do i or dont i own land i bought & paid for from Anshe Chung

Anshe is not confused. Her use of this language is totally deliberate, for reasons you must conclude for yourself.

When she started doing this the Lindens announced that these were rentals, not sales, but Anshe responded aggressively with several forum posts asserting her rights to use this term despite the official ruling against it.

I campaigned vigorously in forum against what I saw (and still see) as a highly dubious business practice. But I got nowhere. My fear is that many people are being misled, as was the threadstarter - but of course I can't prove it. Anyone care to take up the cudgels ? I gave up on this in exhaustion some months ago.

MQ - I would very much like to see these notecards describing the buying process - and presumably the selling process too. Presumably there is nothing private about them. If you could post them here then those of us who feel concern coukld have a look to see if we think they do in fact represent the situation fairly and clearly.

Perhaps if MQ for some reason prefers we don't see them in public, then some tenant might like to post them instead ?

Another good renter is Nexas Nash on Azule Islands, there is an upfront fee but much lower monthly rates (paid in lindens) that come out to much cheaper than mainland land.

Upfront fee is optional -- it helps us cover a small portion of our setup fees (about 1/5th), but we offer plain rental as well (which is between 20-30% more weekly, but without any setup fee, long term though, paying the setup fee of L$1/sqm offers more attractive pricing)

-Adam

hi Kismet, I am sorry to hear about your sitauation... but yes you are correct.. it isnt really your land

Asri and I, like Hiro... do not charge any up front fees, so there is no "buying" of land, you simply just pay the "tier"/ "rent"... However there are others like Anshe that make you BUY it before you can rent it, which I have never understood... although in Anshe's defense she is usually a reasonable woman and hopefully she will help you resell your rented land... best of luck to you

This is true. They also reserve the right to cancel your account at any time for no reason, keep your money and return your land to auctionable status oh wait sorry, I thought you were talking about Linden Lab. It's as true for them as it is Anshe.

Here's a difference though. We have no more rights or enforceable contract with LL than Dreamland residents do AnsheChung.com. LL, however, use the term "sell" without reservation and claim openly that we "own" land we are only renting on their terms at their pleasure. Maybe if Anshe added a paragraph to her notecard explaining that she might just ban you from Dreamland at any time for no reason and with no refund or appeal that would even things out and make everyone happy.

Tony Beckett and I own sims and RENT our islands. There are no up front fees at all. We make it very clear to each person renting from us that they do not own the land, because we do not sell our land. We pass each person a note card containing info on our sims. If they have not already taken a note card they can also visit our web site to find out more about us and what we offer. the web site is dAlliez.com

We do not have people working for us and I believe the Customer Service we offer to our renters is very well done. I would welcome any of you to tour the dAlliez sims and talk with the ppl living there. Currently, we own 10 sims and have one piece of property for rent.

By the way Kismet welcome to Nantucket dAlliez It is a pleasure to have you with us.

if a player cannot find a buyer on the main grid, they are also confronted with the problem of having to just let the land go public or to sell it for less then they want, or to hold on and keep paying tier.

the only real difference is LL provides means for buyers and sellers to find each other with land classifieds on the forum. why doesn't the anshechung.com website have a classified forum for people to sell their land on it like the LL forum does? players could post their plots like thay do on this forum and sell them for a little less than they bought it for. new players would prefer it because it would be cheaper than buying new land directly from anshe. by providing a forum and advertising it on the homepage and inworld, dreamland could help support the market value for it's land as LL does for it's land.

Dreamland rental: 2048sqm for 15 US$ rent per month
d'Alliez/Hiro rental: 2048sqm for 15 US$ rent per month
Dreamland owning: 3072sqm for 15 US$ per month tier after purchase

The fact that since months we also offer same rental deal that our competitors offer, but people in 50 sims choose our superior land ownership deal instead speaks volumes. The fact that still some people try to peddle their rental deal to people by telling them they would have to choose between "pay Anshe" and get free from them speak even more volumes. And that they even do it here bares any further comment.

I truly appreciate people who innovate and create something new or better to compete. I would like to see more of that in Second Life! People with a great product can talk about a great product. They talk about their own attractive offerings and do so in their own threads.

How you can call it superior is quite frankly beyond my comprehension.

Alexa

Maybe I'm misreading your writing here, but this is not your thread. Sure, they're talking about your 'product'. That's because the original poster is taking issue with, and is confused by, the way you operate.

