The Garlic Necklace doesn't really work.

No, you are not -merely- made once again "available to harass". That particular part is common sense and not the point - of course the necklace should stop working if you turn it off, there's no argument there.

When you turn the necklace off, your -entire status- is restored - every single one of your stats. It's not a matter of just your "name" remaining in some do-not-call database. Your name AND every data point that's ever been associated with it by Bloodlines in fact remains in the exact same database; the only thing the necklace does is ADD a marker that tells the website not to display it publicly on the page. The necklace "removes" exactly nothing at all.

Yes, I understand that, clear as a bell. No argument there. But the title of this thread is: The Garlic Necklace Doesn't Really Work. It does, IF your goal is to stop getting bite requests, as mine is. It's not a point of principle for me. I am interested in one thing. To not receive bite requests and have my sl disrupted. I would rather activate the necklace, not get bite requests and be allowed to do my sl thing without dealing with bloodlines. If I never 'deactivate' what I activated, then I should have no problem.

The FAQ states that the necklace removes your info from the site - which it doesn't. Therefore, it doesn't really work. Sure, it stops the bite requests ... until you take it off? If I have to wear this thing to keep from getting bite requests, then I'm still playing a game I didn't sign up for, aren't I?

*Pardon if that's not how it works, but that's what Ive gathered. I refuse to get a prim to wear to put my name goes into their database of non-players, which is likely the same database for players, and I'm just being flagged differently.

That's fine and I respect that.

I, however, wish to be completely removed from the Bloodlines system. Whenever someone IM's the creator with such a request, the complainant is directed toward the garlic necklace; but the necklace does NOT completely remove a user from the system. In that sense, the necklace does not work for us.

If Bloodlines gives us something in response to a request to be removed from their system, it had better remove us from the system. The necklace does not, therefore we are still angry. Even more so at having been jerked around.

Nah, once you activate the necklace, you're allowed to remove it. So it's not "forced roleplay" - however, the other problem still remains.

Ah, ok, I stand corrected. Still, the other issue is the meat of the problem, correct.

Right. So, it depends on what your goals are, what is important to you. If I had time, I'd take up the banner and make it a cause, but I don't. Because I do agree with what your issues are, and I do clearly understant them. Meanwhile, it is more important to me that I don't have to deal with the bite requests, when I am trying to enjoy 'my' sl experience. Maybe create an alt to fight the bloodlines battle. There's a thought!

Apples and oranges.

Honestly, it seems like outrage for the sake of being outraged.

To me, while not getting more requests is good, not becoming a part of any system I don't want to be associated with is better. I want as much control over my identity as I can get, especially when we're talking about a system that is rife with spammy behavior and outright misconceptions. It's not just about me, it's about the whole of the grid. BL is fairly hated across SL. Even vampire sims have banned it's users - what does that tell us?

Sure, on apersonal level, the necklace might be enough. I don't want the necklaces ending up in newbie boxes, packaged as a part of what "everyone needs to start their SL", however. I want to see BL banned, or revamped (sorry!) to work only for people who want to be a part of it. Every other combat system leaves me out of it without wearing a HUD or something else. I want BL to be exactly the same way.

I don't know what the privacy protection laws are like in California, but in Canada they are pretty strict. If a company has your personal info on file and you want them to delete it, you just have to tell them so. If they refuse to do it you can sic the privacy commissioner on them. The fines and penalties are pretty serious.

Now, I don't know how that would equate when the personal info they have is not of your RL info but of the SL info, so maybe it's a moot point. But I did go through it with RL info and an RL company, and just the threat of a complaint to the privacy commissioner's office was enough to get them to fix their problems and apologize to me for the inconvenience.

Slightly offtopic but I'm pretty sure there are all kinds of undisclosed systems out there in SL that are gathering up info on avatars, without any notification or opt-out capability at all. For instance, long before SLX became part of LL, it was possible to send a gift to someone who had no SLX account. The only explanation I could thin of is that a system was in place to harvest keys and names; probably if you went within 96m of a terminal your name/key got captured. Or the name2key website, I think the W-Hats run, is also a database that collects name and key info.

It's probably a big grey area waiting for some kind of challenge, wrt how much of our avatar identiy we 'own' and can consider personal and private.

-Atashi

If I weren't actually in their system, but was just hopping up and down all angry because other people had this problem, then I could see your point. But I am, in fact, in their system, so you are completely wrong - and even if you weren't, you're making the argument about me personally. This isn't about me, it's about Bloodlines - my argument has its own merits to stand on without having to resort to personal righteousness.

