About welfare and the unemployment rate in SL?
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-25-2005 18:24
From: Kim Anubis There is no call for you to denigrate content creators or their creations. That's just rude. I feel my work is valuable, and that the compensation I request for it is fair. People who buy my work agree. If you disagree, it's simple: Don't buy it. Better yet: Organize picketers to march in front of my shop to protest my prices -- be sure to tip off the major SL media outlets first! What makes you think anybody is denigrating content creators? Who said anything about pretesting against prices. I simply said that the prices people pay for content is what you get for it. It does not mean your content is worth anything. It does not mean it is worth nothing. Your content is simply content that you create so you can play with in SL or so that others can play with. If people want to by it, that is fine. Nobody said anything is wrong with tha. Why would you want to twist what I say? It is as simple as this: No single end-user is worht more to Second Life than another. I do not see where I ever claimed that content creators get too much. I would love for you to show me where I even implied that. Content creators get whatever they can according for the price they sell their content for. Therefore they are more valueable to certain others? They are worth more to Second Life than others? Of course not. You cannot go up to somebody without getting hired, start doing stuff that you enjoy, claim you are doing all this hard valuable work, and think you desreve anything. That is not the case. Every content creator creates for fun. Otherwise, they create for what they think they can get for their content. Otherwise, they create something that they think would benefit others. Either way, it is your choice, and your doing. No matter what you choose, nobody owes you anything. You are not worth more than anybody else. End-users are end-users no matter how the "use" SL. Even if the use it to create content for others. They are simply "using" this program to create something. Prehaps to sell it or for whatever intention they have. Whatever the intention is of the end-user/content creator, they are using SL, and paying for it. (Unless they are basic). Nobody is going to treat you any different, and we do not deserve to be treated any different. This is called entitlement. The psychology that I did all this work, and therefore, deserve something in return. This is not work, it is not a job nobody is telling us to do this. It's our option. In fact it is what we pay to do just like we pay to play a video game. We play SL which includes letting us make content.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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09-25-2005 18:25
what
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From: Hiro Pendragon Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court. Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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09-25-2005 18:43
From: Boyfriend Bailly What makes you think anybody is denigrating content creators? Who said anything about pretesting against prices. I simply said that the prices people pay for content is what you get for it. It does not mean your content is worth anything. It does not mean it is worth nothing. Your content is simply content that you create so you can play with in SL or so that others can play with. If people want to by it, that is fine. Nobody said anything is wrong with tha. Why would you want to twist what I say?
It is as simple as this: No single end-user is worht more to Second Life than another.
I do not see where I ever claimed that content creators get too much. I would love for you to show me where I even implied that.
Content creators get whatever they can according for the price they sell their content for. Therefore they are more valueable to certain others? They are worth more to Second Life than others? Of course not.
You cannot go up to somebody without getting hired, start doing stuff that you enjoy, claim you are doing all this hard valuable work, and think you desreve anything. That is not the case. Every content creator creates for fun. Otherwise, they create for what they think they can get for their content. Otherwise, they create something that they think would benefit others. Either way, it is your choice, and your doing. No matter what you choose, nobody owes you anything. You are not worth more than anybody else. End-users are end-users no matter how the "use" SL. Even if the use it to create content for others. They are simply "using" this program to create something. Prehaps to sell it or for whatever intention they have. Whatever the intention is of the end-user/content creator, they are using SL, and paying for it. (Unless they are basic).
Nobody is going to treat you any different, and we do not deserve to be treated any different. This is called entitlement. The psychology that I did all this work, and therefore, deserve something in return. This is not work, it is not a job nobody is telling us to do this. It's our option. In fact it is what we pay to do just like we pay to play a video game. We play SL which includes letting us make content. Dude, you need to take a chill pill. If you don't value the content enough to buy it, then don't buy it. Simple.