Ellie made a good point about how LL announced that your land agreements are rentals, not land purchases in the same way mainland is 'bought'. I wonder why you are allowed to continue refering to it as purchases instead of rentals.

Just curious.

-Ghoti

One Linden employee called it "rental" while later another Linden Lab employee listed it correctly as "sales".

People purchase one deed that they are allowed to sell to other residents. Some have even done so making profit. It is the same thing Linden Lab offer as "land ownership" on the mainland. The tools are different (because of Linden Lab) as is the business you deal with, but the principle is the same. A commodity that can be traded is owned. Land in Dreamland is being traded between residents.

The fact that we also offer a normal rental option strengthens the point.

I remember...

Can you explain then why the original poster is having difficulty selling her land?

Alexa

For me the significant issue is one of avoiding any possibility of the renter misunderstanding the true nature of the deal, Adam.

Can you tell us please, do you use the same language as Anshe adamantly insists her right to do, despite Linden statements to the contrary ?

Do you ever present the upfront fee as a "purchase price" and the activity as "buying land" ? Or is Anshe the only one doing this ?

If you use with the client the language in your quote, (ie "setup fee" then that is good because no-one can mistakenly imagine that they are buying the land.

Anshe,

I've stayed out of this for the most part. I bought land from you and thought that 16k for $L80K was a good deal. The zoning you do is good for those who need such things.

I'm just writing because I am confuses about your quote above. I paid $75 tier for 16k of land. The same I am paying on Hiro Queso's land without an upfront payment. So did this discount only apply to the $15 level? If not, am I due some sort of retro payment?

Can you explain why some people on mainland have difficulty selling their land? Every day I buy 50000 sqm of land there from people who usually take serious loss.

Tier rates in Dreamland are cheaper than standard Linden tier for tier size up to 13312sqm. From 13313sqm-32768 sqm it is same rate as mainland tier. You can find rates on our website

Well, for a start, if she had bought land on the mainland, it would be hers and not yours. Far easier for her to sell and no comparison.

If you had an ounce of compassion, you would 'buy' this land back from her. I am also very concerned as to how many other people who have 'purchased' Anshe's land are aware of the circumstances of their purchase.

I think the whole thing sucks.

Alexa

LL:
US$195.00/month 65,536 Entire Region
US$125.00/month 32,768 1/2 Region
US$75.00/month 16,384 1/4 Region
US$40.00/month 8,192 1/8 Region
US$25.00/month 4,096 1/16 Region
US$15.00/month 2,048 1/32 Region
US$8.00/month 1,024 1/64 Region
US$5.00/month 512 1/128 Region
US$0/month 0 0/128 Region

AC:
Tier Fee 1024sqm 8 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 3072sqm 15 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 5120sqm 25 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 9216sqm 40 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 13312sqm 60 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 16384sqm 75 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 32768sqm 125 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 49152sqm 170 US$ monthly
Tier Fee 65536sqm 215 US$ monthly

It seems to me that between 3072 and 16384 you are getting a better deal then with LL. Anywhere else, you are paying the same or more. I wonder if it would be possible to do something like this on the mainland. Have one person pay the discounted higher price, and have others "rent" your tier and have it added their group?

No I am not the only one. If I am not mistaken, then at least Gigas and Linden Lab do the same thing.

OK since you want to get all comparative, I'll bite

Do you have to pay a purchase price?

Dreamland:Yes
Hiro/d'Alliez: No

Do you need to find someone to take on your land when you wish to leave? (and if you dont want to lose your L$, someone willing to pay the purchase price)

Dreamland:Yes
Hiro/d'Alliez: No

Will you get your land deeded to a group of your choice?

Dreamland:Yes
Hiro/d'Alliez: Yes

It seems to me that there are very few differences. You have pointed out you offer a lower tier at 3072m2, thats great, but how does the rest of your tier structure extend? Other than that, it seems to me the only difference is that you charge them a purchase price to get nothing more than the ability to falsely claim 'I own this!', which roughly translated means 'I have to find someone else to buy this before I can move out!'

Bah, can't believe we are going down this road again!

Actually some people already act as "tier reseller" on mainland.

However, please keep in mind that people who sell or rent out land on island sims usually also provide added value beyond the pure tier arbitrage thing.

You can not compare yourself to LL. To do so is just crazy!

Good post Hiro.

And I am still waiting to hear whether Anshe will buy back the original poster's land.

Alexa