An Open Question regarding Nations.

From my perspective, I don't actually see that Neufreistadt is a functioning democracy at all --nor do I think a "democracy" is particularly suited to the needs of organization in the virtual environs of SL. That's okay in of itself, but I find the structure there unwieldy.
As a point of attraction for those interested in immersive political roleplay it is, however, ideal.

I much prefer my own brand of captialist venture supported by socialist ideology branded as an Artist's Guild.

Principially, I think it's because there is nothing driving national or group bonding in SL. There are no mechanics that underlie the needs of "common life", thus there is no need for avatars to co-operate. Neither are there any outside threats and citizenry in need of protection that would motivate the formation of the state.

In total disregard for the "social void" of SL, I've heard Kyrah Abattoir is busy doing something very interesting. She is building a victorian house with floors that needs to be swooped, coal boxes that needs to be refuelled etc, thus requiring a staff of maids and servants to look after her mansion, and consequently the heirarchical structure that'll go with it. After all, a victorian mansion is something of a mini-society/state all its own.



Still this is true, even in my case. I have several mindblowing dreams I'd love to realize, but I won't tell. I will disclose as much as one of those has something to do with Duran Duran coming to SL.

What has stopped me from going creative is mostly related to my utter inability to learn the tools and crafts of SL (what's a "script", I have no idea), the prohibitive pricetag put on sims and the fees of owning land in general.

Bwahahaha!

Is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights still suspended in your city? Have your government officials who were self-admittedly involved in the piracy of the works of others been brought to justice? Are you still holding trials without a jury of peers and passing sentences behind closed doors? Are you all still pretending that there isn't a behind-the-scenes oligarchy doing things as they wish regardless of the agreed-upon laws? Have you forgotten your failed attempt to take over the Neualtenburg forum and name?

Neufreistadt isn't government, it's theater. Theater acted out by players who care more about self aggrandizement and perpetuating a myth of political experiment than actually adhering to the principles on which original city was founded. It's a damaged project built on a foundation of cruelty, deceit, and theft.

~Ulrika~

*sniffs again* Definitely 'burning martyr', there's a smoky odour you don't get with 'sour grapes'



The 40 residents of Neufreistadt (40! We're bursting at the seams, no wonder we need to expand) respectfully disagree with you. We're all capable of evaluating your many allegations, we also remember that you swept into town before you were banned and deleted parts of the city including people's homes.

Perhaps your efforts would be better spent baiting Christians and Sandbox playtime rather than hijacking this thread? Oh, they already are!

Could you stop hijack this thread, please!

This probably counts as Hijack.

As a resident bordering the lake in the highlands, I will be astonished if it doesn't freeze over this Winter.

Monique : Given that there seem to be three conversations going on in here, which of them do you think counts as hijack ?

(especially as one of the conversations is a great example of members of a (non-democratic) micronation planning policy and it's future weather/appearance/ambience)

Regards,

Paul.

This probably counts as a hijack too! Sorry, but Ulrika's string of accusations at Neufreistadt can't be left on the record without some form of rebuttal.

UDHR: Still in effect in our city, always has been.
Piracy: Put a case forward to the Scientific Council for investigation (or one of our Courts as these are established). We won't, however, be conducting the 'trial' on these, or any other, forums.
Trials: There's only ever been one, though the participants called it a 'hearing'. I've been critical of the process followed but the punishment, a temporary ban on you from holding citizenship, was pretty mild given your conduct.
Conspiracy Theories: The 'unseen oligarchy', hmmm. Is Elvis with them?
Neualtenburg Forum: You're welcome to it, we have our own now.

You see, the thing is that no matter how much mud anyone might fling at us, we're still here, still thriving and improving. We're now at 40 residents (40! Our sim is bursting at the seams, no wonder we need to expand) and I'm guessing they don't share Ulrika's evaluation of events. In fact, I think most people are pretty angry with Ulrika, not least for flying into town and deleting parts of the city, including other people's property and homes before she was banned from the sim.