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Damanios Thetan
looking in
Join date: 6 Mar 2004
Posts: 992
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09-25-2005 18:51
From: Michael Seraph We pay to be residents in Second Life. Part of that payment is returned in game as stipends. The idea that the monthly fees of the premium account are paying for the stipends is a common misconception. As LL is just creating these L$ out of thin air, they are actually paid for by the whole SL community. What you pay your monthly fee for, is actually the 'money sinks' that LL (should) provide. Especially the upload fees. This is where LL is actually offering 'resources' for free, as they basically 'burn' the L$ they 'earn' from providing this service
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Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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09-25-2005 18:56
No one said anyone is worth more than anyone else. What I said is that my work has value. I'm talking about prices. About compensation for my work. That's it. So if you have any issue with the stuff I've posted, the only thing that you can possibly be upset about is my prices . . . which you are not required to pay, so you have no reason to argue with me. No need to get all wound up. From: Boyfriend Bailly This is not work, it is not a job nobody is telling us to do this. You do know there are exceptions to that, right?
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-25-2005 20:13
From: Hiro Queso Dude, you need to take a chill pill. If you don't value the content enough to buy it, then don't buy it. Simple. What does that have to do with anything I'm saying? That is fine. Nobody is saying anything different. Where did I ever say I value or don't value it. Content is just content, and it is valued by the market. What more would you want? From: Memir Quinn Yes, yes, a sockpoppet turns up at just the right moment spewing contradictory nonsense without even enough merit to laugh at harshly, feels better about itself for the attention its garnered and life goes on.
An plonk, goes the sound of a troll being ignored.
Have a lovely Secondlife. ^.^ You are rude. You misquoted what I said, and started calling names. It is impolite, but I'm sure it makes you feel better. Too bad it changes nothing.
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Vestalia Hadlee
Second Life Resident
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 296
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09-25-2005 20:43
I see several statements which leave conceivable latitude for wild interpretation, therefore these questions: From: Boyfriend Bailly I simply said that the prices people pay for content is what you get for it. It does not mean your content is worth anything. It does not mean it is worth nothing. Does this mean that one pays for products without regard to whether or not the product is worth anything? From: Boyfriend Bailly It is as simple as this: No single end-user is worht more to Second Life than another.
Content creators get whatever they can according for the price they sell their content for. Therefore they are more valueable to certain others? They are worth more to Second Life than others? Of course not.. Please provide a link or direct quotes where the claim was made that any "single end-user is worth more to Second Life than another" and that "content creators...are worth more to Second Life than others." From: Boyfriend Bailly You cannot go up to somebody without getting hired, start doing stuff that you enjoy, claim you are doing all this hard valuable work, and think you desreve anything... Does this mean that if a person is doing something which is enjoyed, it can be neither hard nor valuable work? Does it also mean that if you enjoy what you're doing, you "don't deserve anything" if another benefits from that activity? Does "anything" in this regard include being paid in exchange for a product or service? If it does, then please reconcile how such payment is not encompassed in the term "anything." From: Boyfriend Bailly That is not the case. Every content creator creates for fun. Otherwise, they create for what they think they can get for their content. Otherwise, they create something that they think would benefit others. Either way, it is your choice, and your doing. No matter what you choose, nobody owes you anything. To summarize: Content creators create for fun, for what they think they can get for their content, or in attempt to benefit others. Yet, no matter which, nobody owes the content creator anything. Given that a content creator creates "for what they think they can get for their content", and given that nobody owes anything to someone who creates under that motivation: does "anything" here include not being paid in exchange for their content? If it is included, please reconcile how such payment cannot be included under the term "anything." From: Boyfriend Bailly You are not worth more than anybody else. Please provide a link or direct quote that this assertion has been made. From: Boyfriend Bailly End-users are end-users no matter how the "use" SL. Even if the use it to create content for others. They are simply "using" this program to create something. Prehaps to sell it or for whatever intention they have. Whatever the intention is of the end-user/content creator, they are using SL, and paying for it. (Unless they are basic). To summarize: Regardless of how an end-user uses SL, he or she is an end-user who uses SL. I find truth in this tautology. From: Boyfriend Bailly Nobody is going to treat you any different, and we do not deserve to be treated any different. This is called entitlement. Please provide a link or direct quote that such an assertion has been made. From: Boyfriend Bailly The psychology that I did all this work, and therefore, deserve something in return. This is not work, it is not a job nobody is telling us to do this.It's our option. Does "something" include being paid in exchange for content which one person creates and transfers to another? To qualify as "work", does an activity necessarily require someone telling one to do that activity? Do optional activities not qualify as "work?"
