No entry! No entry! No entry! No entry!

That's BS. When I'm sailing along the Sl water's and all of sudden, BAM! I hit a banline, or I'm floating in my balloon or in my blimp, and again, BLAM! into a banline that has nothing to do with trying to get to where I'm not welcome.

What, you're so terrified that someone might even SEE your land? I have no interest whatsoever with what's inside your house, but I sure would like to be able to sail PAST the frikin place.

trouble is with people sailing past is they often dump their damm boats/jetskis/airships/planes/whatever and leave them there- gobbling up the prims...i got better things to be doing then clearing up these sorta things ...hmm like.....buying security orbs JUST to annoy peple

I DID try the no security thing...it was a majjor PITA....everyyyy day...cleaning up, telling people "no, i dont like you using my bed please leave"...hate ban lines tho..at least with an orb you can give them a minute or so to leave voluntarily (which in my experience they never do lol)

Yeah!
That fellow Carl Metropolitan and his stupid maps!
He should he hung, drawn and quartered. He should be whacked in RL.

He's giving out a TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE message to the effect that SL is a 3D world.
It should be blindingly obvious to anyone with a brain that SL was designed to be be simply a collection of self-contained 3D plots linked only by a search engine.

What's that?
A pair of eyes have just rolled into my parcel!!! ZOMG!!!!
Owner Kitty Barnett. Eject/Ban/TP_Home and AR.

They leave them there because they hit your banline and suddenly found themselves separated from their boat and at the bottom of the ocean. I delete mine on the rare occasion I can find it after getting kicked off of it by a banline.

I've come across one while mucking about on the boat.

its far more effective than a red line where you loose your kit
and then shout expletives at the smug prats.



However -do red lines keep griefers out?



Maybe thats the theory.........

I don't use ban lines as I'm happy for people to wander round my place.

But if we don't have the option of ban lines the alternative is worse - people will just put transparent walls round their places, possibly using invisible megaprims - or worse still, ugly visible walls. Some people do that already - but it would be more common if they couldn't use ban lines.

Also I think ban lines can be useful if you're involved in a major build - when you don't want a constant stream of visitors asking 'what are you doing?'

"But if we don't have the option of ban lines the alternative is worse..."
There isn't a "the" alternative.

One of the things that continues to heat up discussions here is the assumption that any attack on ban lines is also an attack on security.
It is clear that there is a need for parcel access controls.
What we need is something that is less visually griefy than ban lines and is also a bit softer at the edges in its effect.


I think a better overall approach would be for LL to change the default parcel access control to a form of security orb that is built into the parcel. All of the current parcel access control settings Allow/Ban would automatically work with it.
The downside of that for the hyper-sensitive is that it would allow someone not explicitly banned to enter the parcel for up to 10 seconds or so.
The upsides for SL at large would be the absence of the visual blight of ban lines and the ability to move and keep moving 'as the crow flies'.

The problem with banlines is that they are too visible. People complain about their ugliness and the way they can visually intrude on a neighbour because of the alpha sorting problems.

The problem with banlines is they aren't visible enough. People complain that they don't get any warning of their presence until they're right on top of them. Even at walking pace you don't always see them before you run into them.

That's one of them paradox wossnames innit?

You know... you're absolutely dead right!!

Ban "lines" should actually be rendered as solid black walls.
That way
- there's little danger of banging into them even when travelling at speed (lag permitting).
- they would accurately and clearly reflect the parcel owner's wishes - keep out, don't even look.

As the current ugly-griefy alpha banlines *should* be, the rendering should be on the inside face as well as the outside if the ban is a general one rather than a specific avatar one.

do you think there should be an option to turn off banline visibilty in each users settings?

You then have the option of:

a)Seeing the banlines, not bumping into them, and putting up with an ugly landscape
or
b)Not seeing the banlines, bumping into them, and having a beautiful view

Not sure which I would prefer.

i dont use ban lines- never have i use a security orb now- but when i had my water front open to all...thats when i had the problem...*you* may indeed be responsible...many are not...frankly...its annoying -actually no- its REALLY maddening to have dela with random strangers rubbish....*deeee breath*...sooo i installed an orb....now its all okkkkkkk

ohmmmmm lol

Hrm, thought forming...

