Sad Story

If Skin has harassed his neighbors (and me being his original one from day one almost that he's opened his mall area), then why hasn't he harassed me? Now I feel slighted -sniffs-

Everyone has covered the political view well, and I am not going to go into a political debate on 'skinheads' or what they are about or the different meanings for cultures.

He's been my neighbor for many months, anyone can look on the map in Bora and see he surrounds me completely. And my lil shop delves into his mall space in one area of land that I purchased.

He's been nothing but kind, helpful, informative and a sweet natured guy. He's always a gentlemen willing to lend a hand, listens to any complaints or concerns I've had and fixed whatever was bothering me promptly.

He's far from what I know about skinheads in America to be (I don't know it all nor would I ever want to) ... look at what he's built, what he's done and what he continues to do and am sure all would agree.

Jealousy plays a big part in online relationships, and cause quite a disastrous effect if one follows through with an 'abuse report'. This anonymity is protection on the wrong end. If a person knows what he/she means, and means what he/she says than such an act is not needed. I would have no qualms if I filed a report against anyone in having my name stated as such the person who did so. And perhaps in the long run it would have some who file them think twice... One should always think twice.

There are a ton of people here that put a lot of time and effort into what they do... which in effect shines a bright light on SL. To think that all that we create can be taken at whim for one formal or informal complaint sure makes me think *twice* about creating a higher tier fee and putting more effort into something I enjoy.

Seems SL is protected through and through... what about us? If second life is what we would 'like' it to be, then where's Judge Wapner & Judge Judy (ok so I dated myself here! LOL) and the court system.

He's paid for his account, his account was made on SL end... he purchased that name so to speak. So why can't he use it? OOOOOOOOOhhhhh cause one person complained. Ahem... how old was this complainer? Is he/she someone who is in SL for a long time... is it someone two months old? We have no clue do we.

So yes, what has happened to Skimi (Skinhead) makes me rethink my options on SL.

I've been a neighbor of his for ages, yet no one ever asked me my opinion of him or what he's done before booting his arse.

So, in effect, the complaint was logged... and acted upon.

I don't like trouble, I don't want to be in trouble...but I hate injustice.

Get to know someone before you complain people... And just remember one lil thing... 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'. That quote seems to fit doesn't it.

I think from here on out that I'll keep my tier fees and time involved in SL based upon what I'm willing or can afford to lose.

-shrugs-

I'm sorry this happened to you Skimi... you're a great person and I've seen what you've done from the get go for SL.

PS this is supposed to be a stand alone post, not commenting or attached to another's.. if it's not - that's my inadequacies of knowing how to post .... oh, and it was spell checked.. English is my first language but I'm not perfect, I do make mistakes -fans the smoke from her spell checker so she can finish her post-

Skimi.. keep building as you are building.. I, for one, think you're doing a WONDERFUL job!

I run a small club in Yongnam as well as have a home in Bora. At no time did I feel harrassed by Skinhead Mission or his friends.

That being said, I'd like to put my opinion in here as well. Skinhead did buy up most of Bora stopping my nefarious plans of buy Bora all to myself ...now I have no place to put put my 250,000 megawatt nuclear power generator. Sad...I know. Now i have to look at the beautifully made !BOYZ POINT MALL in my backyard and grumble.

In all seriousness, I don't know the full story behind having Skinhead change his name; but I do know that it COULD have been a misunderstanding. For instance...because he did buy up a lot of Bora, many people might have felt threatened that he wanted to buy up all of Bora for his mall. Too many in SL use ugly tactics to force residents to sell property cheap. There was an incident involving a very bright flying casino next to a residents home; but other than that, I know of no other case of tension between him and other residents.

Now, if you will excuse me, I have find a place to put up a third rate, poorly run, poorly maintained, very shaky and radioactive nuclear power plant (got the plans in my hands from Chernobyl).

Very interesting statement to think about!

Defaming someone seems to be quit easy in Sl.

I have interesting answers from some of Skinheads Neighbours and I go on collecting.

The only reason I can see why SL does not open the "file" to the public is, that they have been missleaded by slander and that the defamers do not want to be known in the public. But if so, why did Sl listen to them and take his long worn name as the reason to ban him?

In Germany we have a very interesting and important principle:

No one is guilty until his guilt is prooved by a neutral judge.

We have had a sad part of our history when it was not like this in RL-Germany.

First off the name change was a proper thing to ask. As Robin has previously stated its a term that is often assosciated with a certain group that to put it kindly have alot of social problems. They attack set groups of people and that is most likely why the name was asked to be changed. It wasnt a proper name plain and simple. Anyone culturally open or not pretty much knows that skin heads are associated with anti-semetic actions.

