Sad Story

Could you give a source for this, Coco? Both Robin and Skimi have been somewhat vague about the details of what actually happened. Of course, whether they did this or not is the important part of this story, and not people on one side or the other enjoying taking offence.

From: someone

Originally Posted by Robin Linden
We've taken the position here that symbols and other references to behaviors that belittle or defame whole groups of people in the real world work against the type of world we'd like to see SL become.

That explains why LL let the "9/11" build stand for so long last year, I guess?

To Doc...

A main issue in this thread that you yourself address (and appear to oppose) is knee-jerk stereotyping. Yet as I read your posts what do I see? Knee-jerk stereotyping. You imply that all liberals support this sort of censorship and PC-thuggery. Well, I consider myself to be a 'liberal' yet I do NOT fall in line with picture you attempt to paint of all liberals in this matter.

To have credibility, ones actions must follow his or her words. To rant about stereotyping based on incomplete information yet then proceed to perform that very action damages your credibility, which is unfortunate. I'm not going to demand you stop (even though I am mildly insulted), but I am asking that you consider toning down your own stereotyping.

Fair comment - but what other label fits? Liberal is probably what I am, though pretty right wing in many ways.

You might know the type I'm on about, jumps on any passing bandwagon, doesn't give a damn about the subject, providing it's high profile and PC, then abandons it as soon as something better arrives.

Limp wristed bleeding heart left wing liberal is a bit of a mouthful, so any suggestions?

The problem about stereotypes is that they exist because they do exist... But not everyone labled by stereotyping is correctly labeled. Though the labels are useful tools - to a point...

Maybe I should have put liberal and hippie in quotes, thus: 'liberal', 'hippie' and indicated that I was using the labels as descriptions of what I can only describe as pseudo-liberals and pseudo-hippies?

You know, like 'environmentalists' who load their 7mpg SUV with two bags of bottles then drive 10 miles each way to the bottle bank to recycle them thus establishing their 'green' credentials?

Does that make sense?

Bah, pot - kettle.... you got me

Damn! I wish I'd written that! Well put.

[/i]


Was that before my time? Whatever, I missed it, care to expand a bit?

It was a build of the twin towers with a plane crashed into it, and some offensive stuff. Built by someone from the internet group Something Awful.com. AKA Someones Anus. com.

Ah, An AssHat project... nice.

I suppose it depends on the 'offensive stuff' - having suffered AssHat attentions in the past myself I can imagine though.

I fins this absolutly appaling. and here is WHY:

This guy seems to have a TON of people who ALL say there wasn't a racist bone in his body or that there wasn't anything he actually DID that went against the TOS. This guy merely had the name Skinhead. Punks have been called that for YEARS and I would gather from the ones I have PERSONALLY known, NONE were racist.

But here is my REAL flippin problem with LL on this one.

Starting in November of last year one of my groups was REPEATEDLY harrased, bombed, griefed etc, you name it, it was done. We filled AR after AR and yet, the griefing continued. The BIG deal about this was that this group and its members were members of the REAL life neo nazi group called the National Socialists. We had chat transcripts of them claiming this. There behaviour had racial and homophobic undertones to it and we also copied them. We LITTERALLY filed at LEAST 30 ARs on these people and NOTHING was done. NOTHING.

Not until a poster with the image of Karl Marx with bullet holes in his head and the message "The Only Good Commie, Is A Dead Commie" and a Threat from myself PERSONALLY to seek legal council, did ANYTHING get done.

What does this lead me to with regard to Linden Labs. Well it leads me here. Linden Labs is only in this to make money. This particular group paid LOTS of money to LL for Teir and Member fees. Only with the threat of a REAL lawsuit and me writing legal letters (my English degree finally paid off) did anything get done.

And NOW we see a young man (or old for I don't know him personally) getting the big boot for a name. This person from what I understand has done nothing else wrong. My advice to him, is to contact the ACLU or another lawfirm that deals in discrimination. Because even if he WAS a neo nazi racist, as long as that didn't turn to words or actions or violate anything in the LL TOS, then he has a case of freedom of speech.

LL is losing membership because of their backwards bias. It's time WE the PEOPLE of SL take it back.

HA don't blame all us liberals LMAO I quite agree with Skins friend. It justtakes one arsehole to go overboard and ruin it for the restof us.

But unfortunalty in the good ol US of Apeople don't know what the flip a REAL skinhead is... It came out of the punk movement in Brittain and YES it derives from working class peoples struggles. Not the damned Neo Nazi movement here. They bastardized the name...

Well, I have to retract my statement of disgust with LL on this issue.

It's come to my attention that there was a LOT more to this story than we are hearing.

I still think that anyone who thinks that all skins deserve to be placed under an umbrella with the racist factions needs a reality check, and needs to remember that such behavior leads to bad things, and history amply illustrates this.

