Charging more for Copy/NoTrans over Trans/No Copy animations.

a Class Act wouldn't have a thing to worry about.....if people read this thread

Why are you still going with your hate? You are not contributing to the thread. You obviously hate me and have issues with me. So go away. Stop reading it.

I think anyone reading this thread will see 3 people being hostile to me. And you are one of them.

Take the advice in your own profile, and leave me alone.

oh i see, you only 'leave' the thread long enough to duck a question or evade a point, then you come back again.

I think it's important to stand up to this type of behavior in forum, to set an example for people that want to post opinions, and are reluctant to.

I didn't take the attacks directed to me personally, as I watch others get them. It's just normal from this person.

I didn't approve of the tactics used - concerning content of private forum messages and private IM's being posted - I didn't think that was allowed - I did report it, but nothing was done, so evidently it is allowed. There was nothing incriminating about it toward me - I just thought that was against the rules.

Many will say that you have to have a thick skin to post in a forum. I don't think that should be a requirement. I think that I would benefit from people who do not have thick skins sharing their thoughts. I certainly do inworld. I think that you would too. I think that fresh thoughts should be welcome, without having to suffer someone's wrath and a tirade.

That's why I don't bow down to the comments above, and that's why I'm still responding to your comments. I'm also very comfortable with ANYONE reading the exchanges that occurred in this thread, and making their own judgment.

I'm not real thrilled about interrupting a good discussion to make the above statements - just felt like the time and place. And I'll do it again, if warranted

your first post to the thread was was a bizarre accusation of bri ruining businesses, as you had seen her do before... despite the fact that bri pointed out to you PRIVATELY that you were selling freebies. you then went on to hold that against her in some bizarre manner.
your claim that youre 'not real thrilled about interrupting a good discussion' is quite disingenuous considering the content of both your initial post and those that followed.

I had only ONE of those items in my resale store. I had set it out in a hurry to replace a sofa that sold in the display right before it. It was an honest mistake. I deleted it the minute she left, and went through every single item in the store to check after that....while I checked into forum every half hour to see if I was going to be slaughtered in public.

From discussions that I had read in forum.....when I saw her name pop up in Instant Message....all I could think of was "Oh SH$%!..This is not going to be fun"

I used that as an example of how, if I had not been there to offer a reasonable explanation (and why do I owe her any explanation at all?)....that she probably would have come back here and ripped me to shreds in forum.....as I have seen her do to others. That example relates to her original post....it was very clear that someone was about to get ripped.

If you say she would not have ripped me about it then.....then why is she doing it now?

I was not hateful in my posting the account above. I said it was "over the top" and "unfair." Personal opinion. That is not a hateful statement.

Now....go back and read how she responded, and you tell me who was hateful. I didn't want to get into a cat fight with her - but then she called me a Liar. Then it kept going on after that.

As I said....I will not bow down, and accept that type of behavior.

just distract you all from your current bickering I thought I'd give you my unasked for opinion.

I think that selling copyable anything for the same price as transfer represents lost sales. Just like if the asset server eats something I never ask the creator for another. In rl if I lose something or want another copy of it I pay for it. If I want something in bulk I'll negotiate a deal if I can.

Inworld I only buy a copyable item if I really want it and the creator will not create a transferable version for me. This is incredibly rare. I want transferable and will take my chances with the asset server. I can see the benefit to the consumer of having copy permissions - and it has been handy in some cases, but not enough to make me change my mind over permissions and yes, I do have multiple transfer copies of some items that I really like.

I do sell some items both in copy and transfer forms at the same price because I wanted to investigate buying habits ages ago and haven't taken them down yet. The result of that investigation is that it's a 50/50 split on purchases.

All this means is that there are as many different preferences as there are people and everyone's reasoning is slightly different.

Now, I'm standing here as a target, go crazy

she never did say anything to anyone about the sofa, did she? if you had ignored her and kept your freebie up for sale would you have expected her to remain quiet on the matter?

"Oh SH$%!..This is not going to be fun".
so... how did it end up then?

because you brought it up as some sort of evidence against her character.
really, warning somebody they are about to smear their own name selling freebies. i reckon she should have just left you to your own devices hey

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no copy clothes perhaps...
but high-prim houses? vehicles? you walk ani? huds? you want everything no copy/trans?
i cant speak for everyone, but selling certain things no copy is a guaranteed lost sale: mine.

Oh FFS. Your entire reaction and perception is "over the top".

You are not being "ripped". You posted a statement making it sound as if i had brought down the wrath of god on you for having a freebie set for sale. I very politely told you it was a freebie and you were selling it, and i left you about your business. There was no "ripping".

And i called you "Liar" because you have exaggerated this issue when you say you said that you had seen me ruin people or attack businesses, which you implied more than one. I had only EVER posted about one persons business at that time: BLAZE NIELSEN. And i posted how upset i was at his pricing which i did not agree with and made it quite clear that i did not agree with it. Since then, Blaze and I have talked on more than one occasion and settled our differences in a respectful manner that left us both apologizing for the way we handled things, and i have spent several thousand dollars buying one of his awesome creations - and it truly is awesome, since then. Unlike you Mickey, i am not a grudge holder, and I do not reach out to people and speak as if i am friend and reveal personal info to them, only to later come back and attack them in public like you have done to me.

So you cannot use my ONE rant on a retailer and then say i did it to PEOPLE and BUSINESSES when it was only ever just ONE PERSON - that makes you a "Liar". Dig it?

And you can go IM Blaze and have him come here and vouch for what i said.

yes I do want everything transfer and your point is?

if you created only copyable things you wouldn't get my money. Unless I really want something I don't bother contacting to get perms changed I just leave.