While in some other cultures this may not be so you do have to understand the situation it puts LL themselves in. He's still in the game they asked him to change his name according to the statements here. So what is the big deal? He made a name that may not of had a big impact for him but effects over 6 million people in the states and that is just counting the jewish population. Everyone states that LL should of been more culturally understanding at first so shoudlnt that really apply on both ends?

LL had the right to ask him to change the name. If i were a linden i'd of done the same thing most likely and if he was asked to change his name big deal really. Its a culturally sensitive name to alot of people and while it may not hurt some of you it does hurt others.

It's funny that we, meaning those around him, weren't consulted, asked, informed, inquired etc about him.

I've never felt a threat or been threatened by him (Skimi) in the least. I can name a few whom I can't say the same about but I'd never report them for being an ass or a (insert your own negative adjective here). He built a great place in Bora, I had my first land there and continue to support that region. I have no thought of moving anytime in the near or distant future. As far as neighbors go... I woudn't trade him for the world. He's good for the community, had done well for SL and pays his bills on time like all who have tiers.

A few of my friends (not in Bora) have had horrific neighbors, were threatened to sell their land.. were bullied etc. We can't all get along, but we can try.

SL is for fun... when chyte like this happens it ceases to be what it was made for... okokokok so on SL side it's the $$$$.

I do say, and this is for the record, SOMETHING needs to be done to protect those who were reported... what 'if' it is a jealousy issue? All in a fit of rage lil Miss So-and-So reports Mister Big-bad-meanie cuz he wouldn't fluff her feathers... so Mister BBM gets banned.

How do we know it's not that in these 'reporting' instances? We don't... the party reporting is protected and the one reported is atcted upon.

So buyers beware, don't piss no one off... you could be next.

-shrugs-

P.S. - Livinda...would appreciate that you time your nuclear power blast for winds not blowing towards my property

Ah yes, the Austrian and his 'NSDAP'...
The S in NSDAP standing for 'socialist' of course...

Odd isn't it how, even 80 years ago, authoritarian types seeking to impose their will on others cloaked their intention with the 'socialist' tag...
And they made people disappear into 'Night and Fog' too, no trial, no transparency...

As you say Herbert, a sad period, but one from which we can learn much. Thank you for providing that reminder of what must still be a painful episode for you.

FYI, there are approximately 6,522,981,463 people in the world today.
Making your 6 million Jewish Americans something of a minority group.
Of course if SL were a highly nationalistic organisation, and the rest of the world didn't matter alongside America (which it often seems it doesn't to many of the rest of us), then it would be 6 million out of 299,007,173 Americans - STILL a pretty small proportion.

I think to MOST people, both world-wide and in America, Skinhead is a fairly innocuous term. What I'd really like to know is, what's YOUR personal problem with it? Because your continual harping on about those 6 million outraged Americans is beginning to sound a little bit like someone round here is riding a hobby horse... Almost like discrimination in fact...

Ah, you mean like having a trial, with a jury of peers?
WHAT a novel idea!
Then justice might be seen to be done. Well, what you have to remember is that LL don't need to bother about all that. They are always right, anyone who disagrees is always wrong, and because they are always right, what's the point of anything remotely resembling transparency or due process?

Let's take this from the beginning.. This is SL's world, they deem the rules. First off if this sorta chat realm was 'my' creation and I wanted to block certain names, terms or other that may or not effect the population there should be a 'name filter' installed so that name wouldn't of been allowed in the first place. Secondly, he had his name for many months before any so called allegations or 'report' was made...

It's SL's side for not considering that option in the first place. There are filters any scripter can put in on the sign up side that would hinder such creation. Or a daily check of 'new' names created by some Linden could've stopped this on short order a day after he created his account... not months.

Do they have the right to ask him? Perhaps... But doesn't he have a right to be called what he wants?

Quoting past experiences isn't going to change anything. The past is in the past, and perhaps his using that name would shed some light to others thinking bad about it also and see someone doing some good for a change...

Who knows, we for sure never will..it was never given a chance.

I live in the same house like skinhead and two more german sler and I am jewish.


My first point is

If some racist people attack me for antisemitic reasons I would call a skinhead to help me and no pussycat

my second point is

do not speak for a jewish population, becourse it is as heterogen (different) as any other population (also meaning they are not all stupid, uninformed and only listening to gossip...).

After I was reading about this skinhead-story here and knowing skinhead mission (Michael) personaly I knew that I am a skinhead too. .

That would be a grand idea, but my meaning was quite simple and more leaning towards 'Common Sense'... tho granted not many may have that...

Those who live in Bora or the surrounding areas were never asked what he was like, if he did anything wrong etc... Character References is a term that may be applied here.

I'll be more than happy to be a judge of differences Just call me Judge Thelx! -winks-

But wouldn't of asking his neighbors what he was like to begin with maybe perchance hindered all this hogwash political bullmalarky?