Ulrika's accusations ring hollow to me. In Neufreistadt we have just held a set of elections, two factions competed for the popular vote and a new Representative Assembly (legislature) was sworn in last week. There is a healthy debate taking place on our forums on ways to improve our system of government. A new citizen has come forward with comprehensive proposals for a legal system for Neufreistadt. Many of us are involved in the planning for expansion to our second sim. That's why I suggested checking them out and visiting the sim. Then people can make their own minds up rather than taking my boosterism, or brickbats from our detractors, for granted.

But --to what end? This isn't a slam (though I think it will be taken as such), but to what noble purpose is Neufreistadt bound? How does it serve it's citizenry? Does your "Government" actually serve it's purpose or is it too weighted down by needless pomp and piffery? My own personal experience of what your City has become is an unwieldy bureocracy that stifles the creativity of it's artist class and punishes free thought and expression. It's become, in short, counter productive to the SL experience.

Though you may not like Ulrika's opinion that Neufreistadt is "Politcal Theory", that is in fact the only thing that serves as it's point of interest.

Rather than run from the notion that you are a politcal roleplaying Sim --you should embrace it.

Nor can the sort of misinformation posted on Neufreistadt's own forums.

From your August 3rd meeting transcript.




*cough*

We have over 25 people attached to the Projekt in general as supporters
5 Journeymen
6 Meisters
1 Gildemeister.

We have as a team successfully completed a 5 sim wide recreation of a New England town and countryside.

Port Neualtenburg is a thriving artist's community which has paid tier on it's land from it's own income 2 months running, last month in profit of it's tier by a factor of 2.

We have no ill will towards you of Neufreistadt --so why the bullshit remarks?

As I have posted on the Neufreistadt message boards, the comments were made at the CSDF (Citizens' Social Democratic Faction) meeting held on 3 August and published on the forums because we publish the transcripts of our faction meetings in the interests of transparency. If you read the rest of the transcript you'll see that we spent a lot of time discussing the proposals for an Executive branch and that the comments were made at the end of the meeting when we were all a little tired (past midnight and past my bedtime).

I can only speak for myself here. My comments, "diseased chicken" were lighthearted and not meant to cause offence to the Neualtenburgers. Respectfully, I think you're being a little oversensitive here Kendra. We don't censor ourselves in meetings, we say what we think and I would hate to arrive at a situation where we felt that some things shouldn't be said because of the offence that might be caused.

I'd like to bury the hatchet too, but that will take movement on both sides (I seem to recall reference to the 'fascist walled city of Neufreistadt' not too long ago).

Is some give and take possible here?

The chicken joke was funny.

The insult to over 30 people involved either directly as merchants or peripherally in support of Port Neualtenburg by insinuating that it is a one woman show is not.

I have moved on long ago and been nothing but supportive of your City by DEED including repairing damage to your city and being open and welcoming in discussions with your PR official Salzie.

The fact that your Democratic paradise fulfills 10 out 13 applicable requirements to being considered fascist leaning is your city's problem. Not mine.

The funny banter at the end of a meeting did not need to be included as part of the transcripts of the meeting. Yet it was so done. Why?

I'd love to hear what these 10 out of 13 requirements are. Your (mis-)characterisation of our City does not fit with my experience of it.

The funny banter was included because the meeting had not formally finished (though clearly the serious work had). I prepared the transcript. I lean toward including everything that's said, even if light-hearted, rather than 'editing' transcripts and risking being accused of a lack of transparency.

I think Kendra perfectly captured the nature Neufreistadt in that quote. It exemplifies your duplicity, attempting to put forth a professional face in this forum, while engaging in cruelty, mockery, and IP theft in private. Your entire project is built upon taking from another group's IP and then vilifying them and their participants to justify your unethical behavior. I've personally never seen such a dense collection of ethically bankrupt individuals in my life.

I was disturbed when two weeks ago I saw one of your more nefarious members purchase one of our chicken hats. I was thinking, great, now they're going to steal that too. Is that the chicken mentioned in the thread? I don't even want to know. Of course, this is all coming from a group that voted down an antipiracy law in their city. It was put forward after two government officials in your group reverse engineered a personal structure for city profit without permission.


Neufreistadt is not healthy. It takes from others. It breaks its own laws. It lies about taking and lying.

