Why are people from the EU complaining about VAT to LL?

You have yet to tell me how they keep you from starting another internet based 3d universe.

You plainly said limiting competition. Offering sims using their platform is not competing with them. Competing with them would be you starting your version of SL using software you develop.

That's been thrown around a lot the past few days, but it isn't necessarily true.

Non-US residents who run a business in SL don't benefit from a weak USD at all: the weaker the US$ gets, the less they actually make in their local currency.

It's businesses who are bothered the most by the VAT issue as well, so they really have to take two hits on their SL income right now..

But you're paying lower, already, in PPP terms in tier. I agree that the VAT adds to that, but there again the exchange rate mitigates the impact. I mean the USD is at a VERY low level now, so if we're focusing on the cost side, that has a significant impact. Of course the VAT adds to your cost, but the impact is surely mitigated by the weak USD. That was my point.

Oh but your daddy doesn't even allow you to gamble?! Seems to me adulthood never settled in the USA. Well it's time to jump out of the window for you because the USA comes from europe. All what is offered to you was exported from europe. So if you ain't a native american you better shut up!.

My answer to the OP question is simple. The European residents are simply ventng their anger that LL saw fit to surprise them with this increase in their costs. The same thing happened with private island owners when they decided to raise the maintenence fee without any notice. If I remember correctly, after that fiasco LL said they would start to give warning to residents about scheduled increases (I will have to dig in the blog for this information). They must have a really short memory.

Speaking as someone with a chronic illness needing frequent medical attention, I would not trade my care in the US for "free medical care" anywhere else in the world. I have seen government run health care when I was in the service. No thanks.

Gambling is legal in most US jurisdictions; ONLINE gambling is illegal in ALL US jurisdictions, thanks to the lobbyists working a few key Congressional players. But even now there are people working to repeal that law.

Oh and it's not a red/blue issue - there are people on both sides of the political fence who want gambling gone, but the reasons stem from different sources.

By the rules of the English language, anyone born on an American continent is a native American. I can gamble anytime I so choose. There is a full service casino not 15 minutes from my home. Yes, we came from Europe, but we grew up.

Can't we agree that both places have their good and bad points? I don't see many people moving to the US in any significant numbers, and I don't see many people from the US moving here either.

You couldn't get me to live in the US, I like it here, but if you like it there, have fun.

As for chronic illnesses in the US... yeah it's good if you can afford it, but I hear it's hard to get insurance under those circumstances. Hope you saved up the ~20% you didn't pay in VAT *grin*

Well, can't you be more civilized? The problem is not the tax in EU. The problem is another one.If we start talking here politically about US , EU , the rest of the world, then we would need thousands pages of word fighting between residents here and there.
As for adults or not, let's not comment that.

SL businesses get their income from SL in L$ and pay their tier in US$ when converting their L$ into US$.

There's really no difference between an American resident and a European resident there. Neither is (or hopefully isn't) their tier out of their credit card, but out of their sales.

Example: a US and a EU resident both generate L$266k in sales and end up with a US$965 balance after selling their L$ on the LindeX.

The US resident pays tier on their sim and is left with $670 in profit for that month in their bank account.
The EU resident pays tier and VAT (say 20%) on their sim and is left with $611

The weaker the USD gets, the less Euro the EU resident will end up, so for SL businesses a weak dollar is a curse, not a benefit.

(For "true" consumers you're obviously right, they benefit greatly from a weak dollar, but then for those the VAT is mostly a non-issue as well)

No the weak USD makes no difference inworld. All it gives us is extra spending power, so more Europeans may choose to invest in the platform because our money goes further but once you get inworld and start making sales, you sell your L$ for USD$, you pay tier in $USD, it costs us the same as it costs you. We don't get extra dollars because the $USD is weak.

If they are going to bring "free healthcare" and all the other so called benefits of a socialist state into the argument, we deserve to rebut them.

The problem is the tax, if the European peoples would stand up and say no more, then they would not be raped by their governments.

We get quite a few from Western Europe -- good minds, actually. You would be surprised at how many populate the leading firms of Silicon Valley, for example. And then we get intellectual immigrants like Salman Rushdie, Christopher Hitchens, Andrew Sullivan, etc. You all are still coming, just not in the same numbers, and for different reasons. My own parents are European immigrants, from the UK.

Now when it comes to Eastern Europe, there are *plenty* coming, because of course the economic conditions are different.



Yes, it is a personal thing. Living in Europe extensively over the years has only made me much more "American". Europe has some nice things, but in terms of quality of life I far prefer the US -- probably because I was born here and it is what I am used to as much as anything else.

Alright that makes sense for business owners, I agree.

I think you don't get the full picture of free medical care. Just like you we pay the bill of the hospital, but we send that bill to the government and they pay us back. So we are free to choose who and where we will be treated.

If you say you are a chronic ill you would surely benefit from our medical care system. The only difference is that you are always covered for your health. Why would you pay more for med than someone else, it's not you that made your own body. Everybody is equal in europe chronic ill or healthy person everybody pays the same price for life.

It makes a difference for non-business owners, doesn't it? You are buying land for USD, buying Lindens for USD, and paying tier in USD. For these folks, there is a significant currency advantage to similarly situated non-business US residents.

Yes - Take her, PLEASE!!

The tax implemented in EU is not an issue for discussion here, an SL forum. What though Europeans should stand up and take immediate action is the with no notice steal of money from a service company whch happened to be located in california. And believe it or not, we can fight it and get back the illegaly charged fees for this month.
From the next month, we will have to decide if we would like to continue owing land by paying our taxes in sl or just renting land or just withdraw completely from a company that doesn't respect it's customers. That's the main and only point here.

I would propose instead of fighting between us, to have a thinking in how much , if any, SL economy will benefit from this, if it's better to have a drop in eu residents and premiums, if there is a land market crash ahead of us if those owned land will have to dump it in less than a month and so on.

I came here to play a game, not to solve the geo political problems or to compare health systems. We all have our opinion and let's keep it for ourselves.

Done - would you like Pie too?

Agree wholly, Brazil.

I know Amsterdam sees a lot of people taking a holiday from US laws, but thankfully they go back after a bit. Can't think of anything else.

Goodnight eurohippies and angry redneck types, it's late here.

Oh come on Chris, there are pro's and cons both sides of the Atlantic. I know plenty of Americans who can't afford to go and see a doctor for a consultation. On the other hand if you can afford good private health care you get good private health care. We have private health care here too.

The issue with taxes is a little misleading, it's how far your money goes that's important. If we paid less taxes, we'd be on lower wages. Businesses aren't stupid, they know that it's what you get in your pocket that matters, so do Unions when negotiating wages. If our taxes were halved we'd see companies putting the squeeze on wage rises because they know we're better off.

Average yearly pay in the US, from http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2005/04/average-wages-in-us.html : $47,655.16.

Average yearly pay in the UK, from http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285: UKP23244

UKP23244 converted into US$: $47453

Is it such an advantage, really?

No, the point is that LL would not have been forced to do this if it wasn't for the EU's tyrannical taxation of it's subjects.