Do you think someone with the name Angel is indeed an angel? pffffffffffts I doubt it.

I don't let someones name hinder my opinion of him first off... I take the time, get to know then on all I know my opinion if formed... I don't care if you're green, pink, yellow, striped or invisible... it's what's inside that counts.

Unless of course you're fulla ...err that's a totally different topic ;p

Post in response to Thelxepeia Danton.

Original Quote:
I do say, and this is for the record, SOMETHING needs to be done to protect those who were reported... what 'if' it is a jealousy issue? All in a fit of rage lil Miss So-and-So reports Mister Big-bad-meanie cuz he wouldn't fluff her feathers... so Mister BBM gets banned.

How do we know it's not that in these 'reporting' instances? We don't... the party reporting is protected and the one reported is atcted upon.

So buyers beware, don't piss no one off... you could be next.

-shrugs-


I, for one, have been the victim of false reporting because of jealousy or some other reason for angering a resident. It's to easy to accuse someone of being underage, intolerant behavior, or some such. And the fact is, LL doesn't train their employees in the tenents of concept of "Due Process". We as resident and paying customers do deserve the right to Due Process...a way of presenting our cases before someone.

Maybe we should get Judge Judy to come and hear the cases...and maybe I should become a lawyer (GASP) here and charge an arm and a leg for my services as well...maybe.

The point is that the Lindens have no set of rules to abide by, each Linden has the power to ban any resident they feel they have to; but none have the sense or training necessary to FAIRLY do so...and each one will back each other up as well so they don't lose their jobs.

Perhaps a petition is in order, by the PAYING residents, to have a "Court of Second Life" setup for such arbitrations

Thanks for the charming inworld IM, Nolan.

If it is charming, why does he not share it with all of us?

I haven't been in this thread since Skinhead came back under Skimi... and I just wanted to say a few things that have sparked within me since reading responses and the bantering which goes on

to echo Gefillte Fish.. for pete's sake don't speak on sweeping generalizations of this group of people or that group of people believe this or that... for me... there are many labels which could fit.. and nearly everyone of them has been attacked or belittled in this thread and I find it saddening.

I am an American mutt (mixed european-esque descent) and I don't adhear to the idea that skinhead=racists. So please stop saying most Americans believe that until you run a census covering a population size that would produce a bell-curve proving that it is skewed in the direction that you say. Maybe because I am part of the subculture and I have a firm grasp on what it means to hold that label. I also don't hold to the idea that any other country is represented by the thoughts of a few.. ie.. Americans are ignorant... hehe I don't feel that I'm ignorant.. but in many cases I am, like.. I dont know the presidents in many countries, currencies of the world.. many things...

If skinhead mission's crime was bannable by LL standards, as they say, wouldnt he have lost all his items and land just as anyone else that was banned? Yet they allowed him to keep all his stuff and have it all placed under the new name? Does this always happen.. like the intollerant people from the police blooter can come back and get all their stuff back and renamed to their new account?! Somehow.. I think not.

I feel there is no malfeseance in skinhead.. and am still appalled at the enforcing of the name change... somewhere I envision Levar Burton saying my name is Kunta Kinte

Wouldn't work.

Their concept of due process would be to appoint their favorite residents as judge and jury.

coco

Aw shucks! Favoritism! I didn't get one, charming or otherwise...

furthermore...

I have read the accounts they claim AR's are useless.. and I believe this since I had the worlds worst neighbor, whom shall remain nameless, curse at me and my guests, shoot at us, extend objects into my land that could not do anything about and place images on there I found inappropriate. I placed many AR's, contacted live help (who told me to place more AR's), blah blah blah... all this to say that she still has her account, her land.. and now mine bc I sold it to her at a grossly inflated rate, so Im happy about that haha..

So.. if it was the case that skinhead was causing trouble I have a feeling that AR's wouldnt have gotten him banned so swiftly

Instead, I have a slight feeling that this was a kneejerk reaction stemming from the intolerance of other individuals that has been reported in the police blotter in recent times..

Well at least that'd let you and me off jury duty

As I don't know you, I can vouch you didn't hear it from me, either.

Skinhead and I had disagreements in the past yes. But that stuff is solved now, and has been for a while. Livinda mentioned the incident that got us set off - the casino. And that was solved without any Linden involvement or a single abuse report that I know of.

All I can say is this looks like a bunch of stirring the pot. The neighborhood is happy and at peace now, leave it like that.

First off its an example ok? That go thru with you at all. The fact is and Im quitong Robin here

We disagree. We've taken the position here that symbols and other references to behaviors that belittle or defame whole groups of people in the real world work against the type of world we'd like to see SL become.

