Cross cultural terminology

I was pleased to read Robin Lindens post on one of the Skinhead Mission threads, appearing to offer a way forward and a recognition that there needs to be another look at international terms and having read the post, It semed appropriate to open this up for discussion.

The nature of SL attracting a global player base, must, in my mind, require LL to consider the international community, when making decisions on acceptable names or activity.

Because something has a connotation in the USA, does not mean that it is a globally accepted term.

Equally there are terms in the USA, which in other countries mean something quite different.

A classic example, of words having completely different meaning, never mind connotations being a fanny pack, which in the UK we call a Bum bag, as a fanny, is a part of a females anatomy and it's not at the rear...

Whilst LL make the decision on acceptable language and behaviour, it is pertinent, for LL to now recognize the international nature of the game and find a way to mediate with any individuals they feel are behaving abusively or are naming objects, or themselves inappropriately and come to a decision which does not divide the community, because of a lack of understanding on either part of the divide as to what the problem is.

Still, if a term is found offensive in one country, shouldn't that alone make in unacceptable in an International arena? 'Fanny', as you showed, has a completely different meaning in American vs. British usage. 'Black hole' means something different to Russians, then it does to Americans and Brits.

Surely then a good solution would be to find volunteers from other parts of the world who are able to make up an advisory panel for situations such as this. Yes, I am volunteering.

One classic example is "borrowing a cigarette". The phrase "to bum" means "borrow", and a British colloquialism for cigarette is a "fag" ... so if you are trying to 'bum a fag', you can see how that means something very very different in the US.

Lewis

It isn't unusual in the U.S. to refer to someone, especially a child, as 'that little bugger'. Don't think that comes across the same way in Britain.

Oh it is used.

"Bugger me" and "I'll be buggered" are expressions of surprise, rather than an expression of interest in homosexuality.

Lewis

Or even the act of consuming said tobacco product...

'Smoke' can mean to kill through gunfire...

Clearly we need to have a white-list of allowed words. We could even add a new element to SL by making the words collectable and tradabe, so gradually you gain the ability to say new and interesting things!

It don't think we need the Thought Police, or the Cultural Commissars 'sanitising' the English language for the benefit of LL's trendy liberals thank you very much!

What needs discussing here is Robin's very clear statement that LL is going to 'go for it' and make arbitrary decisions about what amounts to 'disrespectful' or 'degrading' behaviour (which, remember, can cover you name, clothing, appearance, profile, forum postings, in-world build, behaviour, expressed belief, well, anything really...), without any attempt to provide rules or guidelines. This in order to provide a pinker fluffier world than RL...

Basically we are all on notice that anything we say or do can now be interpreted by anyone at LL in any way they please, then used to justify disciplinary action, up to and including a ban, conceivably resulting in the loss of in world land, goods and money (remembering here that accounts can contain large amounts of US$ as well as 'valueless' L$).

Well, SL is their world. And if they want to exercise a greater degree of control over it's inhabitants than any tyranny in history, who's going to stop them? Well, the investors just might...

The investors want to see at least a modicum of progress in SL, not meaningless resident number increases created by removing all constraints on resident sign up, but cashflow...
They aren't entirely stupid - that's why they have the money to invest.

Turning SL into some sort of Orwellian-Stalinist state is not, even in the short term going to be a 'good idea', even by LL's decidedly odd concept of a 'good idea'.

Interestingly though, LL's latest policy introduced by Robin is aimed fairly and squarely at the asset holding residents... Now I could remark that this group is ALWAYS the target of left wingers (soak the rich), except that it might get me in trouble with the new regime - but hang on, what do I have to worry about?
Yesterday I sold the remainder of my land, some 22k m2 including a valuable asset (ONE) for L$1! And not to an alt either! My account holds L$537 and US$0 because I've been cashing out since V1.10 was released...
So, I have absolutely nothing to loose Well, about 70p, which I think I can stand...

It's the rest of you I feel sorry for - and as for any one or any organisation considering investing in SL (as opposed to LL). Well, ask yourself, can the potential return possibly justify the risk?

Come to that, the next bunch of investors Phil is probably already lining up may well ask themselves that same question...

