About welfare and the unemployment rate in SL?
|
Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
|
09-26-2005 13:20
From: Boyfriend Bailly I'm just repeating myself over and over. Perhaps you should stop. From: someone If somebody chooses to buy your content, they are not compnsating you. This is not what compensation means or is about. It is warping definition. Your dictionary is defective. It appears to be missing part of the entry for compensation. From: someone Are you not reading? No, I'm not reading. I'm illiterate; all my posts were dictated to my cat, who types 30 wpm and can also whip up a mean pot of chili. From: someone People do not "need" to pay you for anything no matter what the circumstance. My cat and I are in agreement that both she and I deserve compensation for choosing to leave off this discussion calmly and with a sense of humor despite condescension-laden insults like your are-you-reading jab. Ethically, you need to pay up. I'll be placing a donation box on my parcel, where you may deposit funds to be used to purchase the chocolate-covered cherries and catnip mousies to which we are entitled.
_____________________
http://www.TheMagicians.us 
|
Moss Talamasca
Serpent & Thistle
Join date: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 367
|
Unemployment? Welfare?
09-26-2005 14:06
You've got to be kidding.
That's great that you enjoy the 'economic strategies' of SL, but the for a lot of us economics doesn't even enter into it. I'm here for the role-playing and 3d modeling, building, and scripting. I can be whatever or whomever i want. I can freakin' fly!! I get all the economic playing i need from my job. I come here to let loose.
The greatest thing about SL is that it's totally open-ended. You like role-playing Captain Consumer, but i don't. So don't force your experience onto me. My subscription guarantees me a stipend. If i choose to have a shop to sell the things i make for a little extra linden, that's just icing on the cake, but the idea of having to pay for the honor of cleaning up someone else's sandbox is completely offensive to me.
I wouldn't take such a job in RL, why on earth would i choose to do so here?
|
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
|
09-26-2005 15:28
From: Moss Talamasca I wouldn't take such a job in RL, why on earth would i choose to do so here? If it's not applicable, why be offended? 
|
Moss Talamasca
Serpent & Thistle
Join date: 20 Aug 2005
Posts: 367
|
09-26-2005 16:29
i suppose i was thinking you were proposing to make it applicable.
|
Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
|
09-26-2005 17:11
From: Moss Talamasca You've got to be kidding. That's great that you enjoy the 'economic strategies' of SL, but the for a lot of us economics doesn't even enter into it. I'm here for the role-playing and 3d modeling, building, and scripting. I can be whatever or whomever i want. I can freakin' fly!! I get all the economic playing i need from my job. I come here to let loose. The greatest thing about SL is that it's totally open-ended. You like role-playing Captain Consumer, but i don't. So don't force your experience onto me. My subscription guarantees me a stipend. If i choose to have a shop to sell the things i make for a little extra linden, that's just icing on the cake, but the idea of having to pay for the honor of cleaning up someone else's sandbox is completely offensive to me. I wouldn't take such a job in RL, why on earth would i choose to do so here? I agree with you that economics have nothing to do with many uses of Second Life, but I am not sure where you have seen a guarantee for a stipend. I have never seen a guarantee for a stipend or any other $L distributed by Linden Labs. One interesting thing about the terms of service ( http://secondlife.com/corporate/tos.php) is that no where in these terms are you told that you will be supplied with $L in a stipend for any type of account including Premium. Even if stipends was a part of their agreement with you, they reserve the rights to make ammendments to their agreement with you at any time immediately after posting the changes on their websites. They have the right to make these changes, because you checked a box saying that you agreed to all these terms when you signed up. If you have found a guarantee I have not seen, please post it.
|
Pleasure Semple
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 84
|
09-27-2005 12:32
From: Memir Quinn He's still trolling? And people are still replying? Wow. ^.^ Dont feed the trolls people. The only troll is the person that comes into a thread with no intention of participating. The trolls only intention is to abuse with ausive remarks. Which is exactly what you are doing. The only troll here is you.
|
Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
|
09-27-2005 12:55
From: Daz Honey Maybe to you bro, but I know for a fact that there are people who work very hard, far harder than if it was just a game for pats on the back, to make a little cash.
