Tier fees increased by tax

hmm... that's a very naive comment, for one thing your not taking average salaries and cost of living into account, I have family in the US and costs of living are significantly lower, if anything US citizens are the ones getting the discount, £1 in the UK doesn't buy the same as $1in the US.

LL could soften the blow by letting us pay our tier and premium subscription in L$ based on the conversion rate on the billing date. That might ease the pain a bit. I'd certainly welcome it.

Wonders how those would feel leaving if living in Japan. Prices are much much higher here then many major american cities. We are going to get a tax increase. If you think the European people are crying. They would be cry twice as much in Japan. Unless your getting paid in your 162 Euro to the YEN. YEA they would be crying by shopping so much.

That's subjective based on area though. I know of some freinds from england who just came over here, and made out like bandits because the euro was so strong when converted to the us dollar.

They thought they had a nice cushy amount, and once converted realized that they has about 30% more availavble funds then they had even anticipated.

They did high priced restraunts every meal, and spent ungodly amounts on both us and themselves, just because "they could".

I remember doing the same when the us dollar was far stronger then the canadian dollar.. especially when the balance is so off kilter.

Keep in mind the US dollar is worth half OR LESS then most other currency.. I doubt highly that your buying power is less then half of what ours is, even taking your economny into account.

Let's say a land "widget costs $100 US.. in some other currencies, that's only $45 or so. If your buying power is 20% less then ours, you are still coming out ahead by about 35%.

they should move the bank to some country where they just discoverd the internet let alone have a clue what vat is or internet rules

move ur ass LL (litterally(sp))

WTF, once again I am appalled at the way they have handeled things. So they decided to just tack this on with barely a peep (And sorry, blog is NOT an official means of communication,did they even put this in the blog? they need to start emailing or phoning customers of these types of changes IN ADVANCE) and have these poor people log in and realize the cost is up 17.5% (someone said?) and has been charged to them. That is ridiculous.

The economy is already hurting, now this just adds to it.

Even if its required by law for this new payment to be paid by these people, it sounds AGAINST the law for LL to tack this on with no warning.

Ugh. You do realise that your argument is no different to claiming that US$1 is not equal to 100c? I mean, someone who pays only US$1 for something that is worth 100 cents is laughing. I mean, 100 is a bigger number. Right?

FWIW, I DO agree the handling of this was VERY poorly handled.

Odds are, like many US companies, one of the Euro companies realized that there was a "pie" they didn't get a piece of, and pressued them into obntaining the funds from LL.

They of course, so a huge reduction in funds, and passed that on to customers, but sending out blanket email announcements should have been done PRIOR to any billing statement changes.

Honestly, I don;t think LL has the ability though to send out blanket email announcements, because they are just growing far beyond their means to handle at all.

Idiot!

It's got nothing to do with any EU gov't. It's LL complying with an already imposed tax regime. It's like you getting your first pay packet and blaming whatever gov't for taxing your wages.

No, it's not the same at all. havbe you never had the benefit of currency exchange, and come out ahead?

Here's a great example: when we visited Canada, the dollar was twice as strong as the canadian dollar, so we got twice as much. In theory, everything has the same "intrinsic" value,. but that is NOT the case.

Here in the US, a nice meal in a good restraunt at the time would have run us $50 us OR MORE.

We were living large up there, paying $25 for fantastic dining, WITH alcoholic drinks no less! We were stunned by the diffrences, so we converted more cash, and shopped like insane people, because the buying power was FAR stronger then is was once we came back home.

Course downside is we also spent a lot of $$$ as well, since there was such a great advantage to us to do it.

BTW, is sl back up, so I can stop stirring the pot here?

Thats true and could have been how it happened.

But I can not even find a word to describe how dishearted I once again am over LL, and how ashamed I am to be a part of their world.

They are not a company to look up to, almost everything they do causes cries from the user base..... I don`t get it.