I'm thinking people use ban lines because they're free (compared to orbs which can be pricey). Perhaps because new players don't know about orbs? Took me a while to find out about them. Perhaps because some of the orbs on the market are really tricky to configure?

If people really want to see the end of ban lines then maybe we need an easy-to-use, open source (aka free) security orb.

It would have to be one that only effects your parcel (no bleeding over and attacking people passing nearby). Plus eject only rather than any malicious attack. Maybe something as simple as mimicking the standard land access options (avatars listed, group, ban list) but it removes the visible ban line issue.

Kelli's post points up the conflict.
Until and unless the LL implementation of parcel access changes -
People on the move need enhanced visibility of ban lines so as to avoid them.
People in neighbouring parcels normally don't want to or need to see them at all. But then, someone on the move through a parcel is 'in' the parcel, but still needs to avoid the ban they are headed towards.

The topic has been floated in other threads.
There should be View options for banlines.

There should also be parcel options to set the visibility of neighbours' banlines.
Ban lines are visually griefy and are used as harassment weapons in some cases.


For example:
On one of my plots I have a neighbour who is a card-carrying freak show. She built quite a nice club, but added a line of rental shops that encroached 0.5m into my plot. I asked her to move them. Her response was to ban and mute me - and move them partially. It's taken three weeks to get it all moved, with 3rd party messengers also being banned for having the temerity to mention the encroaching prims (remember that she muted me). Visitors to my plot also get banned.
It's clear that she is using banlines as visual griefing. It's pure spite an revenge for obliging her to move her shops so that the road outside them is narrower.

The upshot is that I'm now using the plot as a sand-box for developing screens.
Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face!

I really don't like screens. Some parcel options to hide elements of neighbouring parcels from all visitors would be far better.

We're always going to have the possiblilty/probability of freaky/ugly neighbours on the mainland. We're also always going to have the possibility/probability of intrusive people.
LL have to put more imagination into our toolsets so that we can deal with that ourselves in a way that does not negatively impact the experiences of people in general.

One solution to the conundrum I posted is to have the option of hiding banlines, but having them visible on the mini-map, say as a red-shaded area. Explorers, sailors & fliers would be able to navigate around the banned areas, so they'd be less likely to crash. Less hassle for them, and less hassle for landowners finding vehicles littering their parcels. Landowners wanting privacy would be less likely to get accidental intruders (from reasonable people, at least - some idiots need a stronger hint, like being wrapped in barbed wire and shot into the sun).

The technical issues of lag & how frequently the mini-map updates affect the feasibility of this, of course. I doubt I'm the first to think of this... off to check for a Jira on the subject.

:: edit :: Yes, there is already an issue posted dealing with this idea, anyone like to support it? https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-3661

i have been thru all extremes here in sl and i just dont feel a nice lil please be considerate greeting doesnt work on the cases most people are tired of dealing with they dont take no for an answer they feel they are entitled to everything in sl for free or get it by being rude
completely open property living on the mainland with friends all around had a blast playing pirate...downfall coming home more then once to find people screwing on my yard furniture because their sim next door went down and they needed a place to finish

didnt close my land at that time cuz it was such a fun build i wanted to share it

when trying to have quiet time and kept getting lots of obnoxious newbies floating over from the over crowded zombie camping casino on the sim next to us i put up ban lines talking to them nicely didnt help they said if we can walk in it we will do what we want

i then moved to a private island..problem was that there were a clump of 6 islands and one of them had a club so we got lots of newbies that thought cuz the club was open every plot on every island in that clump was open and fair game too

came home to people wandering around my house, flying outside my friends treehouse she lived in, when asked to leave nicely they would laugh and keep wandering around locked doors did nothing they camera angled in and sat on things so ban lines went up because we were getting 5 or more a day for quite a few weeks and to many of them would not leave and be rude about it or ignore us

now i live on a private sim i dont use ban lines but you can gurantee if i need quiet time ill throw them up

And I'm sure you have an excellent reason why the dozens upon dozens of open Linden sims aren't enough for you.