There's room in this world for every preference.

I think that I've stated enough.

I just needed to make it clear that although there are only 3 people participating in this thread who disapprove of your behavior and tactics and who are willing to have to deal with this.....there are not only 3 in the world.

You've called me a Liar again. Uncalled for. Call me whatever you want. And do it right here.

I'll stand my reputation against yours any day, and feel quite comfortable and confident doing so.

Yes well, for me the issue isn't *that* much about charging more for copy animations as it is one of attitude towards the customer. Henmations copy anims ARE costly, I know that, even more than Sine's.. BUT they are also modify. To me that means they make an effort to keep a customers needs in mind, and thus get my business.
I don't mind that people charge a little more for a copy version, and I do see their side of it. But then I've never purchased a copy version either. Couples dance SET's.. yes I can see upping the price on copy for those as they are single-instance and you can effectively litter a club with dedicated sets from one copy. They have a lot more value in a social setting. Singles dances are different in that only one no-copy version is needed to service the whole club from a machine, so charging the same % increase for copy single dances as for copy couples sets is what I think is greedy. Nobody's going to throw out a zillion balls with one singles dance in them, they'll buy a machine instead.. common sense.

This is quite an important subject to me because I run an Animation business in SL and I was made redundant from my real life job last year. If my SL business did not, at least, cover it's costs, I should have to sell my land and change to a free account. It took me 2 years in SL to grow the business to a state of profitability, where all start up costs have now been re-cooped, monthly tier and premium membership is covered and there is the future possibility for expansion.

What I want to know is, am I undermining the business by not charging more for mod/copy animations than I do for mod transfer ones?

If I was to change my pricing policy, would it drive more custom away than I would gain by the higher prices?

Wait a minute...

You can call people out for what you perceive to be an uncalled for or over the top tone. But when you get called out for exaggerating to support your position (also known as LYING), you say it is "uncalled for".

That is boggling.

I will not be responding to you any further. You helped derail this thread pretty badly with your 11 month old grudge and obvious personal vendetta.

You derailed your own thread, by slinging out insults from the very beginning. If there was any drama - it started with you.

I'm not sure I follow the logic of the claim, made here several times, that animation-multipliers (such as dance balls and other animation servers) magnify the difference in value between copiable and transferable animations. To me, it seems just the opposite.

Even without dance machines, anyone has been able to be animated by an animation owned by somebody else (witness poseballs). With dance machines, *lots* of "anyones" can be animated by the same instance of somebody else's animation. So, a single no-copy animation can animate a whole sim.

I guess somebody with a copiable animation could go all Johnny Appleseed, scattering copies in untold numbers of sims, but that seems an unlikely hobby.

Personally, for animations specifically, transfer permission is vastly more useful than copy perm to me because they can be traded between alts or embedded in stuff to give to friends. So to my way of thinking, the animators are missing out by charging less for the more valuable product.

(I suppose I might feel differently if I ever lost an AO or chim, but weirdly, of all the inventory I've lost to the Asset system, not a single animation has gone missing for me.)

Ok, I guess one of the 'certain' things then is furniture? Isn't that what you sell? Would you buy those? (If I missed that reply in trying to keep up with this thread, please excuse my error.)

There are advantages to the buyer for each of the permission choices that are made. Some take advantage of the situation. But, it's up to the merchant to decide what they feel their product is worth based on whatever perms they set. It's up to the buyer to decide whether certain perms are enough of a value for the higher priced item.

If someone feels the price is too high, they don't have to buy that item. If they wish to discuss the pricing, they should do so with the seller...perhaps getting a better understanding of why that merchant feels their price is justified.

But to post it here to try to sway people from buying goods at that merchant is like posting an editorial about a high-priced RL store. Really, what is the point? Oh, and if the OP was only posting to really find out how people feel about the perms issue, there were definitely much better ways of handling/wording it...especially, by not putting in the particular post with the thinly veiled 'clue' of the merchant. (Did that get edited or removed or anything, I haven't looked back since I read it earlier.)

We all have bad days and like to vent about stuff...but really, this could have been handled much better. I hope everyone moves on now and has a much better day and ONLY buys stuff based on their own viewpoint of the value it has for them. No need to sling insults one way or the other. Have a happy day, ok???

Well there is no doubt you will continue to get some sales. But other customers may be turned off. That is a given.

I think, as pointed out by a few in this thread, charging different prices for different perms is not unheard of and not exactly uncommon.

I know when i buy a sculpture from Pumpkin Tripsa he charges different prices for a copy version versus a no transfer - and that does not turn me off from buying his products, but as i said, i expect this sort of permission difference with rezzable objects - and with the way the grid is going, it may become common for all animators to do such permission settings.

I will rethink the view i put forth in my OP and consider what has been said thus far.

The focus can be shined on LL to some extent as it is a bug that makes HUDs poof when 'attached' from the ground and containing NO COPY items. I was just for some reason thinking animators would accommodate for this by making their dances copy/no trans.

I'd say that depends on what kind of animations they are. If they're dances(couples ones more so than singles ones), sex anims, or like furniture animations, then yes. Extra copies have a distinct value. However, if they're poses and AO animations then I'd say not really. The benefit of extra copies of those is really as a backup, but beyond that there's not many uses for extras other than maybe a second AO or whatnot.

shrugs...what right do you have over what they charge...ZERO...NILL....NONE...BIG FAT ZERO. Got it yet?

not true. there is ALWAYS a right to an opinion, as well as ALWAYS a right to state it.

Ithink the entire animation business is bad.
Thats all I want to say about it..

Why not making animations copy/mod and no trans?
It would be great.

I I had a shop that sells animations, mine woud be copy/mod.
It only fair.