Secret SL Viewers? "Cyro" and "V-Life"

OK, and the risk level from using a low profile one? Or one which you don't know the profile of? What's the risk level of using the VLife viewer?

Sounds like you and I agree in much the same way that Boy and I do. Only difference being my definition of "high profile" is the Official LL Viewer, /maybe/ the official LL open source viewer and nothing else. You happen to consider the Cool Viewer and a few others sufficiently high profile I suppose.

I just refuse to believe that your basic normal user would happily download random software they know nothing about and type the avatar password into it.

I appreciate that some sophisticated (and unsophisticated) hacks could steal my password without me typing into it. Keyloggers and such for a start. Again, it's a matter of risk levels. I'm not going to shut down my router and hide in a corner to avoid being hacked. On the other hand I'm not going to straight up give random people my password by typing it into their software.

I helped to invent the internet and the information you've just provided is very wrong.

So take your attack vectors and your ferrets and get the hell out.

I win this thread!

The one I use is the Hippo viewer, the one recommended by Opensim. You can use it not only for going to SL but for visiting all the other grids based on the Opensim platform too, such as OpenLife, 3rd Rock, Central Grid, OSGrid, etc.

It has an extra button on the opening screen, called Grids,
http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/grids.php
you select the grid you want to visit, and off you go.

In the Build screen, in addition to all the normal prims, it also has a tree and grass generator

http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/trees.php

Mega-prims come as standard, and it also contains many of the bug fixes and patches of the CoolViewer. I really like it.

http://mjm-labs.com/viewer/

Rock

Who is suggesting you do that? I'm simply responding to the implication that running ANY third party client (which is what you started off objecting to) was unthinkable. If it is, then running most third party software intended for SL users is at least as bad, and I'm pretty sure a high proportion of the people reading this thread will think nothing of doing so. They're the audience I'm addressing here.

If someone is willing to go to the lengths required to steal your password, using an obscure open source viewer, they payoff would be much higher and the difficulty and risk no greater, in many many other ways.

Do you know that many people are even willing to play games that require they download and install a rootkit on their computer to even run? They don't care, because they trust Bungie or Sony or Microsoft not to leave a backdoor in the "anti cheating" code in their games, even after similar "anti cheating" rootkits in games have been used by malware writers to break into people's computers or hide the evidence of their exploits from virus scanners?

THAT is the standard of security we're comparing these clients against. I'd install the Cool Viewer in a minute but I'd never dream of installing Steam.

They wouldn't need to. They'd just need to download random software they know nothing about and type their password into Second Life, Internet Explorer, Firefox, or their bank's security plugin. I don't know about Second Life, but I know there's canned password stealers for these other programs that are trivially available in the "viral domain" and HAVE been installed in apparently innocent "random software". I've seen them.


Edit: but to answer your question more directly. "Second Inventory". "Ajaxlife".

OK, well I think we've found a level of understanding. I still personally decline to use any third party viewer, or any third party software that requires my password. I agree the risk of using some high profile well known viewer is lower. But still, I have 100s of thousands of dollars passing through my account and I'm not prepared to take even that small risk.

I think we both agree that using low profile viewers (i.e. VLife) is a risk that normal users should not take.

I wouldn't either. I don't use the computer I run Second Life and other game software on for anything but games, and if I was making real money from SL I'd have a computer dedicated to it.

But we're not most people.

Most people take horrible risks with their computers and don't care. They'll argue with you about non-approved software WHILE you're reinstalling their computer after an infection.

It's like you were telling people to be sure and wash their hands after sharing dirty needles.

So ...

Standing outside the mine is better than yours argument -

The GreenLife has a few neat things I am liking amng which is some oddball shapes that are also visible though not editable in the standard LL client. Qestion then for Rock I think it was- if not whoever said it - re the client with std megas- do they actually show up and are a viable prim in the std client? Or would it only work in the other grids? I used Kirsten's for awhile and found that yes I could build megas but they poofed back to 10m when out of the edit window. And I would have to verify but am fairly certain trees and grass are or at least were,part of the official viewer also. I know I have made Linden trees and grasses from da one in SL.

~

And now back to the bickering....

they do poof in SL but not on some of the opengrid ones.

The trees are already there under create along with the grass.



I would not use a low profile third party viewer unless you had access to the source code, and it was being reviewed by others a lot. It if it just a closed executable... too easy to slip stuff into it.

Boy - as an expert you know about the pros and contras. We are NOT here to say all viewers are made to fool ppls or to offer griefing tools - like the VLife viewer.

I don't want to say the original VLife viewer includes Trojans. BUT it includes the functions I told and I am sure they work pretty well.

I know it is easy to fake IP-address and post something on a forum to make ppls believe you are from Portugal. The IP address that shows the manipulated VLife viewer file with a Trojan points to Portugal. I know some guys from Portugal hanging out a lot at BUG Islands too.


The main questions is...


Why does Linden Labs allow people to manipulate the viewers in a way they can be used to get everything out of you.

I am really not the guy who gets pissed when you orbit me or shoot at me, but I see there is a HUGE different if you have full control of other ppls - it is not only against the TOS of LL - it against everybody.

The fact is: Most ppl dont know what is going on in SecondLife, even YOU who have been here since 2003 almost every day posting over 6000 postings on the forum, talking about anything or everything - still dont know anything , even LindenLabs employee dont know - or dont act to protect people like they should.


Knowing about this facts makes SecondLife the most dangerous Software available on the Internet.


I would like any Lindens to answer here -

..

I can run SL....period.Until a new computer comes into the picture, which I don't plan on doing until the end of the year, the non WL CV allows me to keep using SL.

This is going to be so fun for you in SL!

Because there's no alternative. Even if they locked it down like MMORPGs, the software they used to lock it down would open it up to exploits. This has already happened.
Uh-uh. Internet Explorer. It's so far ahead of the pack that there's no point even quibbling about what's in second place.

If we still allowed to have fun in SL by then.

This will be allowed but only on the new Fun continent. You'll have to flag estate sims as Fun or Not Fun in order to provide a more predictable experience.

How do you get Fun-verified?

Not 100% sure if the megaprim capability in the Hippo Viewer actually allows you to create them in SL, for certain it does in Opensim. I will test it later when I get home from work for you, if someone else doesn't answer in the meantime.

Rock

Quit playing SL?

Thank you Joseph Heller.

You jest, culturally, but I did hear from a site admin whose server was down in Dallas because a tornado took the roof off the colo...

As for 3rd party viewers and risks: my view these days is that the fashion for traffic-shaping and proxy insertion in ISPs is FAR more risk heavy than the insertion of this or that in end-user code. And CoolViewer seems great - except on some ATi cards, waaaahhhh 8-(

No, really, I have seen a webserver on fire in a colo in Houston.
Oh, I had a tornado take the roof off our building... while I was in it. It felt like all the air in the building was getting sucked down the hallway. It was my second most amazing tornado experience ever.

Nice Catch.

Pointless discussion here and waste of time. Just to answer this one, no, you can't create new megaprims in SL. That's a server side limitation and has nothing to do with the viewer. You can however use existing megaprims, change their form, but don't try to change the size as it will snap back to that 10x10x10.

I thought that server side limitation was swept away with the introduction of Havok 4.

http://dusanwriter.com/?p=466

/327/4c/258306/1.html

I used the Nicholaz viewer when that news broke to create some megaprims. Or has that now been plugged?

Rock