An Open Question regarding Nations.

Good grief Kendra. Almost all of your beef about Nstadt, which you present as systemic, is really about your specific issue with them over who owns the name Neualtenburg. I mean, seriously? By all means, continue your "projekt," and let Nstadt continue its project of exploring what democracy means in a virtual context.
And who is the PR op who reports to the government? It's not me!

Like I say, check back with me after 6 months there.

I haven't said boo about N'stadt in 3 months time, only to find today my name being muck-raked on the Nstadt forums.

If your people won't leave me alone I fail to see the need to return the favour.
Why don't you write a nice article about how Government officials publicly dismiss me as an autocrat governing a city of one.

I put aside my issues with your sim months ago even going so far as to dropping everything to go repair building damage accidently caused by one of your Government officials --the very SAME official who laughs behind my back in official meetings and leaves the slander up for anyone's perusal.

You want me to move on? Get them to apologize.



BTW only 2 examples I site are pertaining to old issues.

It looks like the new kids in Neufreistadt don't know about their parents' tarnished past and the damage its done to the reputation of the project. It looks like it's time to educate them. I'll put together a webpage that details the history of their actions and allow you to decide for yourself.

Perhaps there are some new members who aren't complicit in the group think and who would be turned off by the group's past behavior. I know I would be.

~Ulrika~

Character assassination has been at the heart of their political system for months. By creating a "common enemy" through vilification they unite otherwise independent thinkers. It's a sad state.

~Ulrika~

And back to more important matters:

Let me be the (fourth?) Highlands resident to be pulling his ice-skates out of the closet for a quick polish.

Though I admit I'm a little nervous after Ms. Malaprop's last post...

I'm with my Highlands neighbours: I will be 'snowing' my Tamrannoch plot, and as much of Mount Caledon as I can...

And perhaps I'll try my luck on the frozen lake, Ms Malaprop's comments notwithstanding. I think.

For those interested, I will be experimenting with ice-creating and possible snow-creating later this evening (after 7-8pm SL time), at/around the pond behind my workshop. (The corner of Highlands, Tamnarock, Cal II and Cal on Sea) ... you are all welcome to come experiment with me, as long as the stream feeding my waterwheel does not ice up...

(Yes, I know it's early... but the thought of it snowing in august sounds fun

- d.

Ms. Takashi,

Please do visit the back part of my lot in Caledon Highlands to see some snow that should fulfill this request...

Alas, I have yet to find an appropriate sound though.



- d.

Wow. I seriously love you Caledon folks. Why are you so normal?

And what the heck went wrong with N'burg Phase II/Neufreistadt? I wanted normal people too but with a few exceptions all I got was a gaggle of ethically deprived neofascists.

~Ulrika~

I think that we should try to get a tree competition going! Every Caledonian sim could create a 'sim tree' and we could have a contest with Desmond or a panel judging on the best/favorite!

Caledon really needs it's own group forum. =(

You're problem I think was mixing normal people and ethically deprived neofascists. We Caledonians are ALL ethically deprived neofascists. Our collective bright cheery Victorian demeanor is merely a nefarious charade, hiding our greater geo-political agenda!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

/me quickly covers his mouth

We just don't try to force ourselves to be something we're not.

Ulrika,

I don't know that it's about "being normal" - God knows, I sure aren't normal.

I think it's about prioritization, and picking the things that are important to you.

For instance, apparently Kendra and the other person, apparently feel very strongly about each of their (and, in some way, about the other's) nation-esque experiments.

I don't. Rather, I admit, listening to their... discourse.. has left me with a somewhat sour taste in my mouth.

On the other hand - SL to me, is one large sand box, with an unlimited number of tonka trucks. And therefor, finding a (good) way to get the snow to squitch, is a challenge, of sorts... Shrug.

I guess, in the end it boils down to "Each to their own."

Btw, you are more than welcome to visit my snow experiment as well


- d.

Normal? NORMAL? Have you not seen the PICTURES?

Am thinking a few short range sensors, roaming under the surface and masked with full transparency, and extending some pull force in situations deemed suitable...

Well that or the simpler way of small areas of 'ice' cover turning phantom every now and then...

... just sayin' >>;

Hurm - demonizing an outcast sector of their population to empower their citizens?! That's crazy talk - they're a sim based on germany! That could never happen...

urm.. again...