~Ulrika~

10 out of 13 applicable



1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend*to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols,*songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as*are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

yes


2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist*regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in*certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the*other way or even approve of torture, summary executions,*assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

yes


3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -*The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the*need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial ,*ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists,*terrorists, etc.

yes
*
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread*domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate*amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is*neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

not applicable


5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend*to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist*regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid.*Divorce, abortion and homosexuality*are*suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family
institution.


no

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly*controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is*indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic*media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in*war time, is very common.


yes


7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a*motivational tool by the government over the masses.


yes


8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in*fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric*and terminology is common from government leaders, even*when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.


no (though I note the church is your largest structure)



9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business*aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the*government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial*business/government relationship and power elite.


yes



10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power*of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor*unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.


yes


11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend*to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and*academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other*academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in*the arts and letters is openly attacked.


yes


12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist*regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce*laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and*even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is*often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in*fascist nations.


yes



13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes*almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates*who appoint each other to government positions and use*governmental power and authority to protect their friends from*accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for*national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even*outright stolen by government leaders.



yes

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist*nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are*manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination*of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting*numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the*media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to*manipulate or control elections.


no (that I'm aware of)
*

Further the notion that Port Neualtenburg is a one woman operation is false.

It is not a reasonable conclusion to make at all.
Even a casual tour of Port Neualtenburg will reveal merchants other than myself.

Chance Abattoir
Logan Bauer
Karsten Rutledge
Amelie Brissot
Sven Enfield
Ulrika Zugzwang
Solivar Scarbourough
Daequix Scarborough
all of whom have a say in the environment in Port Neualtenburg

Karsten's clipper ship and Logan's Blimp, Solivar's Gypsy wagon and Ulrika's fachwerh being among the attractions contributed to the City.

All citizens further have the right to change and alter any of their stores to their liking.

Furthermore proactive development and collaboration is encouraged. A prime example being our national pastime (Chicken Racer Bumper Cars) which has been developed by Ulrika, Solivar, Daequix and myself with participation from Lucifer Baphomet who will be joining the merchant class sometime next month. Jessica Ornitz also will be moving onto our Meisterstrasse.

We also have set up an import shop in Port Caledon, and I'll be asking all of our Merchants to contribute items to the vendor there.

In addition, due to our success this last month I am finally able to move our capital into the development of our next phase "Colonial Neualtenburg" (which will be our Representative Branch of our micronation) on a 20km island in the mainland Valerian Sim and will be built completely democratically as a group effort.



Your forums are managed by your SC. The moment something appears on your official forums it becomes a matter of official record. The comment was made by the head of the very branch of Gov't that is responsable for the content.

It is not a matter of censor at this point. It is a matter of Neufreistadt integrity.
Leave what you will as posted. I care not.

Apologize for the slight. And publish a retraction --or I fail to see how I can consider the actions of your Government with any seriousness I would attach to an organization run by adults.

Nahhhh. They are just talking about the official symbol, not realizing that PN's official symbol is not just a chicken --but the Little Red Hen herself.

Ego Volo Vesco.

What?! I have been a citizen of N'stadt for more than a month, and I am completely baffled by your view of the city's government. Point by point:



Actually, they just adopted a flag, which is hanging in one place as far as I know. That is the only use of "patriotic symbols" (really just a brand marking) that I am aware of. I have a flag shop on the Platz selling international flags, but other than that you're hard pressed to find flags.



WHAT?! There have been no trials since I've been around, much less killing or incarceration (nor even their SL equivalent - banning). Seems like another case of sour grapes that is played out ad infinitum in the forums.



Again, nope. There is no unifying force in the city other than the desire to create a stable, democratic government and support the citizens and Second Lifers in general.




There is no city-run media other than the monthly newsletter (hardly anyone's source of opinion about the government). I have a paper, The Democrat, that covers Neufreistadt extensively and I've found no trouble with interviewing members of government, even when after my printed opinions are critical.




Fear of what? This has not been a part of my experience in the city at all.