Are you sure about that? I tried to buy something for an alt once from SLX before the merger and it told me the alt had to create an account in order to get anything.

Sorry Dakota, I didn't mean to be personal. The xkcd made me chuckle when I saw it and is somewhat related, so I included it, but I don't mean to imply you are being self-righteous.

But I confess I still don't see the issue. Your arguments don't seem to apply, in a practical sense anyway.

I do agree that un-asked for bite requests is too much, and I don't like that aspect of the game.

But at the end of the day, it is a game. And SL is an environment which in many ways *doesn't* mirror the real world. SL is what it is. And you always have the ultimate opt-out: cancel your SL account. Anything more is simply trying to impose your will on a corporation, who's services you pay for (one way or another).

Yeah, I sent a gift to my alt who had no SLX account and it went through ok. I've had a SLX terminal on my island forever though, and the alt has been around it lots... I was actually surprised it worked specifically because the alt didn't have an account.

-Atashi

How would this work in the case I mentioned above? Ie, a shop you've bought from before introduces a "new customers only" detail, so you demand that they erase your personal data because that way they have to treat you as a new customer - since anything that would tell them you're not, should have been erased?

Love, don't take it personal, but the don't-like-it-well-you-can-always-just-leave option only works in my house.

Rather than encouraging everyone who doesn't like BL to quit SL, let me chant "SL is what it is" with you, understanding that SL is supposed to be what we make of it. This is part of, um, we making it what it is.

I *love* the idea of imposing my will on some corporation, especially one who does not count me as a customer, because unless I'm a customer that corporation has no business mucking about with my data, my identity or anything else.

I'm not encouraging anybody to leave SL. I do take your point, Ghosty. It's just that there's no legal or moral (IMHO of course) leg to stand on here: only your will to see things work differently. You have agreed to use Linden Lab services, as as the BL creator, and you are both in the same sandbox. If neither are contravening LL's TOS, and you are the one with a problem, who should be the one to change?



LL has every right, being that you agreed to use the service. Your SL identity really belongs to LL, not you. Right? So it really becomes an issues between the BL creator and LL.

I'm playing devil's advocate here. I understand why people don't like BL, and I understand why people should feel empowered to try to do something about it, but my quoted comment points out that the only *actual* recourse you have is to vote with your feet.

Thank you.

Did you find your socks?

My problem is not with SL, it is with Bloodlines. I understand LL has the right to use my avatar name and image and data anyway they choose - that's in the TOS. But the TOS does not say "oh, and by joining you agree to let anyone else besides LL use all that data too". Therefore, I don't see the relevance to Bloodlines.

I'm not absolutely sure about that. The behavior of it's players certainly has been against the TOS at times, and the BL creators have actively engaged in encouraging it - which IS also a TOS infraction.




The BL creators is the corporation I was referring to, not LL. BL is NOT SL.

My SL identity does NOT belong to the BL creators. I did not sign on to become a part of BL's database schemes when I signed up for SL, nor is it anywhere in my TOS or Community Standards that I have to comply with BL's wishes to enjoy the grid. And, since LL has not seen fit to do something about the matter, my standing up and raising holy heck about it is my privilege as an SL resident, a privilege time-honored with the tradition of making a public stink about it.

BTW, LL does *not* own my SL identity. They own the avatar, the account, the prims, the scripts, and *some* of the content - but the identity, that the avatar represents ME, they do not own.

That is a *very* nice way of putting it, Ghosty.

If vampires had to talk victims into putting on a vampire HUD before they could be bitten, that would actually be closer to role-playing.

But I was referring to LL. If you like, reread what I wrote in that context. As I see it, there are two associations in play here: LL with BL. and LL with you. You have no rights to impose on BL in any way. LL does, should they choose. Not you.




I agree with you, but the point is irrelevant to my argument.



Well, when they take your name, image, shut down your access, and refuse to return your calls, you might wonder how much of your "identity" you've retained. Seriously.

Either that, or someone has some serious salesmanship skills

But I'm not looking to impose my will on LL.



I retain all of it. You do realize I had one before I came here?

Oh, you still do. But it's not "Ghosty Kips." Ghosty is your avatar - not your identity.

I worry for people who lose that distinction. They end up raving about bloodlines! Very much joking there.