Sad Story

First name Linden may be OK.....

Well a name like Lina offends my delicate sensibilities greatly, being as it is an offensive term for female genitalia in my native Croat dialect. And doubtless a few other Croats who've read the thread will feel the same.

What say we all AR you for an offensive name?

That be OK with you if you get your account closed with no discussion as a result?

NOT to us tree worshipers - that's BLASPHEMY that is!

Difference here is regardless of my name that isnt up for discussion and its not racist to a bit of a majority of people. While it may be in your tounge it is an actual real world name and is quite often used in sweden and other places in this spelling. I use a real world name like John, Paul, George, Ringo, Bobby, Grace, Jack, well you get the idea here.

There would be a difference there as it is an actual name and not a said group or object to a big group of people. Skinheads are associated with racism and that is actually in a clause as being a problem. My name on the other hand isnt Skinhead or something you wouldnt normally name someone. There is a vast different between Lina being female parts in your language and SkinHead being a cultural racial epifet that offends entire race's and cultures of people.

Most people get the point of my name being an actual name. Where as skinhead really could of been a problem. My name wouldnt raise flags nor could they actually ask me to change it due to the fact that it is actually a LEGAL name for a person. If you named your child Skinhead in real life what would happen? There would be schooling issues and issues with people in real life. Dont try to compare a name that is an actual name in msot cultures if it helps better for you its pronounced Lee Na. I doubt thats how its spoken in your tounge.

Difference is most people know that Skinhead has racially connected undertones most people wouldnt know that lina means what you stated. And its seldom used in the english language as meaning such. I'll agree some discussion would of been better but its not up to LL to have to discuss that. Its a clause in the ToS that they can terminate service at any time they deem fit. They could boot us all out tommorow and give no warning if they really wanted to.

While i dont agree with how it was went about it was fully in LL's right to do so and an abuse report had to of been filed. And the name itself should of raised flags on creation and he should of been asked to leave or change it close to when he first got in. To many people here are running around saying it was just a linden kicking someone because that linden found the name offensive. I ask you to prove that to be the case.

Simply put none of us other then LL themselves know the whole truth of the matter not even the guy that was kicked knows 100% of what happened. I was jsut throwing in my knowledge here as a GM so there was no reason to try and attack me directly by using my name to fit your agenda. The name was offensive to enough people obviously to warrant this and you cannot prove otherwise.

I'll agree it should of been gone about differently however and should of been discussed. It wasnt neccessary but you attract more bee's with honey as they say =P. You gotta use soft gloves as a GM or in this case Linden. Sadly with the name skinhead it was kind of inevitable that he'd run into some trouble. This just kind of shows that you should be careful naming yourself after groups.

The Lindens should also delete the characters of anyone named 'Black'... they should force those people to use "African Linden" because in America, Black can be considered offensive by some groups. Indeed, maybe my good friend Pommie should be deleted too, since some Brits would be offended



If this truly happened, I believe LL owes Skinhead an apology and whatever of his property they can salvage.

My names banned because the possible communist leaning.

Check out the films 'No Skin Off My Ass' and 'Skin Flick' by gay Canadian filmmaker Bruce LaBruce, far removed from the usual expectations and stereotypes. 'No Skin Off My Ass' actually explains in voiceover the history of the skinhead and it's long association with black music (SKA).

The skinhead look in gay culture is long established, the exaggeration of male aggressiveness and sexuality being part of its obvious fetishistic attraction.

And let's not forget black, gay skinheads! Where do they fit in Linden Lab's utopian vision?

Lina, this is what I get from your post:

It doesn't matter what your name is because your name isn't offensive in your country. Just to Croats. It's also a -real- name, not like Skinhead.

Allow me to rebut:

It doesn't matter what Skinhead's name is because Skinhead isn't offensive in Skinhead's country. Just to uneducated Americans. And what does a real name have to do with anything, have you -seen- the names people come up with in SL?

LL were completely within their rights to shut down the guy's avatar without prior word. That is well within the scope of LL policy, but for crying out loud like a lost dog, was that the best thing to do? Did they think to perhaps ask the guy a few questions first? Perhaps negotiate a name change? Did they consider that their customer service rep is already garbage, and they need some seriously positive PR in that realm?