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"Antipathy...against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. ."-- George Washington, Farewell Address 1793
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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
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09-25-2005 20:56
From: Boyfriend Bailly Nobody is going to treat you any different, and we do not deserve to be treated any different. This is called entitlement. The psychology that I did all this work, and therefore, deserve something in return. This is not work, it is not a job nobody is telling us to do this. It's our option. In fact it is what we pay to do just like we pay to play a video game. We play SL which includes letting us make content.
You'll excuse me while I fight the urge to say some very unkind things, and confine myself to a simple reposting.
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Red Mary says, softly, “How a man grows aggressive when his enemy displays propriety. He thinks: I will use this good behavior to enforce my advantage over her. Is it any wonder people hold good behavior in such disregard?” Anything Surplus Home to the "Nuke the Crap Out of..." series of games and other stuff
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-25-2005 21:04
From: Kim Anubis No one said anyone is worth more than anyone else. What I said is that my work has value. I'm talking about prices. About compensation for my work. That's it. So if you have any issue with the stuff I've posted, the only thing that you can possibly be upset about is my prices . . . which you are not required to pay, so you have no reason to argue with me. No need to get all wound up.
You do know there are exceptions to that, right? There are exceptions to anything. If LL hires you to do something fine. As for you talking about compesation for you work, this is what I am saying. It is like somebody spray cleaning your car windows on the street, and expecting compensation. You are paying (or not) to use SL. There is no comensation invovled. You pay the fee. You use the game. Nobody 'desreves' anything. If you make content or whatever, it is fine. Set it at any price, and allow people to buy it and not. The point is that I seem to have to restate because people are completely overlooking it is that I cannot come, and do a job. Then expect people to compensate me for it. Nobody owes anybody anything for the work anybody does. If you make an item it is your 'option' to sell it. Not because you "desreve some sort of comensation for your work". But because that is something that somebod might want to buy. Compensate means that you did something, and you deserve something in return for it. That is not the case. Everybody does stuff, but that doesn't mean anybody 'deserves' any sort of compensation. You selling your nothing more than what you want to do because somebody might want to buy it. There is no entitlement in this situation. Nobody is entitled to anything. We are not entiteled to get compensated for our effort in making stuff. We are entitled to use sell stuff and/or use whatever other features of SL as members of SL just like any other member of SL. This does not mean that I am saying what people do is not valuable or wothless to anybody. I am saying that you cannot just walk into somewhere, do all this labor, and tell them to sompensate you. You are not entitled to anything other than what you are entitled to as an end-user of SL.
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Vestalia Hadlee
Second Life Resident
Join date: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 296
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09-25-2005 21:23
From: Boyfriend Bailly Compensate means that you did something, and you deserve something in return for it. More precisely, compensation means you did something, another requests and receives the benefit of it, and you therefore deserve something in return for it. From: Boyfriend Bailly That is not the case. Everybody does stuff, but that doesn't mean anybody 'deserves' any sort of compensation. Agreed. One deserves compensation only when another receives the benefit of the activity. If nobody wants the fruits of another's efforts, then certainly, there should be no compensation. From: Boyfriend Bailly You selling your nothing more than what you want to do because somebody might want to buy it. There is no entitlement in this situation. Nobody is entitled to anything. We are not entiteled to get compensated for our effort in making stuff. I've never seen anyone advocate receiving compensation for simply creating any old piece of nothingness. The only advocacy I've read thus far is for compensation from the exchange of goods or services which others desire, ask for, and receive. From: Boyfriend Bailly We are entitled to use sell stuff and/or use whatever other features of SL as members of SL just like any other member of SL. Obviously. From: Boyfriend Bailly This does not mean that I am saying what people do is not valuable or wothless to anybody. I am saying that you cannot just walk into somewhere, do all this labor, and tell them to sompensate you. You are not entitled to anything other than what you are entitled to as an end-user of SL. Please quote directly or provide a link where anyone is advocating simply walking into somewhere, doing labor, and being asked for compensation. That, as distinct from walking into somewhere, doing labor from which others desire and receive the benefit, and thus feel entitled to compensation. Does your last sentence include being compensated for creating goods which another desires and receives? If it does not, please reconcile how payment in exchange for such goods does not qualify as "entitled to anything."
