do i or dont i own land i bought & paid for from Anshe Chung

You can transfer the control of your land ownership group to another person without any help from staff. You then just need inform us whom you sold the land to, so we can confirm that person has received our notecards and subscribed tier.

I honestly don't care how much handwaving people do, I most certainly do NOT own the land I currently have in Dreamland.

If I owned it, I wouldn't have to go through the "process" to buy or sell it.

I knew exactly what I was doing when I bought into it, so I have no complaints about how it's run.

But that said, I'm "selling" that land and it's gonna be a bit of a hassle, since I can't just sell land -> get cash.

Half price, how generous.

I guess it sort of bugs me that if someone honestly made a mistake as seems to be in this case, that the wouldn't get close to a full refund, less some administrative cost.

It's not like that land isn't going to be "sold" again.

Just as one note: When the person contact me about sell his land "as quick as possible" and tell me he did "not care about money" I was actually not aware when he had bought the land, nor can I remember him mention to me it was mistake or any of the other things he posted on this thread. This is what makes me wonder if somebody actually trying to set me up on purpose: there was no attempt in world at bringing up some problem to my attention or asking me to help rectify some mistake. The same day, in fact, I bought land back on mainland for full price from somebody who accidently had purchased it.

Ok, so let me ask you this. What is your specific buy-back policy?

At ANSHECHUNG.COM we always strife to improve our products, we work hard and mind our own business [/QUOTE]

As I have said to you in the past, I am not leaving! This is a forum and anyone is allowed to post if they live up to the TOS. And, if I see what I perceive to be an injustice I will post when I want to. If that is not minding my own business, sorry.

I do not see your Customer Service as being improved by the actions that have been taken by Anshechung.com

Well, call it how you want: you are trying to malign one competitor. Not my style, but if you need to, nobody going stop you.

Stopping reading here to comment.

Yes, Nexus Nash did and does refer to his sales as"purchase price" and to the activity as "buying land."

When I "bought" my land from Nexus Nash, I was given to understand that I could then resell it if I wanted to, and keep any profit that I wanted to. I also understood that if I just stopped paying "tier" each week, they would just take the land back.

So what I did right then and there, before I "bought" the land, was mentally write off the whole purchase price.

I knew that a time could come when I wanted or needed to "sell" the land to someone else, and might not be able to. And there was no mention of them ever buying the land back from me if I needed to sell right away. Nor did I expect any intention of such.

Now I was only a month or so old, and on a basic account, when I bought this land from Nexus. But it didn't take me having a degree in rocket science to understand what the deal was.

I agreed to the deal, knowing full well that the downside could be that someday I might need to sell desperately and immediately (not having the money to pay the "tier," for instance) and would have to just write off the purchase price, unless I could get Nexus to reimburse me some of it.

But I was ALSO fully aware that I could also sell the same plot for 100k, if I wanted to and could, and I could keep the entire profit from that for myself.

coco

P.S. Having said all that, I was still against listing these types of deals in the "buy land" portion of the Find, and still am. I do consider that to be misleading, to be setting up the whole deal at the get-go in a misleading way, before you even get to the part about the details, in the notecards, and in talking to the Sim owner, etc. But that's a different issue.

P.S. Bear in mind that this is the SAME DEAL you get when you buy land from the Lindens, or from another player. Either you manage to sell it yourself, or you eat the purchase price.

I encourage people to sell land to other residents.

As operator of the grid I currently allow people release their land for half of what they paid, which usually makes them take loss of 2-2.4 L$ per sqm. I think that is much better deal than what Linden Lab provides in the mainland grid - there people get nothing if they press "release".

As comparison, most people who buy mature waterfront land on mainland and sell it to land barons take bigger hit per sqm.

BTW, that's a wholly different situation. There is no way to accidentally buy land in dreamland.

I have no need to be after you. Please read all the posts and you should see how people feel about what has been done in the name of business to a person.

We are not in competition. At least I do not see it that way at all. We have only 10 sims, that is nothing to you, or should not be. I am certainly not looking to take business away from you, I do not go looking for people, they come to me. Any until the new sims arrive I have no islands to offer to anyone.

You know what? You are just saying that renting is better than "buying."

Some of us WANT to "buy" from Nexus Nash and others. Some of us want the ability to resell for a profit and keep the profit ourselves. I think I did a pretty good thing in investing in Nexus Nash. I think if I wanted to sell my land in Azure Islands, and I had time to do so, I could make a very, very nice profit!

You are basically criticizing the buying option because it isn't the renting option.

Some of us WANT the buy option. If I had wanted to merely rent, I would have. And that was when I had very, very little money, and was just a basic player one month old.

coco

So if I am reading you correctly then a sub-lessee cannot freely transfer parcels leased from AnsheChung.com to another player. Thanks for the "clarification".