My next alt will be named 'Peckerwood' or 'Cracker' or --my favorite Caucasian epithet-- 'Casper'. Can they get me for that?

.R.

Interesting that Torley's response is not at all like her usual ones. Normally she is at pains to explain a situation, but in this response she puffs out a lot of smoke, and ultimately says that it's something that can only be discussed between LL and the resident. Whom they have banned.

As I said in another posting, it might well be the case that there is more to the issue than has been made apparent to us; we have after all only heard one side of the story.

However, if that is the case, then Torley should say so. Otherwise she appears to be making excuses for a peremptory and unjust decision.

As it is, none of us can feel secure. If the Lindens have arbitrarily started to ban residents for obscure reasons then we will all start to be afraid to do or say anything. Let them either have the good grace to admit they made a mistake, and put it right, or let them tell us that the version we have heard is not the full story.

One or the other, please!

QFE

As you all know, I can't comment on the specifics of an individual account or the decision that we made. But let me say this: Skinhead came to our attention for valid reasons and was asked to change his name, and did. Now he's actively involved in SL once again.

I know I've said this before, but before you jump to conclusions when something appears unfair, please try to remember that there are two sides to every story, and generally you're only hearing one side. It's tough to make some of these decisions, but we try hard to be as fair as we can be, and to work within the same community standards we ask you to follow.

I heard an interesting interview recently where someone (the founder of a Christian college for home-schooled students in the US) said that by banning hate-speech 'liberals' are actually guilty of the same intolerance they're purportedly trying to eliminate.

We disagree. We've taken the position here that symbols and other references to behaviors that belittle or defame whole groups of people in the real world work against the type of world we'd like to see SL become.

We have the opportunity to do better, and we've decided to go for it.

I imagine all of Robin's posts being written on feather-like parchement as she sits under the bodhi tree.

I feel enlightenment everytime she posts!

This is a quite unfortunate incident. However, to play Devil's Advocate for a moment, look at it from the perspective of LL.

Say they allow this gentleman back into SL with the name Skinhead.
What happens when someone who has something like GrandWizard such and such as a name. couldn't that be construed to have ties to the Ku-Klux Klan?

I guess my point is, allowing this name regardless of the person with the name's views would be a double standard with a policy to ban offensive names. I am sure that a lot of names that could be banned.

This is most unfortunate, but allowing one based on LL's "ignorance" could open the door for a lot more offensive names to be disputed in the case of a ban.


just my L$4 (approximately $.02)

That sounds very much as though you are stating that LL policy from this point on is going to be that anything inworld that fits LL's unpublished definitions of what amounts to belittlement or defamatory will be open to punitive action? Or am I completely misinderstanding?

Hmmm, come back George Orwell - where are you when we need you?

Still, looking on the bright side, a sizeable porportion of the AVs in SL will either be changing their names - or becoming unpersons shortly...

As for belittling people - bye bye Goreans...

I'll shut up now before something nasty happens

It appears that the international community is to be belittled under this stated policy.

If americans don't like it tough luck the rest of the world. Now is that not to belittle whole groups of people.

There is also comment on defame.

I wonder whether to decide all skinheads are racists is not a defamation.

It's hypocrytical, but at least it is clear.

LL decide what is OK based on.........

Well, I was about to climb down from this bandwagon anyway.

On the basis of having learned last night that there was more to this than met the eye, including (but not limited to) the fact that skinheads in Europe apparently aren't, as a group, as harmless as suggested they are in this thread.

coco

Quite right CoCo.

The first European skinhead you meet as just as likely to kick you to death with his DMs as the first black person you meet is to mug you and rape your wife...

Now please climb down carefully and have a nice day in stereotype-land

Robin,

Thank you for your response, even if it is a bit late.

However, the real issue, to me, was not to do with the fact that the name was found to be offensive. It was that the claim was made that the account was deleted without any warning or discussion.

I appreciate the fact that we have heard only one side, but what I find worrying is that one day a Linden might take offence to something I say or do and suddenly delete my account.

I appreciate the fact that you feel you cannot speak freely. But I have to say, in my experience transparency is the only thing that quells misapprehensions.

