My Thanksgiving pet peeve....

OK fine. You're *NOT* a douchebag. Happy?

on the contrary, I was just providing what it seemed OP desired... bile and vitriol... what can I say, I aim to please =)

I never thought I was.

I'll celebrate anyone's festival - I'm not fussy. I did 3 New Years last year. Our one, the Chinese one and the Hindu one. Never miss an opportunity for a kness-up!

No wonder your new computer's selling point is a subliminal "I is the sexy'. Jig recommended ? LOL!

In some situations it most certainly is intended to be offensive. Government has no business endorsing, promoting, or displaying the paraphernalia of any religion, period. When government does so, it is favoring one religion over another. This understandably annoys and/or offends people. That is why it is illegal under our constitution. But it is far more offensive when religious zealots use the occasion of this holiday year after year to whip up people's emotions and get media attention for their campaign to make it legal.

Prohibitions on government promotion or endorsement of religion do not harm religion one bit. Religious people who push to get their beliefs front and center in government locations harm their own religion, the other religions they are trying to supplant, and public comity as a whole.

Yup, there are all kinds of displays of Christmas stuff that are not put up with this kind of intent. And virtually no one is offended by secular symbology associated with the holiday. But this whole topic is no longer religious, it's political, and the people who start this fight every year by trying to get nativity scenes set up on the courthouse lawn are waging political guerrilla warfare. I find that extremely offensive.

You're reading a lot into a fairly non complex sentence in the Constitution aren't you?

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

That ammendment does not say all that...........that's your injection of what you want it to say. Read it again.....but don't use creative definitions like "that depends on what the meaning of is is". Words have definitions.......use those instead.

Since you've revealed yourself as one of these theocratic crusaders, there's no further point in discussing it with you.

First off I am not an American and I have also had many wishing me happy thanksgiving but I reply with a thank you but I am not an American and wish them happy thanksgiving. I have been known to wish a few Americans happy Australia day.
The only thing I have found a few Americans who have no idea what Thanksgiving is aboutn they question why me as an Aussie do not celebrate it

Freedom of religion; not freedom from religion, was the intent.

Thomas Jefferson wasn't in attendance when the Constitution was being drafted but years later in a letter to a lady he stated that the U.S.'s constitution effectively separates the federal govt. from religion. Many groups and individuals have used "separation of church and state" to both promote and suppress religions since the 1950s.

/me raises hand, just to say that Kwaanza isn't religious. It's cultural. A celebration of my heritage. It only started in 1966. Here's a brief, wikipedia thingy, but it's pretty accurate:

http://www.bing.com/reference/semhtml/Kwanzaa?fwd=1&qpvt=kwaanza&src=abop&q=kwaanza

FFS.How about this...... Everybody, regardless of nationality or religion.....Go to Hell. Better?

Geez, lighten up already.

So, upon reading that ammendment you decide to drop your argument?

Okay.

I am not the least bit religious -- I actually hate all organized religions and think most religious folk need more than just a simply slap upside the head. However, you are reading more into those words than are written. The amendment simply states that there be "no laws" that promote a specific religion or suppress religion.

That is why a few of the cities around where I live have simply started encouraging displays from other religious groups as well as the typical Christian manger scene.

Is there a special day for that? Or only in your country?

I'm feeling slightly offended....

That is true, but the small city north of me did add Kwaanza stuff to their displays when they added the Jewish symbols. By the same token, Christmas is not necessarily a "religious" holiday to many.

So should we refer to you as an Atheist crusader?

Then, I will just have to turn the other cheek. Seriously, religious though I am (fanatically so, actually) I find more non-religious people ridiculing my faith and belief system, than the other way around. I find that ironic. I would never presume to offer you a slap upside the head for your choices.

Spoil sport.


.

Sorry, figure of speech cuz there do seem to be a few too many fanatics in my life these days trying to shove their beliefs down my throat. I am usually perfectly content to let others be, to each their own.

I don't proselityze (sp) I am content to quietly do my own thing without even mentioning it. I'm not under that blanket of fanatics in your life shoving their beliefs down your throat. They may be my beliefs too, I don't know who all you're talking to. But I respect you as an adult with the right to make your own choices, in any life. Ironic because, it certainly isn't just you. Non religious speak in this derisive, disrespectful way often to, and of, religious. It's something I've come to expect. Just usually, not from someone I like and respect, regardless of differences in religious opinion. Peace though, I'm done with this.

Since I've been labeled as the fanatical crusader for stating my views on the Christmas stuff, let me tell you that it's a very wrong assessment of my religious beliefs. I seldom speak about my personal religion except that it falls under the very broad umbrella of Christian. I do not discuss my religion beyond that with anyone outside my very personal family and very close friends. I do believe that religion is important.......but I will not condemn you if you do not believe the same. I'm comfortable with my beliefs and as long as you are comfortable with yours I won't give it a second thought (let alone try in any way to sway your opinion in my direction). The Christmas fiasco for the last few years does bother me.....but not because I want anyone to "believe". It's the "in my face" by mostly atheist types.............the other religions seldom object to Christmas.

I don't thump my Bible in your face...........why do you feel it is okay to spit your venom in mine? The argument seems always to come back to the Constitution of the United States. With quotes that simply do not exist. When confronted with the actual relevant ammendment then the argument turn to "crusader". I wish I could find what I said that put that label on me. All I said is that it's not in the Constitution that Christmas nativity scenes are forbidden.........and that's a fact.

Oh, and yeah, I've had the Bible toters at my door step too. They are quite easy to get away from............simply be polite and tell them you are quite okay with your religious beliefs. They thank you for your time and wish you well and leave. Not the same with the atheist on the corner shouting down the supporters of public displays of Christmas. Who's the tolerant ones. Who's the inclusive ones? Who's the crusaders?

I think you will find that the first documented thanksgiving was 2 years prior to this, in 1619, in the Berkeley Plantation in Virginia. These colonists even had the clause enjoining them to perform a thanksgiving in their articles before setting off. There is documentary evidence of the actual thanksgiving on both sides of the pond, in “The Berkeley MSS: the Lives of the Berkeleys, lords of the honour, castle and manor of Berkeley in the county of Gloucester from 1066 to 1618, with a description of the hundred of Berkeley and its inhabitants" by John Smyth of Nibley, and in the 'Smyth of Nibley Papers' in New York Public Library, available to read online.

Still, never let historical accuracy get in the way of a good story, I supposed if Columbus is allowed to take credit for discovering America then the Pilgrims can take credit for Thanksgiving too.

Now I would be impressed if any American on this list (without Googling) knew when to wish a Muslim 'Happy Eid' (either of them), or a Hindu 'Happy Diwali', or Germans 'Happy Unity Day'.

Rock

I don't practice nor sunscribe to any particular religion any more, and I do have little patience for fundamentalists and other zealots, there is truth to what Peggy says. Especially on internet venues such as this. I have seen the occasional proseletyzer, but more often I see the opposite. The self styled "liberal/intellectual" or "progressive", who openly derides anything referencing religious ideas, and those who may be of faith as superstitious, misguided or worse. I is especially prevalent in our media outlets. For every Bible thumping zealot are a thousand people of faith who quietly wish only to practice their beliefs, and are met with mockery and scorn. And ironically, often those barbs are thrown under the guise of "enlightenment".