Look at the list of people who pay the most in land fees (biggest taxpayrs) in N'stadt: Dnate Mars, Jon Seattle, Garnet Psaltery, Ranma Tardis, Diderot Mirabeau, Cyberneticia Cela. Now look at a list of members of government on the site http://www.neufreistadt.info/id21.html There are only two people on both lists (Jon and Diderot). There are businesspeople, there are politicians, there are normal residents, just as in any city. There is no special collusion of business and political interests. Though I note that it seems the express purpose of Port Neualtenberg is to create such a collusion.




When? As in the rest of SL, there is little separation between workers and owners. Usually they're the same people.




Seeing as how both factions had support of arts and culture in their platforms, it seems hard to support this assertion. There is also a semi-supported school and a museum in the city. Not to mention how many Thinkers meetings are held within the city, and well attended by city residents. If anything, it's a pro-academic atmosphere.

Check back with me when you've been there 6 months.

Thank you to Gxeremio for the point by point refutation of the charge of fascism. These baseless attacks become more and more ridiculous the more frenzied they become.

Rather than engage in a pointless debate (or feed any delusions any further) I would simply urge interested parties to explore the Neufreistadt Forums, Neualtenburg's too, visit both sims and talk to the people involved.

This discussion has become too personal and too abusive for rational debate. I suggest a 'cooling off' period of a day or so before any return to the fray.

Hmm... I see my prim snowflake experiment replaced with another kind of experiment..

'sides, apparently a sim doesn't enjoy 1200 prims having STATUS_PHYSICS enabled all at once...


- d.

By all means. I would suggest as much direct comparison as possible.

On that note, can the Neu* kids take their petty arguments to their own forums, so we can get back to more important things, such as figuring out how to freeze the lake...

VIVE LA CALEDON!

- d.

You know, the question is not so much how to freeze the lake as how to make sure that unwary people break the ice and fall in.

Is it the falling in that is dangerous, or the time spent in the freezing water?

I suggest we request the Baroness' sheep be shorn for some thick wool clothes for all who go on the ice..



- d.

I will clarify my stance in light of the supposed refutation of my observations.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -- even casual reading of the Neufreistadt forum reveals an overpowering of need for maintaining their community as "special" and somehow "better" than other organizations. The pride they exhibit in supposedly being the only democratic organization is particularly heavy. Even the name of their City "New Free City" hints that other cities and micronations are not "free"



2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights --Due to the virtual status of the Government I will interp this as "Avatar Rights"...failure to recognize the basic rights of the IP holder of Neualtenburg during a long drawn out disagreement. Ending in Neufreistadt's walking away from the negotiation table and yet still claiming ownership.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause. Neufreistadt rallied itself around the villification of it's own Emanuel Goldstein in the form of Ulrika Zugzwang

4. Supremacy of the Military --not applicable --no military needed.

5. Rampant Sexism -- none there. so kudos on that one.

6. Controlled Mass Media --Their forum is "controlled" by their version of the Supreme Court. Casual search on the subject reveals a desire to "keep a lid" on dissident voices.
Further they have a PR op who reports to the Government to diseminate information.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a*motivational tool by the government over the masses. -- Beware the evil Founders --it is a very common thread that appears all over their group-think. Much effort is devoted to punishment and sanctions against those who would speak out against the Government.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined --In Neufreistadt it could feasibly be argued that the Government IS the religion. It is certainly presented as a utopian ideal.

9. Corporate Power is Protected --There are many laws passed and threads discussing the need to cede public municipal functions (like the Museum) to private enterprise.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed --There is a strong movement within the leading factions to cripple the Artisanal Branch (The Labor Unions) and even deprive it of it's role in the Government. A role concieved originally as the strongest branch --as it was the "People's Collective"


11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -- Though there is a pretense of "culture" in the bougoise sense --there is suppression of free speech against the Government -- Artists are placed in elaborate labyrinths of begging to perform their services to the City. Controversy is frowned upon.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -- There is an over abundance of bills and procedural arrangements dealing with what constitutes crime and what punishments are available to them.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -- Heads of the Government Branches meet in collusion outside the lines of their written Constitution in order to decide issues that they keep hidden from citizens and lesser officials. (The negotiations with Ulrika over IP rights being a clear example)

14. 14. Fraudulent Elections -- Who knows?