Was there even a blog post on this? Granted, I do not believe ablog should be used as an official communication port, many do not log in several times a day to see the new blog posts, etc, but atleast it would have been something.

I can think of a reason they didnt tell us- because last time there was a huuuuuuge outcry when they raised the tier fee. But that gives them no right to communicate so poorly about this. IMO its almost like stealing money. You sign up and think youre paying X amount, and you expect to pay that each month, then one day you look and you realize this company is taking MORE from you, and they never notified you of the change.

Yes the situation is more complicated, and even regional variations within one nation obviously dictate the spending power of what ever currency you hold in your hand. I'm sure your $ will stretch further in Wisconsin than it would in NYC, just like our £ will go further in Norfolk than it would in London. But my comment is totally relevant to your initial argument that people who pay in £ pay half as much in real terms simply because the the exchange rate of £ is roughly 1:2. The exchange rate of the cent against the dollar is 100:1, that doesn't make 100c worth any more or less than the dollar.

Good comment and something I think should be brought to the table.

Maybe it has to do with the fact you have to convert that money to RL currency before you can pay tier fee?

Hi Hiro, nice to see you

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Well, this has officially hit a bad nerve with me, and finally is getting me off my butt to do the insane work-around needed for me to get Hipihi World working. But if they offer decent customer CARE it will be well worth it.

Care to join me? Hipihi.com

There is something I don't understand: LL is a yank company, so, ok, they have to submit to US laws, like the one about gambling. So why do they have to submit to europeans laws too?
This decision includes that we, europeans, are now under US and europeans laws. So, are europeans in right to re open gambling places? Hehe... My country doesn't have a law against it, isn't it logic? If you know what I mean....

just did something i REALLY didn`t wanted to do but as the person interrested in my lil island hasn`t come yet, passing it on befor the 1st is out

think i`m the first to do this but i just shuved the same 19% bs down the chain to the residents and in 1 case it even raised the tier with 8000!!!

prolly will bite me in the ass sooner or later but we`re all in this boat heh

and still no mo******ing blog

Yes and yes. Slapping VAT on transactions with LL is a tacit recognition that the L$ has real (fungible???) value. Why should we have to go through the hoop of converting our L$ into US$ and pay VAT when we're only going to use that L$ to pay tier or subscription costs? As for paying VAT on cashouts... well that's something I can live with as it was going to happen sooner or later.

yes, correct. If they are not a business.


VAT is only for business to customer transactions, for customers who live in the EU. If you are a business doing business with LL, you do not need to pay VAT. (edit - this also applies to resident to resident transactions - maaaybe. But as the Linden is not a real currency, I suspect there's an untested loophole there)

The EU recently pushed a ruling a couple of years ago that would severely penalise businesses outside the EU if they did not comply with collecting VAT. So e-commerce sites such as Digital River, RegSoft, etc all went through with becoming VAT compliant even though they're not EU businesses.

I just put in my VAT id and I'm good - well most of the time. Seems like the VAT verification system is not in place yet even though they've rolled out the system. Which means a lot of people will have to get their VAT back from the government, retroactively.

I don't know and it all pisses me off.

coco

I've put a ticket on support with this specific demand. Requesting to know how to bill LL for my VAT surcharges. And where to send the invoices. As soon as i get an answer, i'll let you know...

we`ll have holodecks and completly forgotten sl ever existed by the time they`ll answer that... they just wanted to release their continents without us dumping land if we`d knew this was coming...

I don't need to PAY vat on my cashouts, I need to receive VAT from LL on my cashouts.
I have a VAT licensed company, and LL is my customer. Just as subscribers are customers to LL. If LL is charging VAT, so must I in that case.
I deduct my VAT from my company purchases/costs on my tax forms. LL needs to pay me VAT and deduct it from theirs. Just like any other EU based company.

It would have been very professional to have a meeting with UK residents before this was imposed. Dontcha think ? Or at least discussed and discarded ?

and a 1 month notice this would be implemented but that would have interfeared with their own land dumpage