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"Antipathy...against another disposes each more readily to offer insult and injury, to lay hold of slight causes of umbrage, and to be haughty and intractable when accidental or trifling occasions of dispute occur. ."-- George Washington, Farewell Address 1793
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Tovera Naumova
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 9
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09-25-2005 21:30
From: Boyfriend Bailly The point is that I seem to have to restate because people are completely overlooking it is that I cannot come, and do a job. Then expect people to compensate me for it. Nobody owes anybody anything for the work anybody does. If you make an item it is your 'option' to sell it. Not because you "desreve some sort of comensation for your work". But because that is something that somebod might want to buy. And the point that you seem to be missing with what appears to be a massive amount of effort on your part to ignore it from alllll the posts trying to inform you of your missing said point is that ....NO ONE EVER MADE THAT CLAIM. The rest though out of all the post so far yours have by and _far_ been the most insulting. From: Boyfriend Bailly If you are not doing any hard labor such as breaking your back in the sun, breathing in construction yard dust, shoveling the most disgusting infested garbage, it is no labor. Nobody needs to be looked at as if they are doing some sort of high value labor, and should be compensated. That is a truly ignorant and insulting thing to say.
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-25-2005 23:40
From: Vestalia Hadlee I see several statements which leave conceivable latitude for wild interpretation, therefore these questions: Quote: Originally Posted by Boyfriend Bailly I simply said that the prices people pay for content is what you get for it. It does not mean your content is worth anything. It does not mean it is worth nothing. Does this mean that one pays for products without regard to whether or not the product is worth anything?
The value of whatever content that is being paid for is whatever the price is, and whatever the person paid for it. Other than that, it wouldn’t matter how much time was put into creating it. The value of the product is based on it’s demand by the SL community. The value is completely independent of how much time its creator put into it. From: Vestalia Hadlee Quote: Originally Posted by Boyfriend Bailly It is as simple as this: No single end-user is worht more to Second Life than another.
Content creators get whatever they can according for the price they sell their content for. Therefore they are more valueable to certain others? They are worth more to Second Life than others? Of course not..
Please provide a link or direct quotes where the claim was made that any "single end-user is worth more to Second Life than another" and that "content creators...are worth more to Second Life than others." There have been people claiming that content creators deserve compensation for their efforts. This is what I mean by that. Nobody deserves compensation as such. Nobody “deserves” anything more than what all users get. Whatever resources you put into your content is not a factor in its value. Everybody creates content for one reason only. Because creating/distributing/playing with content is part of using SL. Your intent for creating content might be to make profit, express your creativity, or help the community. Whatever it is, it is all part of using SL. Not some kind of labor that deserves compensation because of all the great things you provide to the community. From: Vestalia Hadlee Quote: Originally Posted by Boyfriend Bailly You cannot go up to somebody without getting hired, start doing stuff that you enjoy, claim you are doing all this hard valuable work, and think you desreve anything...
Does this mean that if a person is doing something which is enjoyed, it can be neither hard nor valuable work?
Does it also mean that if you enjoy what you're doing, you "don't deserve anything" if another benefits from that activity?