But as for the residents - well, it really does look as though the long running capitalist v socialist issue is going to be decided quite easily. Committees will proliferate endlessly, self appointed informers will be everywhere ensuring that nothing remotely disagreeable mars the sterile pink fluffy calm of SL, slowly but surely the capitalists will be purged... The only question remaining is - who is going to PAY for SL once all the capitalists have gone?

An easier way of handling it is like IRL.

When speaking:

Use the most recognized international term for something unless you are already familiar with your listener. When meeting someone, assume he is not of your ethnicity, adjust your language accordingly until such time that you find common ground.

So you'd "ask for a cigarette" from someone whose nationality you have not determined. But you can "bum a fag" if you've determined UK English to be common ground.


When listening:

Whenever someone tells you something, don't use your own filters as the gauge of intent. Sweep through all the cultures you're familiar with first to find alternate meanings. If you get multiple meanings, seek clarification.

Some people like myself high tolerances in language differences. I'm not an Englishman but if I hear "bum a fag" from anyone I'd start off with "sorry, I don't smoke." I am also perfectly comfortable hearing "fanny pack," "belt bag," and "bum bag."

The same people who have been truly paying for Second Life all along - those who are here to have fun, and don't really care about making a profit.

After all... most of the capitalists are the ones cashing out thousands of dollars a month which Linden Labs could be keeping if they weren't. Don't for one minute think that these big land barons offer something out of the goodness of their heart - they're here for profit, and as a general rule if they weren't providing what they do, most people would just have bought land directly from Linden Labs and done exactly the same thing. After all, to most people, $10 a month difference isn't really worth worrying about.

There are of course a few situations where they are taking a risk on something (such as taking an island, hacking it up and renting it out) that Linden Labs don't allow the average user to do - but in the majority of cases, what they do could be done by Linden Labs, such as enforcing zoning and providing themed sims.

So, no, capitalists aren't required, and in the vast majority of cases I think we'd be a lot better off without them too.

Lewis

Actually, SL would be alot better off without the bible thumping zealots who's mission it is, to convert all the residents with their real world hogwash.

Linden Lab makes money from commercial ventures, in the form of tier payments, premium memberships and transaction fees.

To suggest, SL would be better off without business is ridiculous.

Sl without capitalists would for a lot of users, who aren't here to make to make money, not be so attractive as it is now.
For instance, do you think there would still be the same quantity and quality of Clothes or other products for people to play with, when the capitalists are gone? I don't think so.
Zoned sims would not excist, because there are no capitalists to do the zoning for LL. And if LL would do that, you can expect much higher tier levels.

And money that's cashed out is not payed by LL, and isn't money that LL could have kept. Or do you envision a future where you buy your Lindens from LL?

By capitalists I mean people with money. Not necessarily those who buy and sell, or invest for return in SL, but those who have money both in SL and RL, and spend money in SL and with LL, but in return expect acceptable service and a degree of sanity on LL's part.

Now, people like that aren't going to be prepared to buy sims, pay sim tier, in the sort of world Robin so obviously wants to turn SL into, where a slip of the tongue or a cultural difference can easily result in the loss of thousands of US$ worth of investment because of an arbitrary decision by a LL staffer with their own PC agenda!

Like it or not, SL and it's continued expansion depend on people buying land and paying tier. The investors aren't interested in artificially bloated 'resident' numbers, or how pink fluffy and PC SL society is, they'll be measuring SL's expansion by the increase in the number of sims sold and tier paid.

That's reality.

LL needs to sell land, which means people have to be prepared to invest US$, which they won't in the sort of climate Robin now seems determined to create.

So, if Robin has her way, the 'capitalists' leave, or are stripped of their wealth, the 'socialists' win.

There are a lot of empty sims and very little tier being paid. HOW DOES LL COVER THE RUNNING COSTS OF SL?
More importantly, HOW DOES Phil PERSUADE THE NEXT BATCH OF INVESTORS TO COUGH UP?

Well, that's not what "capitalist" means.

Is this a cross-cultural thing?

Looks like we're going off topic but Doc's point deserves an answer.