If there was a shortage of sims to fly/sail/ride/whatever then you would have a point, but no matter how much you try to twist and turn you end up with the fact that for some inexplicable reason that still isn't enough and you just absolutely need to have access to every square meter on SL.

With your balloon or blimp you shouldn't even have a problem unless you consciously decide to seek it out. Fix it to fly above 50m AGL and you'll still run into security orbs, access restrictions, sim/parcel full and half a dozen othen problems that plague vehicle users, but you won't have to deal with access restrictions at all.

If "explorers" didn't constantly abandon their vehicle without bothering to come pick it up, or "explorers" didn't constantly impose when I am around or squat when I'm not around then I wouldn't need access restrictions at all. If there is a problem with "banlines" then it's due to a total and absolute lack of respect from so-called "explorers". Access to someone's land is a privilege and as far as I'm concerned it's one that "explorers" forfeited after many months of "grief".

If you want to solve the problem, start educating your fellow "explorers" that there is no "right of passage" and when it is permitted to be respectful of that privilege and plenty of people wouldn't need either access restrictions or orbs anymore.

Not all vehicles are abandoned on purpose. I am frequently thrown from my helicopter, usually it is auto returned. Sometimes I can take it if I land on the ground, or hang suspended, but sometimes I simply can't find it or am locked up where I have to relog. Then even upon returning to the parcel, sometimes it's hard to find the vehicle.

The problem with this line of thinking is that it uses a massively broad brush to lump a lot of very different types of people into the term
"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""explorers"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

There are people for whom any amount of education from whatever quarter will be completely ineffective.
We're always going to need some form of access restriction, particularly as LL allows unlimited instant signups and appears to do little-to-little about abusive behaviour that does not have a massive effect in a single mass-reported incident.

The challenge is to enable access restrictions in a way that really only impacts on the people who actually misbehave.

"........ and you just absolutely need to have access to every square meter on SL."
That line is so extreme that it's patently ridiculous.


All of my plots allow object entry and have a 5 minute auto-return. I've been here just over a year now and I have seen very little griefy activity.
In the sims in which I spend a lot of time I see parcels with ban lines up but see no evidence of grief on the unbanned parcels.

I suspect that many people have ban lines up simply "because they can".
I know that some people have them up without being aware of it.
I suspect that the number of people who have been subjected to appreciable levels of ongoing intrusive/abusive behaviour are a small minority. That is not be belittle their unpleasant experience, but I do believe that there is a better way to deal with this other than the very ugly current default system of access restriction.




"the dozens upon dozens of open Linden sims aren't enough"?
I sail on open sims. Those sims are linked by narrow Linden waterways. Ban lines along the edges of those can be a real pain, particularly when they run through a sim at an angle - and especially when the grid is very laggy.

Post #44 in every banline thread is where I always state my opinion that banlines on the mainland should only be allowed when the landower is actually on the parcel. People who want to live in an armored fortress should live on islands. The mainland should should be a contiguous space open for exploration.

I think this would be more accurately stated as, "If you don't insist on going anywhere, you'll never crash into a single banline for your entire SL life."

coco

fabulous idea!

wow. simmer down, sister.

As soon as you start to pay half my teir, sure, that will work. Until then, I pay all of the teir and don't want you there. Guess who's rights supersede your nonrights?

Granted, this only applies to sailing, but around the Hyles area there are miles of Linden waterways. Unfortunately these areas are bounded by private land, often with a lot of water in their parcel. Navigating these is a total nightmare... any banned areas are nigh impossible to spot, and often all you have to do is clip them to lose your boat and sometime crash your client. True, your boat ends up back in inventory, so it's not lost, but chances are you won't find anywhere to rez it for hundreds of metres.

Heh, heh! You and me both!