Does "anything" in this regard include being paid in exchange for a product or service? If it does, then please reconcile how such payment is not encompassed in the term "anything." There are of course different types of work with different aspects of desirability and qualities. This is a different topic. Regarding the point, nobody is asking anybody to do anything. If somebody asks you to do a job, you can charge them for the job. Therefore, you would be entitled to payment for your services according to whatever the terms of the agreement are. You “deserve” your proper “compensation” for what you rendered according to the terms. If you go somewhere, do a job for somebody with no terms, you cannot expect to be compensation. You cannot be entitled to any compensation for what you do. It is even more so different in the case of SL. You are paying to use this interface. It does not matter what your intent is or what you do for the community. There is no entitlement/no “deserving” involved. You do not deserve anything or you can say you do not deserve nothing either. That is because entitlement doesn’t exist. The only thing we are entitled to is the use of SL. From: Vestalia Hadlee Quote: Originally Posted by Boyfriend Bailly That is not the case. Every content creator creates for fun. Otherwise, they create for what they think they can get for their content. Otherwise, they create something that they think would benefit others. Either way, it is your choice, and your doing. No matter what you choose, nobody owes you anything.
To summarize: Content creators create for fun, for what they think they can get for their content, or in attempt to benefit others. Yet, no matter which, nobody owes the content creator anything.
Given that a content creator creates "for what they think they can get for their content", and given that nobody owes anything to someone who creates under that motivation: does "anything" here include not being paid in exchange for their content? If it is included, please reconcile how such payment cannot be included under the term "anything." What are you talking about? Nobody owes anything because there is no entitlement involved. If suddenly decide to create a sculpture at home, nobody owes you anything. It does not matter how much time and effort you put into it. It is your choice. If you think you can sell it for whatever price, throw it in the trash, or do whatever you want with it. It is your choice. You created your sculpture for whatever intent (profit, fun, or to be helpful). No matter what your intent was, you are not “entitled” to compensation. Nobody owes you anything. It is your choice. I have no idea what more you are attempting to do with it. The facts are simple. What do u not understand? From: Vestalia Hadlee Does "something" include being paid in exchange for content which one person creates and transfers to another?
To qualify as "work", does an activity necessarily require someone telling one to do that activity? Do optional activities not qualify as "work?" This is irrelevant. It has no basis in anything we are discussing. Everybody has the ability to buy and sell whatever they want. The only entitlement involved is the end-user’s entitlement to use SL, and proper treatment by LL. It does not matter how you use SL or what you do in SL. Nobody “has to” or “should necessarily” compensate you. If they want to pay whatever price you set for your content, that is fine. But nobody is compensating your for your “hard time” Nobody is compensating you for anything. Need I repeat myself over and over? From: Vestalia Hadlee Originally Posted by Boyfriend Bailly Compensate means that you did something, and you deserve something in return for it.
More precisely, compensation means you did something, another requests and receives the benefit of it, and you therefore deserve something in return for it./
Not in the slightest. Why would you warp definitions? You did something. Somebody else requests, and receives benefit from it. Therefore, period. There is no “therefore” because that is the end of it. You would not be following proper logic to think so. There is no deserving involved. There is no entitlement involved. There is no compensation involved in this. This has nothing to do with entitlement. The reason I defined it specifically was so nobody would get confused about what it meant. Therefore, why twist the definition? Compensation is only involved when you deserve something in return. Somebody might pay you a billion dollars for your content. Somebody might pay you one dollar for it. It does not mean “deserving” anything has to be involved. Nobody is compensating you for anything. Stop trying to revert the definition. From: Vestalia Hadlee Agreed. One deserves compensation only when another receives the benefit of the activity. If nobody wants the fruits of another's efforts, then certainly, there should be no compensation. Either way, it does not mean anybody “deserves” any sort of compensation. You are asserting that a product is being used my everybody. Therefore, the creator should get something out of it. Realistically entitlement plays no role. There is no deserving there is no not deserving. It simply isn’t in the equation. The creator could have gotten a billion Ls or 1L. This is not compensation. This is not entitlement. It is simply what the person received as revenue for a product he created. Not because he is somehow “entitled” to this revenue. It has nothing to do with compensating/entitlement or anything alike. But this desire for goods is a specific situation. The situation we are referring to is all content creation in SL. If people are using content, it is fine. If not, it is fine too. Such generalization that the content creators deserve compensation for content that is desired and used by the community. 1. There is no entitlement involved. 2. To say “the community desires and uses these products” is a generalization that is not fair to the community. I cannot walk into your house, build you a sculpture, and tell you that you desire and use my sculpture. Therefore, I am entitled to compensation. This is the point I’m getting at. People treat SL as if they are using this desirable content like it is something major. People create content. People play with everybody’s created content. This is exactly how SL functions. We pay for the ability to create products, and we pay to be part of a community where our products can be tested and/or used by the players. There is no desire/compensation involved. We pay for X, and we use X as it is. Specifically, there are of course people that want this item and that item. Generally however, SL is a platform where people create content, buy/sell/transfer content, and play with content. No compensating involved. No projecting desires involved.