Doc, I have not made a study of this yet, so I would appreciate it if you would keep the belittling comments full of unwarranted conclusions to yourself.

I felt it necessarily to announce that I was climbing off the bandwagon until facts were known, and after I went to bed (very late) I was wishing I had taken the time to do it already.

I said there appears to be more than meets the eye, including, but not limited to, the fact that skinheads in Europe apparently aren't, as a group, as harmless as suggested they are in this thread. Meaning further study was warranted on my part.

Because as you may know, I very much support LL's policy of not allowing anti-semitic or racist names, objects, and actions in the game. That does not translate into any sort of stereotyping on my part.

The other aspect to it was something another poster alluded to earlier in this thread, and I didn't intend to, for obvious reasons. The third aspect was the possibility that LL had already taken care of this situation in a more equitable manner, which, as we see, Robin has said they did.

So kindly don't try to make anything stereotypical out of what I said. It was important that I withdraw my support for this cause until I learned more details.

coco

I'm sorry? LL took care of this situation in a more equitable manner? By forcing the guy to change his name because it didn't fit in with their unpublished standards of right and wrong?

Well sure, if you say so...

Look CoCo, in case you haven't noticed, Robin's post is notice that LL is going to pick and choose it's standards in a purely abritary fashion from some madly varying palette created by the SF hippie/liberal mob. Don't you find that just the tiniest bit worrying?

We have to stay within the rules - but the rules are arbitary and unwritten!

And this is a company that has managed to raise tens of millions in funding and expects us to pay dearly for it's 'services'.

Give us your money, oh, and play by the rules - which we won't tell you

Bah - I'm going for a walk before I blow a gasket - this is such utter crap!

As she floats in the air, 18 inches above the ground, sitting in the Lotus position.

P2

Wow! One game company, with 100K users, by banning or changing the name of ONE person, has the power to belittle the entire international community.

Wow. Just wow. Phear da powah!

Now you have me wondering if Philip utters the internationally renown villians laugh (muhahahahaha) every night before he goes to bed, such is his power to offend all of the rest of the world. I mean shit, this is some heady stuff!

Ok first off Black is also a color and is more commonly referenced to that as opposed to people of african american persuasion. Ill bring up what Robin said as well. You only know one side of the story here. There could be alot more to it but they are not allowed to say. We only hear his side of it and you jump on LL for it. And no the policy change isnt on international people but consider a name before you do it a bit more. Some names in SL may be odd sure but most arnt really offensive at all.

Just because someone doesnt know all the international group of the word skin head they are uneducated american's. Well pardon but most people that are educated are NOT taught that in the united states that doesnt mean they are uneducated. The point here is LL was within their rights to do so. They could of went around it differently but like Robin said again we dont know the whole story. While he may have good standing with some people that may not be so for everyone.

It may be sad but it was all within their policy. There is a difference between the name skinhead and the name black as well. Most people arnt going to take black to mean african american by default unless you are speaking directly to someone of that persuasion. I myself understand the reasoning behind people finding the name skinhead offensive as i have had run-in's with that set group of people before and it was a hurtful experience. Someone that hasnt gone thru that or dealt with that group may not understand it, but you get the point there.

I was not offering my own opinion on the matter but rather what policy stipulates. My personal feelings is that things could have been gone around differently. I wont make up a total opinion because frankly i dont know the linden's side of the story thus making it impossible. Alot of you construde it out of proportion and you dont actually know all the facts. Its all just opinion and the guys side of the story which of course is going to be harsh towards LL as he doesnt really wanna be banned.

If it was jsut a name infraction I'd think it highly likely that something would be done to change that im pretty sure there is alot more to it then simply that but thats information we dont know and we wont know. All im saying look at it from LL's view point instead of this guys. You gotta take it that there are always 2 sides of the equation especially when forming opinions about the company that did so. Re-read the ToS and you will see that LL were actualyl within their rights. Ill note also most people dont bother reading them. Im forming an argument from stuff i know and have experience in rather then jsut simply stating an opinion.

I was putting in what was what from experience yet someone felt the need to bring my own name into it. That was uncalled for really its not like i was attacking you or even giving an opinion.