See that? That makes the point valid. Skinhead is quite often associated with an anti-semetic group. So what the people that take offense to that in the real world are just supposed to stop taking offense to it? LL did the right thing. I'm shocked by people thinking its right that he named himself that. First off while it may be culturally accepted where he is from PEOPLE from ALL OVER the world play this game.

Think about that for a minute. While he may not be racist himself the name is a reference to something else and justly would be shut down. Any other online service would of done the same thing. While it may be fine and dandy to you there are alot of people that take it as an offensive reference and really shouldnt have to deal with it. LL asked him to change his name big whoop.

He signed the ToS and that does mean abiding by certain rules. While it may not mean much to you people saying the LL is all wrong etc. They did the right thing by asking him to change his name. Regardless of what you think thats a cold hard fact. Its not really intollerent of people not to accept the name skinhead. Considering the reference its associated with for certain groups of people it is grossly unfair to judge SL as being in the wrong here.

Though this name should of raised a flag almsot right after it was made. However regardless of that even if an AR wasnt posted against this person them asking him to change the name isnt really a kneejerk reaction at all. Instead its policy for them and its something they do have to uphold. If they let one person go with a name to reference a certain group that can potentially emotionally hurt people to a degree where things are really bad then yes a name need to be changed.

You can attack my comments all you want but it was just of LL to ask him to change his name. Anyone who argues otherwise doesnt know the effect just hearing a name referencing to a group can have on the group they prey on. Mabye if you witnessed some of the pain it causes mabye then you would understand why the name needed to be changed.

Yes. Because they're taking offence based on an stereotype that has nothing to do with reality. Or perhaps we should just cater for everyone's stereotypes?


Except that to people all over the world, "skinhead" means no such thing.


Oh, this is just repeating the same thing over and over again.

LL thought the mere use of the word "skinhead" was a racist reference. They were provably wrong. It's not a country thing, it's true all across the world. Anyone who continues to defend that is wrong. That stuff isn't in doubt - anyone who knows anything at all about skins knows that and the only people who argue are those who don't.

The irony is that they let blatant, proper White Power types continue and ignore ARs about them, and just pick on names based on tabloid hysteria.

See the problem is while you may not take offense there are alot of people that do. They are supposed to take it for the sake of 1 guy keeping the name? And next i highly doubt he was actually banned they probably asked him to change his name gave him the stuff and deleted the other account. While you may find enforcing the name change appaling it really isnt. Considering it does belittle a set group of people it falls in with what robin said.

Irregardless of what we think again we dont know all the facts so we cant really point a finger here or there. I will say though if i found the name offensive and alot of other people found it offensive because it attacks my race, religion or whatever I for one would want something done. While we may not like it LL was just in their decision to do so and you all point your fingers but he was allowed to keep his stuff so why even bother arguing it.

Its not a matter of him being racist or the name he chose having a different impact where he is from. It matters that the name does belittle a real world RACE of people. I do not expect them to just curl up and take the blunt of it cuz someone decided to name themselves a name such as skinhead. For people that expect everyone else to be culturally understand you yourselves are close minded to the impact it has on a set group of people and think it wasnt just that he got his name changed simply because the meaning he meant didnt fit in with what people might think?

You gotta understand LL's side of this a bit more before you start pointing a finger at them. Look at where they are coming from.

But should the people that base it off a stereo type that find it offensive have to put up with it for 1 person? Put yourself in a companies shoes for a minute and look at the broader aspect of it. There are some people that take offense to the fact that he is named skinhead. As it is a reference to a racist group none the less even if it has a different meaning and that meaning could be worldwide.

Its taken in context people dont know directly what he means by skinhead and they can only assume what the meaning he is going for is. Those that take offense to it as attacking their race or religion do have rights you know. I highly doubt you know the validity of my argument because your only looking at it from an international standpoint. Think about the people it does hurt for a minute. What are they supposed to do? Are they supposed to just roll over and take it? I may repeat myself but thats because you dont seem to understand what im getting at saying it 1 time.

People are going to take offense to the name and again any other online service be it international or otherwise would of done the same thing. Even if it is based off a stereotype that exists. Its like saying its ok just cuz he didnt mean a thing by it. I wouldnt expect you to take it if you took offense to it even if i knew it was sterotypical because i know the effect things like this can have on people. They shouldnt have to deal with it no one should.

If you think LL's policy is unjust then go argue it with one of them but i find it to be very just and i find it fair that they asked him to change the name. They could of just booted him out without saying a word to but they asked him to change his name and Let him keep his stuff. So e has to have a different name so some people dont take offense. Again i ask you what is the big deal?

What is the big deal? LL ban people because they don't know what a word means?

Well, hell, in my country "Lina" means "gas chamber". What's more, I saw it on TV. You're banned!