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Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
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09-25-2005 23:50
I didn't read all of it, so if it was said previously I appologise.
Allowing RL money to come into SL has encouraged people to build, if we only shuffled our stipends around or if everything was dirt-dirt cheap it wouldn't be as much fun.
I know several builders that work hard at making a little cash on the side, and if you are good all those little sums can add up and that inspires us who live in a capitalist society.
I think a modest stipend with potential dwell and other bonuses is a great system!
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All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
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Kim Anubis
The Magician
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 921
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09-26-2005 01:20
Boyfriend, you misunderstood my point and so went off on a tangent, attacking a view I never stated -- one that nobody has stated here.
I have not said that I should be paid, adulated, cosseted, or given a free FIC shirt and a chocolate chip cookie just 'cause I am a content creator. I said I deserve to be paid fairly by people who make the choice to buy things I have created. And I said that LL has announced an adjustment that will better facilitate this sort of agreement and exchange.
I could digress (is an item's value really the value of the time it took to make the item, or the time it took the creator to learn the skills it took to make the item?) and digress some more (some content creators have been asked to do work in SL, and some are even compensated on an hourly basis) and more (the use of quotation marks around phrases no one participating in this thread has actually posted parallels attacks on views no one here had presented or attempted to defend). But I'm pretty sure, if you don't undertand my actual main point by now, that you're not likely to, and that discussion of subsidiary issues would be likewise fruitless.
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-26-2005 07:36
From: Kim AnubisI said I deserve to be paid fairly by people who make the choice to buy things I have created.[/QUOTE You are just repeating something I have already addressed. I already posted my points about it. Ethically, you have no right to impose compensation from anybody for whatever you create no matter how it is used. I've repeated over and over that there is no "deserving" involved. Entitlement does not play a factor, and you continue to overlook the point.
Nobody "desreves" anything more than anybgody else. Are you using the features of the SL platform that you paid for? You deserve to use the SL platform, and use its features to the best of your ability. Other than that, you are not entitled to anything else.
The only thing you deserve is to use SL in whatever way you can in the same way any other end-user does. I'm just repeating myself over and over. What exactly do you not understand about what I'm saying?
The only thing you deserve is to create whatever you want, and use SL for whatever purpose you chose. Not to impose that all content creators recieve anything more than the ability top use SL like every othe end-user. It does not matter how much effort you put into something. It does not matter how much people use it. It does not matter if you get paid or do not get paid whatever price you set for your content. Comepnsation plays no role. If somebody chooses to buy your content, they are not compnsating you. This is not what compensation means or is about. It is warping definition. A person paying for your content is nothing more than using the SL platform to transfer about Lindens and content as part of the SL features.
If you wish to sell your content, that is your"choice". Set whatever price you want. It does not mean you are "entitled" to and compensation. Again and again, you tend to over look these points as if I am talking about something else. Are you not reading?
People choose to buy things you created for whatver price you set. Nothing more. Stop trying to envolve entitlement. Entitlement means that you deserve something or your are entitled to some sort of compensation. It is not even a factor. You set the price, and sell it. Or you give it away. Or you keep it. You are not entitled to a "fair price". You are expecting something that you are not entitled to. What makes you think you deserve any "fair compenation"? The only thing you truly deserve is to use SL like everybody else. How you use it is yor choice. You pay to use it. People do not "need" to pay you for anything no matter what the circumstance.