Maybe people would just make things that they liked rather than catering to the masses if it was a closed system but real life money really is an incentive to build and advertise, that's a fact. 1. Nobody here is "working hard". There is no physical labor involved in this. 2. Everybody here has the choice to either create for themselves, create for profit, create for SL, or whatever. 3. No matter we intend for our creation, we are not entitled to anything. We have the ability to sell our creations. That is all good, and fine. You would be deluding yourself to think you are entitled to anything more than the right to play/use SL. From: Kim Anubis My cat and I are in agreement that both she and I deserve compensation for choosing to leave off this discussion calmly and with a sense of humor despite condescension-laden insults like your are-you-reading jab. Ethically, you need to pay up. I'll be placing a donation box on my parcel, where you may deposit funds to be used to purchase the chocolate-covered cherries and catnip mousies to which we are entitled. As stated, you are not "entitled" to anything. All of your rude tantrum remarks change nothing. Should I expect somebody that throws rude abusive remarks such as yourself to have any reasonable outlook about entitlement, and what it really means?
|
Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
|
09-27-2005 13:03
From: Boyfriend Bailly 1. Nobody here is "working hard". There is no physical labor involved in this. 2. Everybody here has the choice to either create for themselves, create for profit, create for SL, or whatever. 3. No matter we intend for our creation, we are not entitled to anything. We have the ability to sell our creations. That is all good, and fine. You would be deluding yourself to think you are entitled to anything more than the right to play/use SL. working hard means using your muscles? I suppose Stephen Hawking hasn't done a damn thing his whole life then... I never said anyone was entitled to anything just that there is real work involved and the incentive of real money helps that work.
_____________________
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
|
Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
|
09-27-2005 13:46
_____________________
http://www.TheMagicians.us 
|
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
|
09-27-2005 14:19
From: Boyfriend Bailly 1. Nobody here is "working hard". There is no physical labor involved in this. Hardwork is not limited to physical labor. Think outside the box.
|
JackBurton Faulkland
PorkChop Express
Join date: 3 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
|
09-27-2005 14:36
Well i have done both hard work with my mind and with my body and I have to honestly say I prefer to work with my mind. Working with my mind is mentally exhausting sometimes but physical labor contains both. So i believe physical labor is tougher.
|
Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
|
09-27-2005 14:45
Noooo! Don't you start supplying food too!
|
Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
|
09-27-2005 15:23
From: Cheyenne Marquez Hardwork is not limited to physical labor.
Think outside the box. George Carlin put it best. Hard work has nothing to do with physical labor and everything with getting paid to do something you would prefer to not be doing.
_____________________
Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
|
Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
|
09-27-2005 17:23
From: Memir Quinn He's still trolling? And people are still replying? Wow. ^.^ Dont feed the trolls people. The only troll is the person that comes into a thread with no intention of participating. The trolls only intention is to abuse with abusive remarks. Which is exactly what you are doing. The only troll here is you. Get lost. When people want to disagree with you, but know they are wrong, they tend to call you troll. This happens a lot. They are the real trolls because they cannot have proper discussion without resorting to outwardly abusive behavior. From: JackBurton Faulkland Well i have done both hard work with my mind and with my body and I have to honestly say I prefer to work with my mind. Working with my mind is mentally exhausting sometimes but physical labor contains both. So i believe physical labor is tougher. Right. Work in certain senses is sitting down at a desk and working on whatever. But those that do the real work are those that plow the fields in the sun, do dangerous construction, and handle putrid garbage for sanitation. Claiming that anything we do in SL is work is a total joke. People cannot see things beyond their own warped world. From: Daz Honey working hard means using your muscles? I suppose Stephen Hawking hasn't done a damn thing his whole life then...