You surely aren't suggesting, Coco, that because you had it explained, and understood, anyone who doesn't is stupid, and deserves all they get ? Even if it was the explanation which was lacking ? Isn't morality about protecting even the slightly more vulnerable people from possible abuse ?


Its most definitely not a different issue, just an aspect of the same one. It's a major matter for concern. Bait-and-switch, as you seem to agree, Coco. Very dubious business practice which should be stamped out by LL, since the "bait" is something only LL and their system software can in fact do - ie transfer land ownership.

I am saddened to learn from your post that Nexus, also, is using this misleading language of "land sale". Thats two. Any more ?

No I am criticising the buy option because it IS the renting option.

As I understand it (I could be wrong), the reason I have to go through Nexus Nash in order to sell my land has to do with the way the Lindens have set up the land system, not anything Nexus is doing to mislead or be deceptive.

coco

And that would be the system in which LL see the sim owner as the.....owner?

Wrong. One land owner can freely transfer the parcel by transfering the land ownership group. So, even though this is just technical detail, in fact land transfer is possible without us help. When somebody wants transfer the land to different group our staff will assist.

However, and this is same as on mainland: if you buy land you have to subscribe tier and agree to the terms of service and the zoning rules. This is true in PG sims on mainland or zoned sims like Boardman. It is true in Dreamland sims. I met people who bought PG land or bought in zoned Linden sims and did not know the terms. They were unhappy and had to sell with loss. Because I want things work better in Dreamland, I try make sure that people who buy from residents also get informed about the terms of the sims as soon as possible. So usually I encourage people to ask for our assistance when they sell land. But it is not about asking for permission to sell. It is just about us helping both parties avoid misunderstandings and assist with technical matters.

We informed Lindens in February what we plan to do, before starting Dreamland. In March people in Dreamland were able to set their parcels for sale and have it appear in the land finder and on the world map. Only more than one month later and after Dreamland had grown to more than 20 sims and prices on the mainland had dropped did Linden Lab disable that option.

No, I am saying if I got it, at that age, that most people, given the explanation and the notecards can get it.

Since Anshe gives the explanation and the notecards, and Nexus does also (and any others), and neither of them has any desire or need to not make it clear the way they do, then there is no problem.

It's not really misleading language. It is clear that you can either buy, or rent. It is clear that it isn't the same as buying from LL. It is clear that you pay "tier" to the real landowner. What else would you call it? I figure they call it "buying" because that is the closest and most accurate way to put it. You get to RESELL. Which you don't if you just rent.

Having it listed in "Land for Sale" in Find is a different issue. Because in "Find" there is no distinction between "buying" from the landholder and buying from the Lindens.

When Azure Islands was listed in Find as "for sale" I can't tell you how many people I dealt with each night who wanted to know why they couldn't just click on the property there. If anything, there should be a new category put in the "Find": Buy Land from Private Land Seller. That would at least clue the person in that this setup was different, and I wouldn't have had to do all that explaining. But I don't think they allow this anymore, so that part of the discussion is a moot point.

coco

I can understand you being upset that the ability to list them as sales was removed, only IF if you was misled by LL. Even when you could list in the land sales, you still couldn't actually transfer ownership of plots to another.

I am glad this conversation came up again. It's something that I spent some time contemplating.

The bottom line is that while buying land in a private sim is relatively easy. For some it serves a purpose, the zoning and low price. But two things negatively impact on this whole situation.

1. The difficulty in selling. And no Coco, this is not some fault of the Lindens. When I want to sell, I lost $L27K because I didn't get no where near the price I bought for, but I realized this would happen.

2. The availability of really "renting" without paying any up front fee. When I realized people were doing this, I thought that this was a great deal. I had the same tools, the same access, the same monthly payment, but no upfront money. This actually scared me because I realized this business model made so much sense and that if I didn't get my money out of Dreamland right away, I would not be able to get it back at all.

Both are renting. There can be no argument about this. You will not get your full price back from the version of up front payment. Anyone who has, I would love to know about. But it has been my experience that when you are ready to move it, you will have to take a loss.

The real "renting" is the only logical way to me. Unless the zoning part is more important.

What I don't understand is how the people who don't charge an upfront fee can do it and if they can do it with no problems, then everyone charging an up front fee must be making a killing.

Just my 2 Lindens, I could be wrong.

This made me laugh.

Well, then I disagree with your definition. I have "bought" my land and it definitely ISN'T the buying option. I now have beautiful property overlooking the boardwalk and the bay in a wonderful set of Sims. And if I want to, I can SELL it.

And KEEP the profit.

I couldn't do that if I were renting from Nexus, which, like Anshe, he also offers.

coco

Yes. Because the residents have gone beyond what the Lindens offered, and innovated new options which the interface doesn't yet allow for. (Did I use the word interface correctly?)

And by the way, I am probably mistaken about how to sell my Azure Islands land. I probably could just transfer group ownership, as you can in Dreamland. But of course they would want me to make sure the new buyers understood exactly how the system works.

coco