It is people's choice to pay you however many Ls they think your content is worth to them. You have no ethical cause to impose any sort of supposed "entitled compensation" because there is no "entitlement" involved. Nobody is paying you "what you deserve". Because "what you deserve" plays no factor. The only thing you deserve is the SL platform, and proper services that come along with it. Create the greatest item that everybody use or not. The point remains the same. The only thing you and every end-user deserves is the use of SL platform, and proper services.
If a user can get some Ls for their content, that is fine and great. It does not mean the user deseves them or are entitled to a supposed fair amount of Ls. It does not mean that the user is being "compensated" for the content he created. This is not what compensation means or is about. You might create great content that everybody loves and uses. It does not mean that you necessary will or will not get something out of it. Either way, definitely means that entitlement plays no factor. Nobody is entitled to Ls. If they get it fine, and if not fine. Move on, and stop repeating the same thing.
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Boyfriend Bailly
Registered User
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 60
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09-26-2005 07:43
From: Daz Honey Allowing RL money to come into SL has encouraged people to build If it does fine. If it does not, fine. As long as the SL platform provides the tools and features that allow users to build and create, there will always be content. There will always be content in SL no matter what. There will always be better and greater content. The quality of the content in SL is totally dependent on the ability of the users to create. The betterthe tools and features od SL, the better the content. It has little to do with how much else the user can make from content. It has everything to do with the fact that users can sell theree content for Ls as part of the game/platform.
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Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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09-26-2005 07:46
From: Boyfriend Bailly Move on, and stop repeating the same thing. Irony.
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Memir Quinn
Registered User
Join date: 7 May 2005
Posts: 306
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09-26-2005 08:12
From: Schwanson Schlegel Irony. He's still trolling? And people are still replying? Wow. ^.^ Dont feed the trolls people.
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
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09-26-2005 08:17
From: Boyfriend Bailly You are just repeating something I have already addressed. I already posted my points about it. Ethically, you have no right to impose compensation from anybody for whatever you create no matter how it is used. I've repeated over and over that there is no "deserving" involved. Entitlement does not play a factor, and you continue to overlook the point.
Nobody "desreves" anything more than anybgody else. Are you using the features of the SL platform that you paid for? You deserve to use the SL platform, and use its features to the best of your ability. Other than that, you are not entitled to anything else.
The only thing you deserve is to use SL in whatever way you can in the same way any other end-user does. I'm just repeating myself over and over. What exactly do you not understand about what I'm saying?
The only thing you deserve is to create whatever you want, and use SL for whatever purpose you chose. Not to impose that all content creators recieve anything more than the ability top use SL like every othe end-user. It does not matter how much effort you put into something. It does not matter how much people use it. It does not matter if you get paid or do not get paid whatever price you set for your content. Comepnsation plays no role. If somebody chooses to buy your content, they are not compnsating you. This is not what compensation means or is about. It is warping definition. A person paying for your content is nothing more than using the SL platform to transfer about Lindens and content as part of the SL features.
If you wish to sell your content, that is your"choice". Set whatever price you want. It does not mean you are "entitled" to and compensation. Again and again, you tend to over look these points as if I am talking about something else. Are you not reading?
People choose to buy things you created for whatver price you set. Nothing more. Stop trying to envolve entitlement. Entitlement means that you deserve something or your are entitled to some sort of compensation. It is not even a factor. You set the price, and sell it. Or you give it away. Or you keep it. You are not entitled to a "fair price". You are expecting something that you are not entitled to. What makes you think you deserve any "fair compenation"? The only thing you truly deserve is to use SL like everybody else. How you use it is yor choice. You pay to use it. People do not "need" to pay you for anything no matter what the circumstance.
It is people's choice to pay you however many Ls they think your content is worth to them. You have no ethical cause to impose any sort of supposed "entitled compensation" because there is no "entitlement" involved. Nobody is paying you "what you deserve". Because "what you deserve" plays no factor. The only thing you deserve is the SL platform, and proper services that come along with it. Create the greatest item that everybody use or not. The point remains the same. The only thing you and every end-user deserves is the use of SL platform, and proper services.