I never said anyone was entitled to anything just that there is real work involved and the incentive of real money helps that work. I am talking about what a few people are saying. First of all, it is not hard work. Second of all, people are saying that people should be entitled to a fair price or whatever for their content. As if anybody deserves anything. Nobody needs incentive other than what program LL has. It is not fair to the community to impose any of the slightest obligations on them. Not a single person in SL is obligated to do anything, but pay their fees if they have any. Otherwise, they have no obligations. Claiming that all these content creators are doing work, and deserve compensation for the work they do is completely uncalled for. This is the theory of some: 1. Content creators work hard work to contribute useful content to SL. 2. SL has the obligation to provide fair compensation to content creators. Is that not what you are saying? If not, what is your point? Because that right there is what my entire argument is against. Content creators are not obligated to create content. Therefore, nobody should be obligated to provide any compensation for what they create. Whatever content creator’s do is their decision. Even if people are requesting content. They either do it or don’t do it. But never are they obligated to do it. And never would it be fair to obligate anybody to compensate content creators for their whatever efforts or “hard work” they put in. If I create something that SL desires and uses, I would not expect anybody to compensate me for anything. I would never say I deserve anything in return for it. If I can sell it all good and fine. If I cannot sell it, fine too. This does not mean that because of my efforts or because of its usefulness to SL that I inherently deserve something in return for the “hard work” I put into it. It is not realistic to look at content creators as if they were making some sort of outward contribution to SL. Creating content is part of playing SL. End-user content creators do not need incentive. All content is made by the end-users for the end-users. Of course there are exceptions, but those exceptions are those that have some agreement worked out with Linden Labs. Other than that, end-users creating content is not some sort of job. End-users creating content is nothing but end-users using the platform that they paid for. It is up to them to do so, and they do not need any compensation or incentive to do so. In fact, many of them pay to do so. If they feel doing so is not worthwhile to them, that is fine. Nobody is under any obligation to do anything that they feel is worthwhile for them. But to sit there, and expect some sort of return for using the platform is not realistic. From: Cheyenne Marquez Hardwork is not limited to physical labor.
Think outside the box. Think outside the box? Are you serious? Since when do we ad-hom people about how to think? State your proposition, and support it with real points. What exactly is your issue with what I have presented?
|
Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
|
09-27-2005 18:29
From: Eboni Khan If I buy a movie, I know exactly what I am getting. If I buy SL, what am I getting again? Who cares that Second Life isn't a scripted movie. The point is that the makers of the movie in real life are not getting paid in money being devalued by the money printer. Would you be happy if the US government gave someone newly printed $US in exchange for English Pounds that they sell to Britain, and then have that same person who sold the English Pounds come and get what you made in real life with the now less valuable $US? You still get paid for what you made in real life, but the US$ becomes something you hate trading in, because it is being sold by the money printer. You then start wanting to only accept English Pounds instead of US$. If the English don't hurt their economy and the American do, why stay with the dollar. (Note this is all hypothetical, I'm not stating this is how things actually work.) If this type of policy existed on a large scale, then the $US would constantly go down in value. The people build stilll get paid, but the economy is trashed when the government printing the money sells the currency they print.
|
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
|
09-27-2005 19:34
From: Boyfriend Bailly Think outside the box? Are you serious? Since when do we ad-hom people about how to think? State your proposition, and support it with real points. What exactly is your issue with what I have presented? I said it all right here a few posts back... From: Cheyenne Marquez You just described the market place Boyfriend.
The same principle applies to real life merchants. Simply substitute the SL platform for any given community and real life brick and mortal rental property. I really don't think youre telling us anything we don't already know here. I don't know what else you want me to say? Everyone is aware that content creators don't "deserve" anything. You have been told this time and time again on this thread. Yet, you continue to say the same thing over and over again. Theyre motivation to create is not different than any other entrepreneurs motivation to establish a business. To make money! Entrepreneurs (any business) puts their wares out in the public with the intent to sell said wares. The market then dictates whether these "entrepreneurs" succeed or not. They don't "deserve" anything no more than content creators in SL deserve anything. Likewise, the SL consumer will dictate whether these creators succeed or not by virtue of whether they find their product compelling or not. Once again, we understand no one "deserves" anything. No one can be forced to buy anything if they don't want it, can they? Please stop repeating the same thing over and over again.
|
Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
|
09-27-2005 22:09
But, Hiro, he makes me laugh!
_____________________
http://www.TheMagicians.us 
|
Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
|
09-27-2005 23:23
From: Cheyenne Marquez Theyre motivation to create is not different than any other entrepreneurs motivation to establish a business.
To make money! First. There are various motivations for content creators to create content. Some do it because it is fun without any intent of participating in any buying or selling. You can sit on your land all day, and create for no other reason that to create for yourself. Second. Many people are saying that content creators deserve something in return. I pointed this out in my previous post. People believe that content creators deserve "fair" pay for their content. I have even quoted people on this.
|
Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
|
09-27-2005 23:31
wow i stated my point as clearly as i could and that boyfriend dude still can't interpret what i am trying to say ok end of convo with him.