First off, thanks for the mention Kendra - been feeling a little adrift from Port Neu, largely due to trying to set up shop (the first mall we got a shop in up and disappeared overnight, and the only warning I got was all my stuff being returned - currently setting up Second Thoughts in the Someplace Else Mall, Lumiere gave me a space in his new mall at the site of the old Ivory Tower in Noyo, a space in Foo, and trying to angle my way into Caledon for my victorian-suitable adventure wear *nudges Desmond*. Have I mentioned I hate feeling the pressure to do something to make money before I feel I have anything substantive to offer? Won't go into it here, but I think the arbitrary economy is a serious flaw with SL)

As to the whys relating to so few successful "societies" in SL, I can't speak to SL in particular, as Dae and I have only just graduated from newb status (90 days, right?), but we have knocked about MMO's for a while.

MMO societies, unlike our existing external ones, are at a disadvantage to begin with because they have to contend with our existing societal habits as well as accessability. We are generally born into our societies, and learn the rules even before we can judge them. We may be very content with the society we have been handed, or we may object vehemently to it, but it is still the society in which we are accustomed to operating. A MMO society has to create the infrastructure that we have taken for granted in our day to day lives, and because it's leadership and officers are at closer to our level than the mechanisms that run our real life, the imposition seems more personal. The water company , the postal service, the highway commission in real life can create rules that we have to obey at such a remote level that we generally feel powerless to object, even if they bother us. Not so an MMO society where if someone makes a rule, they are right there where we can poke them in the eye. Politics are personalized, and tend to breed histronic responses. Also, unlike rl, if you are bothered by your "society", you can always find another with very little reprecussion. Hence, it's very difficult to keep the idea afloat.

Caledon does have one thing going for it, that many others might not - tradition. The victorian era is very well documented in both it's real and fictionalized forms. It is familar, stable, idealized. It has a large number of real world "fans" for want of a better word, based on it's portrayal in literature. You find catalogues, stores, and whatnot in the real world catering to the fantasy. It feels safe in such an amorphous universe as SL. It also benefits from the fact that it's trans-generational - popular with the older crowd who have been exposed to it in one form or another from childhood, whereas the younger generations have seen it's reflection in the works of the older generation that had an appreciation for it. There's also the goth factor - Dracula comes right out of the heart of the era, and helped define at least a sector of the goth/vamp culture.

I think it was Chance who pointed me to Caledon, though I may be wrong. I thought it was a captial base of operations - a structured recreation of something that ISN'T in the rw anymore, but familar enough that I have the references to naviagte fluidly. My attempts to connect and become involved were, however, disappointing. We moved on, and eventually started carving our own niche inWorld.

So, let me try to summarize:

Building a working society in a place like SL requires a clear, well-defined idea that enough people can recognize and share. It requires a goodly level of hard work and commitment by at least a few people in the goup. It requires a certain degree of imagination, balanced by pragmatism and a level of detatchment, soas to avoid giving up when it doesn't go exactly as planned and personality conflicts threaten dissolution. The well defined part is, I would surmise, one of the key source of failures in SL societies - when details aren't pinned down, it puts the members in a position to come up with their own interpretation that may end up clashing with the the founder's vision, and drama ensues.

Them's my two bits, though my eyes not wanting to focus properly are a sure indication that it's past my bedtime, and I may not be making the sense I would otherwise.

Cheerio!
Soli/Sarge

OT: Kendra, regarding the 10 out of 13 requirements, it just hit me, you sure you aren't describing Israel, or even the United States, rather than a fascist state?

On the contrary USA meets all 14 points of being a fascist state. Israel at least 13.

As an experiment (I had not done any .asp/db work in ages) I had an interactive website (.asp with database back end) built for Caledon with nearly completed forums that I showed to Desmond. Unfortunately, Desmond said someone had already indicated interest in doing a website and that a second person had registered a linux-based forum software and was going to do a forum. Not wanting to step on anyone's toes and make enemies, I dropped the idea. Not sure what happened to the other two people and their site/forum...doesn't seem to have ever developed into anything. Perils of online I guess.

Hosting is rather cheap, I run a site for another online game (a text-based MU*) and I have used a company called PARCOM for about 5 years now. Reasonable monthly rates and RESPONSIVE support. Here's a link to pricing.

http://www.parcom.net/services/shared_hosting/parcom_shared_pricing.htm

*has visions of a steam-powered ice-sled and perhaps rocket-assisted ice skates. To the Lab!

Would it have worked better with ethical neofascists?

Yes! My whole goal was to create a system where disparate views could coexist. The voting system was specifically set up to amplify minority desires. However, as soon as an ad-hoc behind-the-scenes group in power chose to violate the rules/laws, the system broke down, minority voices were silenced, and the project homogenized. It is a complete failure as a true system of governance and exists now only as a form of governmental role playing.

Yes, yes. Just like that, almost. Ulrika began silencing people in the forum when she didn't like their opinions. Her abuse of power is what brought her down. All the others still interested in maintaining fairness to minority views stepped up and sought her removal. Fortunately, she left willingly, and the government runs smooth as a baby's butt now.