Secret SL Viewers? "Cyro" and "V-Life"

Ok, let me just summarize it.

The creator(s) of these viewers steal source code from LL, hundreds of contributors and 3rd party providers by openly violating any license that comes with it.

They take that stolen code and modify it with features that are intended to not only violate SLs ToS but to attack residents and businesses / land owners in SL.

That illegitimate viewers or should I better say griefer tools are sold for a hefty price; to deter griefers?! Funny.

Usage of these viewers will ultimately lead to a permanent ban from SL and so it should.

Thanks for sharing these details PattehPh0x Katsu. Thumbs down.

Don't be giving me a thumbs down, I'm not here spreading these viewers.

The reason most people don't know about these things is that when someone comes out to provide information about what goes on, the first thing people like you do is turn around and flame them for providing that information.

They haven't stolen the code from anyone, the code is freely available for anyone to download, if they've decided not to provide the changes (code they've written themselves) I'd say that is up to them to decide, GPL or not, they are not taking anything away from the rest of us by withholding the changes they have made.

Would you prefer code that will allow any object in SL to be made fully permissive be released openly for everyone to see? I for one am glad they keep the code to themselves and limit distribution.

As for getting banned, LL cannot tell these viewers apart from an official release until you use them to do something that violates the TOS, if you do that, you're getting banned for what you've done, not for using a viewer.

You seem to have a very flawed understanding of what licensing means. It's certainly not up to them to decide. They use code from others, violate the license by not providing required sources, as such turning opensource code into closed source for making a not small profit out of other's work. This I clearly call stealing.

And I don't even start to talk about the griefer features you are so excited about.

The only thing they are withholding are the modifications they themselves wrote.

I don't recall saying anything about being "excited" about any so called "griefer" features.

I can write a script that crashes a sim in an instant, does that mean LSL is a griefer scripting language? I'd think not, because I can also write a script that keeps track of item sales for me.

In the same way, sure, this viewer can crash a person, but at the same time, it provides many useful features, such as double click teleport, an asset browser, crash protection, a built in radar, more optimized code resulting in higher FPS, and many more.

Let's be clear here. The obvious assumption is that VLife and Cryolife are just repackaged, uneditted versions of some other open source viewer and that the whole operation is a scam to get the money of suckers willing to pay for it.

When they finally open the box either it won't work at all or it won't have these wondrous features being promised here.

/me wonders if he really is too untrusting and paranoid.

Either creator will be happy to provide a demonstration of the available features, if you'd like to contact me ingame I'd be willing to put you in contact with the creator of Vlife, or send you a few screenshots of the available features in the UI.

Wrong again. If they publish binaries based on modified GPL code, and they do so by selling them as you said, they have to provide the identical source code from which the binaries were compiled. Thats nothing to negotiate or to find good or bad. It's a hard fact. Failure to do so is a violation of the licensing.

What's your point, captain obvious?


I ask again:
Would you prefer code that will allow any object in SL to be made fully permissive be released openly for everyone to see?

I don't know if I was somewhat unclear. There is nothing to like or dislike here. They have to provide the full and identical sources. Period.

I agree that they are violating the GPL, I want to know your personal take on the matter.

Would you prefer code that will allow any object in SL to be made fully permissive be released openly for everyone to see?

Well, answering for myself: Yes, of course.

Unless the code is public the chances of it being fixed are slim.

I'd rather it was public knowledge than just owned by a few nefarious ne'er do wells.

Of course, that doesn't mean I believe it exists. Just saying.

My personal take, if there is an exploit that leads to this by using a modified client, this vulnerability has to be fixed. And that is not feasible by self proclaimed security through obscurity in a 3rd party viewer of unknown origin but rather by fixing it on server/system side.

In the end it's nothing really new and just what copybots are doing. So I guess someone put a copybot into a viewer and thinks he invented the holy grail

I see plenty of people who dispute the existance of such features, yet I haven't received a single IM from anyone looking for a demonstration to confirm this.

It sounds like you're sticking your head in the dirt because you WISH these things didn't exist.

I'm making an example of one of the many features available here, these are far more sophisticated than a copybot.

The creators of these viewers routinely submit code to the security jira detailing these exploits, LL is just slow to fix them.

Sure I'd love to see a demo. I can't get online until this evening though.

Why don't you go crash the sim Steamboat though, I'll be able to monitor it with my bots.

I personally stay away from things like crashing sims, also, that wouldn't prove much, since a sim can be crashed in a variety of fashions.

I was referring more to the permissions modifying features, things that cannot be done by an LSL script.

Lame. OK. Go here secondlife://Maple/122/66/20/ and take the scripts out of the rental box.

Scripts and objects are a bit more complex, I'd need to actually have a copy of the object or script in order to full perm them.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't instant god mode, that exploit was fixed months ago, but it is still a significant additional feature.

*LOL* Thought it's more sophisticated than copybot

Dude, even I can steal textures and we already established I'm a total technophobe.

I'll follow up on this later when I'm online though. I don't have a way to give you an object until then.

Last I checked copybot re-assembles objects in the bot's name.

This method actually gives you the original object, fully permissive, along with contents.

Sure, the viewer has a built in copybot-esque feature, allows export of other people's objects, but it doesn't take scripts. (Though the import can import things using any prim, so it doesn't necessarily name them after the person importing.)

Not to mention the viewer can take every attachment and import them, attaching them at the correct position and rotation, it will also put every single one of your clothing items separately in the user's inventory.

We're talking about two separate features here.

*sigh*

You mean it can "steal" things like dance chims along with the dances inside and leaves the person wearing the chim, without it? Sure sounds like theft to me and I would think that these viewers should be disallowed. Somebody call "Legal"

No, it doesn't take it away from the person who owns it.

I can't explain the exact process without going in depth on how the asset and inventory systems work.

Also nobody here is supporting this, I'm only trying to provide information in a neutral fashion.

Like any tool it can be used for both good and bad.

Personally I've exported everything I've created to my hard drive, because I don't trust LL's storage.


As for banning these viewers, there's nothing that makes these viewers appear differently to LL from an official release unless a few specific features are used, it would be very difficult for LL to ban them.

While searching for info on Vlife, I came across this:

http://sysersoft.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1234358040/0

Rock

Methinks the ph0x doth protest to much.