Tier fees increased by tax

It does make a difference to me personally.

Extrapolating from what Robin said, LL's fees have always been "VAT inclusive" like you'd expect so no EU account is actually paying 15-25% more in taxes now, we're just paying LL 15-25% more in revenue.

If I had to pay more simply because LL "forgot" about EU VAT laws, then that's a fact of life and Robin is right, complaints go to the goverment. If I have to pay more because LL isn't liking the revenue from EU accounts and decides to hike the price by 20% to compensate then that's LL's decision, noone is suddenly making them charge more.

Sorry to say it, but it looks like LL has indeed implemented "variable pricing" - but not in the way you expected.

OMG what a bunch of Bullshit!. *Robin, not you , Figgie* Flip this switch.

Maybe she means you can't say it because then people would spend their lead time selling off their land? Or, not buying newly released land?

coco

I'm in the US. If you're affected by this VAT change, and don't want your tier to go up, maybe I can help. If enough people are interested, I'm willing to take possession of the land and rent it back for whatever the US tier charge would be based on average Lindex exchange rates. The next bit of land I get will cause a big jump in my tier costs, so I'd need to take groups in half-sim increments (or however the math works out so neither of us get burned). Send me a notecard in game if your interested (I've been missing some of my IMs).

Some people may want to criticize this post as profiteering, but I just read 31 pages with no solutions being offered so I thought I'd take a shot at providing one.

Exactly right and the only comparison/link that can be made between this tax imposition and gambling. LL would have lost out both times if they announced their actions before putting it into practice. can't wait till they try to draw on my funds; maybe I'll let them know a few minutes before they are declined. "Sometimes it's just not possible to let someone know"

Oh wow that conversation with Robin is the pits! WOW! WOW! I am speechless..... I don't expect her to be crying for us.. but WOW!

Nearly every EU resident I have spoken to ASSUMED they were paying tax already in the costs! So yes this is a surprise!

An official notice would of been nice to say it was being implemented as it was not already included, especially for those that have just taken stock of islands.

I have not looked at the sign up page but does anyone know if they make it known that EU people will be paying VAT now? You know... helping them make an INFORMED choice.

As of last time I looked, NO. And it's a legal EU requirement that they do.

Um if you guys have been "absorbing the tax" for God knows how long, then yes, you could have - and SHOULD HAVE - issued a warning in advance.

(I`m understanding "absorbing the tax" meant theyve been paying it from their pockets, I could be wrong, if so, what does she mean?)

I have lost all respect for Robin Linden. It's LL who didn't tell us.

Every EU resident was already paying tax, we're just getting our fees increased by an amount that happens to coincide with the VAT rate so LL can blame EU tax laws instead of admit it simply wants to even things out to cover its own revenue (which isn't necessarily evil or bad, but hiding behind the VAT smokescreen is IMO).

I'm not really sure "absorbing" is a proper word, but in practice it should look like:

US resident buying a private sim:
resident pays $1675 + $295/month
LL gets $1675 + $295/month

EU resident (with 20% VAT) buying a private sim 2 days ago:
resident pays $1675 + $295/month
LL gets $1340 + $236/month and hands the EU $335 + $59/month

EU resident (with 20% VAT) buying a private sim today:
resident pays $2093.75 + $368.75/month
LL gets $1675 + $295/month and hands the EU $418.75 + $73.75/month

Depending on which perspective you look at it from it's either balancing out revenue (LL's point of view), or a price increase (consumer's point of view).

I just don't get what they are playing at?!... they are breaking an EU law by not informing people... in the UK the tax man will jump on anything that moves...

They must be feeling brave because by not informing people they could be opening up a whole can of worms just from that!

Thats how I read it to.... This is just all so wrong. I don't know what to say.

I`m off to take a huge sht. And I think I`ll name it "Robin Linden"

Hey this sucks, but posts like that will just get this thread closed...which would only leave us 14 more VAT threads on the forum.

Robin's quote of "We've been absorbing the tax," could easily mean "We've just been handed a bill by the EU tax authorities that informed us that we've been absorbing the tax." I can't believe that LL was voluntarily charging EU customers 17.5% (or whatever for their specific country) less than everyone else out of the goodness of their hearts. Considering how much they charge for everything else, I doubt that Phillip's mom gets that much of a discount. The way things are being worded, my guess is that they've just been hit by an enormous tax bill and are trying to change things without publicly saying "We just made a multimillion dollar mistake." It sounds like EU customers are having their fees brought up to the level they should have been for years. It sucks that you're being charged taxes for a service, but complaining that LL is unfairly raising the fees is really missing the point.

Interestingly enough Robin's answer implies that they knew long before they imposed the increase what the damage would be. That said they continued to advertise their prices to European buyers without warning them that a VAT increase was imminent and invited them to buy at a price that they would subsequently increase.

Just how low is that?

Of course Argos's answer is equally valid.

No it's not. If we should have been paying VAT, LL should have told us. If LL have been absorbing fees, they could have told us. There is no excuse whatsoever for the overnight VAT introduction and the fact that they don't have the balls to blog about it or apologise says a lot about the company.

Hello,

I'm from Germany. If I purchase something in the US and the prize
is under 22 Euro, about 28,60USD, I'dont have to pay any taxes.
There is no differenz if I purchase hard- or software.
I think in the case from SL it must be the same.

If I pay 9,95 USD for a premium account and 15 USD tier for
2048qm mainland my bill is 24,95USD. 24.95USD are less than
28,60USD, so why I have to pay any taxes? Will LL consider this
fact?

There is an information about the 22Euro regulation in the faq
on the homepage of the german custom (zoll.de). I think in other
EU countries it is the same.

Hmmmm. It might be time for a Linden to make a public announcement of some sort to stem this rising tide of disgust and distrust. Just a suggestion...

Unless they come clean we'll never know .

They could have known all along and simply decided that it was the cost of doing business internationally and recuperate the cost from everyone instead of those that actually owe the tax.

Or they might have decided ages ago that Europe was their primary market for increased growth and that charging an additional 15-25% for fees would hamper island purchases, or people owning land and decided to leave it be for now (if the ratio was such that non-EU paid accounts hugely outnumbered EU paid accounts then that wouldn't be that big of a hit on their bottom line).

Or something else entirely. LL is the only one that can answer the question and I don't really think we'll ever get an answer.

I think there are many questions still to be answered but no one is getting anything explained. Its all very confusing. British Forces families are VAT exempt if residing out side the UK be it posted somewhere in Europe or somewhere else, though most still use their main UK bank to operate from...but there is no system for that either.. A lot of online companies do have that system set up...

Sighs

Nah, that can wait till Monday.

Seems my last post in the blog (the Havoc4 one) is "awaiting moderation", even though previous ones show immediately... It just gets worse.... How can LL ignore and treat customers the way they are - two new blog entries on a Friday, and not a sniff of the VAT subject?....

LL please remember, without customers, you are just a name with a very empty grid...

My blog reply was:

"Will the next blog post be about the Linden xmas party, or will it be about the VAT scandal that affects the 211667+ active residents within the EU? (btw this is versus the 149055 active US members….)

LL, get your priorities right please and answer the questions being asked… burying your heads in the sand will not help LL at all - in fact, it’s starting to look like arrogance of the highest degree!"

Gomez