines, you would have no recourse. Therefore, banlines are not a right. That's the bottom line. What you're missing, because you failed to read my post, is that I support your ability to put up banlines. I don't want to go on your property if you don't want me there. Banlines put me on notice that I'm unwelcome, which is a good thing. What I want is some sort of notice on the minimap that I'm about to crash into them. And I'd like the ability to turn off rendering so I don't have to look at them. I could explore around where I am welcome, I wouldn't leave any vehicles stuck in your banlines because I accidentally crashed into them and had to relog, I wouldn't have to look at your ugly banlines, and you would get the same protection for your land that you have now.

Why is this objectionable?

i rent homes on all my land...even the sky above my private home..autoreturn would just be a bother really...that i dont want to be invloved with because of...hmm...letitng people i dont know or rent to...onto it? nah...i spent money on an orb...that works for me

I actually prefer orbs to banlines, simply for the fact that you cannot turn the banline visual off. I dont mind not going on someones land, honestly I only explore in places that are listed as explorable or welcoming to others. Not wanting to be where not welcome, but...people that sail, or enjoy flying, you could get caught in a pinball machine of ban lines. Neither is fun though, running into a red worded wall or orbs that return you home. Its a sad day when people have to stay to specifically worded areas on the grid in order to not get chased down or told to go away with no entry walls.

Actually you hit upon something a lot of us on one sim i have land at DID! Some of us have taken the friendly step of adding each other to our security orbs, thus making it possible for those that pay tier on the beautiful land & sea...access over, and around it unhindered...because we all know each other...theres little worry over what will be left or done...or probed And its so neighbourly...i like it

Yes, and I seriously doubt if more than a handful of people would disagree with the notion that some sort of access restriction is required and always will be required.
That's not the issue here.
The issue is the method.

The *current* default LL method sucks for a number of reasons.
They could implement other methods.
The current method is not set in stone. I doubt that it was chosen because it was judged to be best way of doing things. Clearly it was simply a quick and dirty way of getting an access function up and running.

Its sad that it is so rare to see neighbors doing this, but I love the idea. If neighbors would at least add people to an allow list so they dont see the ban lines on their borders, it might lead them to making friends with their neighbors too. It seems like most neighbors either never speak, dont really want to know they even have neighbors or go into prim wars with each other over hating the others builds. Imagine that in RL...I think I need to go slap up some red text around my house rl, brb.

First of all, Kitty's problem is with starting these kinds of beaten-to-beyond-death topic threads .

I really don't care if you wander around or just tp around or sit in the same spot all the time, but I do care if people are going to endlessly whine about an entirely harmless feature which in most cases they don't even fully understand (see all the "I run into banlines high up in the sky" comments in previous threads).

We had a semi-productive thread on that already barely a month ago, which still degenerated into the "exploring" crowd picking fights halfway through.

The current situation is already - in my opinion - a fair compromise: land owners can only restrict access up to 50m AGL and everyone else can - theoretically - fly uninhibited from 50m AGL and up. Both sides give something up to benefit the other.

If you come up with a new compromise that acknowledges both the need to restrict access to a parcel and the desire to make vehicle use less burdensome, then by all means suggest it. But so far the only thing I've ever seen is "I don't see a use for access restrictions, nothing else matters, get rid of them now!" from a tiny minority, usually even without cause for complaint.

Thanks, Kelli. I voted

Ok, yes I admit it... I do want to *see* your land... I don't want to touch it, or walk in it or #^$% in it... but when I'm sailing or flying, I do want to see more then just empty water or empty sky... especially with sailing, a large part of the fun is navigating through crowded "rivers" or exploring coastlines.

Again, I have no interest in actually being on someones private property, but I do like having some scenery around. I guess for some, even that constitutes some sort of violation...

"But so far the only thing I've ever seen is..."
I suggest to you that you read peoples' postings. If you do, you will see a lot more than you say you have seen.

Alright Kitty - I might have exaggerated. I got the impression from the passion in your posts that you were really dead set against people travelling around SL at all by any means other than TP. Like you hated the idea that people might enjoy travelling around exploring other people's builds, even where they were welcome, but you clarified that isn't the case.

At any rate, I enjoy wandering around looking at things, but I don't use people's poseballs/furniture, etc. and I'm not interested in going where I'm unwelcome. I don't cam into things either to spy on people. I respect your desire to keep your land to yourself, but I still hate banlines. I like the idea of there being something on the minimap to warn me so I don't accidentally crash into them.

That suggestion is on the table. Marking banline enabled parcels on the minimap and giving the option of making banlines invisible would solve the problem for me without burdening you. Seems like a solution.