I'll take your word on that Nolan, you've never lied to me, and I respect your opinion.

Personally, I will be needing an unbias look at the whole thing...there probably is more to this than just 'oh, my friend was banned all of a sudden because of his name'.

I mean, really...do you think they e-mailed the Lindens and said 'Please, Lindens, give me my account back. I did no wrong!'. It probably was the same exact message, but in a little different wording.

I can't judge until I know the whole take on this.

And, basically, we'll never know the whole OTHER side of the story, unless somebody comes about it. Which is a zero to zip chance.

~Tokidoki

What Robin said in this thread was my source. I'm not looking at it now, but I believe she said he was asked to change his name, and he did.

By the way, I have done a bit of research on this (and I do mean a BIT). I looked it up on both urban dictionary and dictionary.com.

It was elucidating, in that the urban dictionary (the first page of it, anyway), seemed to give the definitions of young people in Britain, which seem to mirror many of the opinions in this thread; whereas dictionary.com gave two short definitions, the second of which is far more prevalent in the U.S.

As to the question raised earlier, about which should be given precedence, I would think that if there were a similar word in another language which had primarily hideous connotations in some other country, that word would be verbotin for a name also.

coco

This is not true!

Skinhead Mission was not vague about the issue. He said very clear that there was nothing he did wrong.

He told SL-Staff and Robin to bring out and publish the facts they pretend to have. After that they have no reason to hide behind the argument of discretion for this account, there was no further reaction from Lindens for that yet.

So the only one that is vague is Robin Linden and some other staff-members.

If Skinhead Mission had not done anything wrong then he is not vague when he says this, becourse there is not more he can say.

I think it is time that SL-Staff comes down from their heavenly realms and apologize for what has happend.

I'm sorry, but

'let me say this: Skinhead came to our attention for valid reasons'

is just too damn vague for me to swallow.

'came to our attention as a result of unacceptable behaviour' or 'came to our attention due to being repeatedly ARed due to his name' might have cut it with me.

But the wording quoted does, I'm afraid, make it look very much like a cover-up for some very ill considered actions by members of LL staff.

'valid reasons'? Come ON - that covers a multitude of sins. Being slightly more specific than that - in a case where the resident is happy for the reason to be made public - would do more good than harm.

This hiding behind it's policy of 'client confidentiality' is a tactic that does LL no good at all.

Client confidentiality has it's place, which is NOT to act as a shield for LL to hide behind!

Yes, but was that before, or after, the account was closed?

It was after... and it was all - they talked to me. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way - I am real in SL - you all have a chance to make your own view about me. I live at bora, there is my first land and all my work I did till now.

I dont know why Robin Linden tryed to place this 'rumour' about me. As the trouble starts, I thought, - it must be a mistake, and they will excuse for this... but after I read the post from Robin Linden, I think I am silly... what is the reason that they treat me so?

I believe you've been subject to a CYA (Cover your ass) operation.

Skinhead has said he would like to know the details himself, which he obviously is not getting. I can only guess that there aren't any. Skinhead has given his permission to reveal what "a LOT more" is, so spill the damned beans.

Just the idea that you won't get the details about why your account is closed is disgusting, especially when there is real money at stake (ie Sensual's case).

There is nothing here that makes me think LL had other reasons than prejudice and ignorance to close his account and force him to change his name.

To tell the truth, I'm suprised he even were allowed back in the game. I'm guessing (yes, sniffing in the air, smelling foul play, and guessing) that the public pressure on the forums helped him back in, and made LL send the email about the name change.

SL is the world's cyber punk headquarters, but so far it seems to me like LL has no clue whatsoever about punk culture and history. Skinheads was, are, and will always be, a punk sub culture. No matter what a clueless airhead thinks a skinhead is.

Until more details about this case comes out, I remain disgusted.

I'm afraid we've said what we plan to say on this matter. If you would like to have a policy debate, or discuss how we can better manage issues of cross-cultural norms, let's do that. Feel free to start a new thread.

Where is the beef?

This answer is cowardly, unfaithfull and dishonest!

Do they think their costumers have no brain and are so easy to keep after taking their money? Germans are used to a much better and honest service then people in USA and so are Japanese, French and British people out of the countries and people I know a little in the world.

I know it is dificult to apoligize for a mistake for everyone, expecially for people with a big ego. But it is one of the the features of a good service worldwide.

It would have been good to get more response.

However LL have now indicated they are open to relooking at their practice, so it seems appropriate to open up the discussion avaoiding the Skinhead Mission discussion.

I have posted a new thread...

/108/c3/114544/1.html

In order for meaningful debate to take place, both parties need to be prepared to consider modifying their stances on the subject.

Under the circumstances it's difficult to see how meaningful debate can take place.

ok, here is a beginning

/148/71/114138/1.html