Tier fees increased by tax

The implementation is definitely the major concern, But then it becomes a case of am I getting the entertainment value for what i am spending here. Currently yes, but there is a point where that percentage decreases, coupled with Is LL a company i want to continu to patronize based on how they treat me the customer.so the actual dollar amount is just a part of the equation

Something tells me that for whatever reason, LL is focusing on compliance at the moment. Verification, now cleaning up VAT treatment -- it seems like someone is going around and trying to clean up compliance overall. I don't know if this is a sign of anything else going on at LL, but at least to me it seems noticeable.

For one, even if this is someone doing it for LL...I don't trust any mail with this kind of sender: [email]Linden_Lab_creators_of_Second_Li@mail.vresp.com[/email]

Not going in on the whole VAT discussion. My country's VAT is 19%. But then, I don't invest in SL.

No, it is NOT vague, especially not if your account info suddenly gives you amounts for the next tier charge that are 17.5% higher and it says underneath that VAT has been added.

It isnt.

find the land on a map. Give me the surveyor's name.

If I would not trust the mail (and yes, you are right... one should be careful'. But I surely trust the changed amount of money I have to pay on my account page... with a reference to a VAT notice.

Morwen.

The VAT rate charged is the UK VAT rate of 17.5%, and not a state-dependent rate. The LL notice says "the rate specified by your country", but that's LL for you.

This is the way things work.
The service/product is being invoiced out of the UK, and the UK VAT rate will apply, unless you can give them a VAT number (and are not in the UK).

After having entered a VAT number, My Account now shows the old US$ tier amount. Just to be confusing, the page still says that this nett figure "includes VAT".

Unless LL invoice out of a non-EU state, that's it.
Thank you for your patience.
Resolved.
End of story.
That's the law - as opposed to an arbitrary brainwave on the part of LL.



"Please note that VAT applies to all payments to Linden Lab such as land sales, monthly maintenance fees and Premium subscription fees."
"All payments to Linden Lab" logically encompasses the buying of L$, even if this is not specifically given in the list of examples.
It follows that people who hope to get around this by buying L$ to cash out into a US$ balance on their account to pay tier will be disappointed.

Even where people have a cash-out US$ balance from inworld activites, it should be that they have to pay tier plus VAT out of that.
The Invoice is strictly speaking for the tier, and not for any nett balance due after applying US$ balance funds.
One could live in hope that LL would screw that up, but I suspect that this VAT process is in the hands of people who know what they are doing (i.e. not LL)



Anybody fantasising about sticking a demand for VAT on LL would need to be able to produce a VAT invoice billing goods/service to LL.
It would be a really good idea to get LL's prior agreement to this, preferably via a Purchase Order. Once you generate a VAT invoice, and if you do not have a prior agreement with the taxman to pay VAT on cash receipts as opposed to on invoice, you are liable for the VAT amounts on your invoices.

If you trade with other residents, that's nothing to do with LL. They are not your customer.

Ao basically... by charging UK residents VAT on what is essentially web hosting..

LL are breaking uk law?

Just to spice things up a bit:

There was some talk a while back about LL increasing tier.
Some opined that this would be limited to raising the tier on grandfathered private islands to current standard rates.

But still ..........

All your (VAT) base is mine

Someone set up us the Tax!

Several people have mentioned the impact of this change on Anshe Chung. As far as I can tell it will not affect her in the least. Anshe Chung, German citizen, does not do business in SL. However, Anshe Chung Studios, Ltd., a Chinese company does a Whole Freaking Lot.

So any EU-related change should not affect her (unless she's been _really_ sloppy).

Isn't it something like "All your base are belong to us"?

Including your tax base of course, just to clarify.

Unless LL are hosting sims on servers in the EU..
then they shouldnt be charging VAT.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_000346&propertyType=document

specifically

1.5 What is “place of supply”?

For VAT purposes, place of supply is the place where a supply is treated as being supplied, or made. This is the place where it is liable to any VAT. There are a number of place of supply rules for determining where services of different kinds are made.



Where the place of supply of services is in a member State of the European Community (EC), that supply is liable to VAT (if any) in that member State and in no other country. If the member State is not the UK, such supplies are said to be “outside the scope” of UK VAT.

Where the place of supply of services is outside the EC, that supply is made outside the EC and is therefore not liable to VAT in any member State (although local taxes may apply). Such supplies are said to be “outside the scope” of both UK and EC VAT.

Yes. All your correction are belong to us.

If you drive a car, I'll tax the street

If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat

If you get too cold, I'll tax the heat

If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet

If you chat on the grid, I'll tax your meet

according to LL, tier = maintenance costs

how the FUCK can u charge maintenance costs in VAT??????????????????????

Just got this, would love to know what they are intending to bill me for / charge me VAT on, i'm a basic member!

Yet my partner is premium with 1/2 sim tier and hasn't got an e-mail, despite VAT showing on the "my account" page, could they have possibly handled this any worse!?

LL has offices in the UK. That's a business presence for tax purposes. I don't think you can win an argument in UK court that this is not subject to VAT.

Nonetheless the LindeX provides a service that allows us to trade L$ with other residents. In order to comply with all the laws, when we sell L$ on the LindeX if LL won't facilitate all parts of the transaction, including the VAT, then they will need to provide full information on all those who have bought the L$ that one has for sale, including RL country, so that we may collect the VAT that may apply as required by law.

We didn't open this can of worms, but if LL has made the point that this is the law and it must be adhered to, then it's a two-way street. If RL transactions from LL to us are taxable, then so must be RL transactions from VAT-licensed residents to LL or from us to other residents which LL facilitates through their services.

Remember, when selling L$, 3.5% is charged by LL. VAT would apply to that and LL is obligated to pay it if the account in question holds a VAT license.

-Atashi

Ok, I see all this complaining that Euros are paying more.. BUT the US dollar is worth FAR less then most if not all euro dollars.. in some cases 50% less.

So inessence, you've been riding a gravy train paying only 50% of what US citizens have been paying, riiight?

So adding 17% still means you're getting what? a 33% discount over US citizens, based on currency exchange rates?

Exactly, the ramifications of this are potentially enormous.

I live 10mins down the road from an Inland Revenue office, and know a few people there from setting up my own rl business, i'll be phoning up first thing in the morning to arrange a meeting between some tax officials and my solicitors to discuss the ins and outs of this.

I doubt it will end in a law suit or anything, but this really is a huge can of worms and I intend to know exactly where me and my partner stand with it.

Nope..
from the same page..

An overseas business establishment contracts with private customers in the UK to provide information. The services are provided and invoiced by its UK branch. Customers’ day to day contact is with the UK branch and they pay the UK branch. The services are actually supplied from the UK branch which is a fixed establishment.

Daily contact is not with the UK branch

therefore it falls down on one of the 3 criteria to be liable

Nice try, Baphomet, but not so.. see http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageVAT_ShowContent&id=HMCE_CL_001173&propertyType=document

Basically it's taxable. Nothing in life so sure as death and taxes....

Inc

Garee, the cost of living here is *alot* higher than in the US. Yes, your dollar may only be worth 50 pence, but it buys more than my 50 pence. When you balance that against the raw prices paid, you're still getting better 'value for money' than your european counterpart.