All the biggest companies in the world know if you want the biggest money you have to know where to market. Microsoft, GM, and their kin know where that is ... the middle class. Sell 10 Rolls Royces ... or sell 100 Toyotas? Who makes more money? Toyota does. Toyota has an easier time selling 100 Toyotas than Vickers has selling 10 Rolls Royces. Toyotas fly off the shelf.

Tier payments on a US$/sq.m. basis are highest on the lowest end of the scale = Preimum membership with the standard 512sq.m. land. That's US$6 - $9.95 per plot.

People who upgrade to the lowest tier pay US$5 for their second 512 sq.m.. The highest tier is $195 for 65536 sq.m. or a measly US$1.52 per 512 sq.m.

Incorporating resource usage (data bandwidth mostly), prim allowances are directly proportional to land holdings so LL expenses can be related to *used* land size

LL knows on which side their bread is buttered: The Premium residents who DON'T raise their land holdings and those who expand to a second plot.

But they know how to put better butter. That's where the Large landholders come in. They generally attract the small landholders.

Gross revenue-wise you can equate one sim of premium firstland holders to anywhere from 4-6 full size singly-owned sims. The thing is, those first land holders are all in one sim. Holding Gross Revenue equal your costs are higher with the large landholders (4-6x).

Now on topic ... does being able to handle matters of decorum matter? Yes. Environment matters when you want to attract the middle class. Consider decorum to be store decor in the social sense. Don't tell me people stay at Starbucks just because of the coffee.

Either you have your facts wrong, or I've been paying massively over the odds for over a year - my tier payment per sim (65536 m2) in this, my last month, and every previous month has been US$195 per sim, not the US$129 you quote and base your learned analysis on...

I'm not going to waste my time correcting your figures. Because they have little bearing on the central premise - people aren't going to pay sim level tier, US$195 a month, AND the initial sim fee, in a situation where they can be banned at a moments notice with no redress on the PC whim of an unidentified member of LL staff! And if you think otherwise, just stick around for six months or so.

You really should read this in order to appreciate what I'm talking about.

Robin's not talking about maintaining reasonable and generally accepted standards of behaviour and expression - oh no, that's not good enough for LL - they intend that SL should feature better standards than real life...

Remember that this is coming from a firm that is currently flooding SL with underage griefers! A firm that is destroying the software on which it depends, 'update' by 'update'!

Can you see that happening? I can't. What I see is a PC Nero fiddling while Rome burns.

Yes it does.

Trouble is, when I hear 'fanny pack' I always think of sanitary protection.

Correct it's US$195. My analysis uses that figure and 128 land units for $195 is US$1.52/landunit. Will correct post. The wrong figure ($129) is only a typo.

And does that upset you sufficiently to require that term to be placed on a 'black list' Selador? And have residents disciplined for using it?

Indeed, in this PC paradise Robin has informed us LL proposes to impose on residents, can one even refer to a 'black list', or a 'white list' without risking being vanished in the dead of night?

I don't think any words should be placed on a black list. I think that certain words if they are used with malice should be grounds for banning, but it's not the words themselves but the intention of the speaker that is important.

I saw an example of that this afternoon, when the word Paki was used by a poster who obviously didn't realise how offensive a term it can be in Britain. But because it wasn't used with malice, then IMO it was harmless, even though it did make me do a double take.

How the hell did this become socialists vs. capitalists?

I guess just not being so easily offended isn't an option.

*crickets.... No further discussion?

btw - a linden is a prophylactic and a relaxant used to treat the effects of arteriosclerosis and hypertension. Its side-effects include increased flow of urine and temporary loss of certain higher brain functions. The word also refers to a particular fibrous, lignified tree, genus Tilia - and in general, to the hard substance just under the bark of trees.

Someone has told me that the word also refers to a species of insect in Indonesia, similar to the African dung beetle - but I can't confirm that.

There's a new name on the list of possible last names in SL, called Perse. I think it must've been a Finn suggesting it in the first place. Perse = Ass in Finnish, so people are going around, being called Asses, which I'm sure they find hilarious. I even thought, after a convo with friends last night, to create an alt using the name Kissmy Perse (thanks Kat ) Unless another Finn has already taken it

I don't find that offensive, just incredibly funny... I suspect the official, American stand to that might be different tho.