Kim! I loves ya!! and if I didn't know ya I'd admire you for your words!
_____________________
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
|
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
|
09-28-2005 00:11
From: Daz Honey wow i stated my point as clearly as i could and that boyfriend dude still can't interpret what i am trying to say ok end of convo with him. My sentiments exactly 
|
Pleasure Semple
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 84
|
09-28-2005 10:49
From: Daz Honey wow i stated my point as clearly as i could and that boyfriend dude still can't interpret what i am trying to say ok end of convo with him. How do you figure. I interpreted what you stated that work does not necessarily involve physically exerting labor? Is that a wrong interpretation? If so, what exactly are you saying? You mentioned incentive as if you had any point. No end-user "needs" incentive to do anything. Nobody "needs" to give any end-user incentive to do anything. They pay for the game, and they play it. If the choose to create content, and make it available, that is fine. If they do not, it is fine. Content will always be created and available regardless. No incentive need be involved. No entitlement need be involved. Nobody is obligated to do any "hard work" in SL. We need not give anybody incentive for anything. They pay their fee, and use the platoform for whatever. If they do not want to use it to create, it is no big deal. There are dozens upon dozens of others that do. State a single point, and expand on it so it is clear. I never directed what I said to you. You did not even read, and therefore, believe that I was saying "this is the theory of Daz". I even included a clause so you would not rant about how I misinterpreted you: "this is the theory of some". If you do not understand what that means, I am saying that it is not necessarily what your theory is. I am responding to the validity of some of the theories presented. Yet you take it personally as if I specifically stated that these were your theories. If you believe that nobody needs incentive for anything, what I am saying does not apply to you. If you believe that nobody is automatically entiteled to comensation no matter what they do in SL, what I am saying does not apply to you. If you belive no single end-user of SL should be credited for working, what I am saying does not apply to you. Stop trying to make it seem as if you are the only person here.
|
Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
|
09-28-2005 11:02
How do you figure. I interpreted what you stated that work does not necessarily involve physically exerting labor? Is that a wrong interpretation? If so, what exactly are you saying?
You mentioned incentive as if you had any point. No end-user "needs" incentive to do anything. Nobody "needs" to give any end-user incentive to do anything. They pay for the game, and they play it. If the choose to create content, and make it available, that is fine. If they do not, it is fine. Content will always be created and available regardless. No incentive need be involved. No entitlement need be involved. Nobody is obligated to do any "hard work" in SL. We need not give anybody incentive for anything. They pay their fee, and use the platoform for whatever. If they do not want to use it to create, it is no big deal. There are dozens upon dozens of others that do.
State a single point, and expand on it so it is clear.
I never directed what I said to you. You did not even read, and therefore, believe that I was saying "this is the theory of Daz". I even included a clause so you would not rant about how I misinterpreted you: "this is the theory of some". If you do not understand what that means, I am saying that it is not necessarily what your theory is. I am responding to the validity of some of the theories presented. Yet you take it personally as if I specifically stated that these were your theories.
If you believe that nobody needs incentive for anything, what I am saying does not apply to you. If you believe that nobody is automatically entiteled to comensation no matter what they do in SL, what I am saying does not apply to you. If you belive no single end-user of SL should be credited for working, what I am saying does not apply to you.
Stop trying to make it seem as if you are the only person here.
|
Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
|
this is the theory of Daz
09-28-2005 23:01
I like to draw I like to write I like to fuck all night alright I think about girls with their tounge in my * this is the theory of Daz
_____________________
All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
|
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
|
09-28-2005 23:27
Am I the only one whose brain gets twisted in knots when reading anything Boyfriend posts? Bravo, riddle master!
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
|
Vestalia Hadlee
Second Life Resident
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 296
|
09-28-2005 23:42
From: Enabran Templar Am I the only one whose brain gets twisted in knots when reading anything Boyfriend posts? Bravo, riddle master! As an admirer of your brain, I'm delighted to claim that no, you are not alone in this.
_____________________
"Antipathy...against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. ."-- George Washington, Farewell Address 1793
|