If a user can get some Ls for their content, that is fine and great. It does not mean the user deseves them or are entitled to a supposed fair amount of Ls. It does not mean that the user is being "compensated" for the content he created. This is not what compensation means or is about. You might create great content that everybody loves and uses. It does not mean that you necessary will or will not get something out of it. Either way, definitely means that entitlement plays no factor. Nobody is entitled to Ls. If they get it fine, and if not fine. Move on, and stop repeating the same thing. You just described the market place Boyfriend. The same principle applies to real life merchants. Simply substitute the SL platform for any given community and real life brick and mortal rental property. I really don't think youre telling us anything we don't already know here.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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09-26-2005 10:33
From: Cheyenne Marquez I often wonder, why instead of "giving" away stipends, LL doesn't implement virtual employment as a viable means for people to "earn" money. For example, instead of automatic cleanup of governor owned sandboxes, why not employ people to clean up these sandboxes by paying them to manually clean them up. For instance, LL can pay them 1 - 5L$ for each prim they delete from sandboxes. Likewise, LL can take away the "auto cleanup" feature for resident owned land, thereby encouraging landowners to hire help to clean up their land. The same principle can be aplied to other duties that LL currently does automatically, and/or allows for residents to handle automatically. I think this would have many benefits. Among them, the creation of a service industry, a sense of belonging, elimination of welfare (stipends), development of work ethic, and a clear delineation between those that are serious about "earning" L$, and the so-called "slacker." P.S. - I know its a game and people don't want to come home from school or a job and go to work again in SL. But, SL is largely a game of economic strategy. Atleat thats what I find fun and attractive about it. A group of people from all parts of the world coming together online and simulating a real life economy, and working together to make it successful  Some people come here to enjoy themselves. Please, No conservative Work Ethic here.
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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09-26-2005 10:34
From: Fractal Mandala Not just no, but heck no. A big AMEN
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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09-26-2005 10:57
From: Greylan Huszar First of all -- WHAT IS WITH YOU PEOPLE AND THIS WELFARE CONCEPT? You all threw fits when people complained about the removing of the rating bonuses now your trying to get them to take away another feature? Why are you trying to kill everyone else's secondlife experience, by ruining the fun? Besides welfare or not all of you who've been trying to get the removal of the stippends and rating bonus's have been benefiting for quite some time from it and yet now your begrudging others, especially those just coming into the game now for recieving the same treatment? Get off your high horses and leave things alone. Its just in the end -- SELFISHNESS!
Second of all -- Not everyone can afford the monthly fee's or have the spare cash to buy game cash. Not all of us have the super high paying jobs, and do good paying the rl bills, etc. And this proposed schooling system? Sorry but some of us have lives outside secondlife that have to come first. We seem to have gotten a bunch of Republicans in here thus they are trying to transplant their flawed and twisted Conservative Work Ethic to SL.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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09-26-2005 11:32
From: Magnum Serpentine We seem to have gotten a bunch of Republicans in here thus they are trying to transplant their flawed and twisted Conservative Work Ethic to SL. A excerpt from the Magnum Serpentine dictionary for those not familiar with this opera: Economy: *** ENTRY MISSING *** Free Lunch: YUM! Republican: Anyone who doesn't agree with Magnum's point of view. Second Life v1.4 and Above: Abject failure. Weekly Rating Bonus: A deserved right, not a bonus. On another note, I'm really glad I see the world through my eyes and not Boyfriend B's. Regards, -Flip
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Daz Honey
Fine, Fine Artist
Join date: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 599
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09-26-2005 11:42
From: Boyfriend Bailly It has little to do with how much else the user can make from content. It has everything to do with the fact that users can sell theree content for Ls as part of the game/platform. Maybe to you bro, but I know for a fact that there are people who work very hard, far harder than if it was just a game for pats on the back, to make a little cash. Maybe people would just make things that they liked rather than catering to the masses if it was a closed system but real life money really is an incentive to build and advertise, that's a fact.
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All children are artists. The problem is how to remain an artist once he grows up. - Pablo Picasso
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Jake Reitveld
Emperor of Second Life
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,690
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09-26-2005 11:52
stipend is not welfare. i pay cas every month to ll in exchange for the promise to give me 500L a week
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ALCHEMY -clothes for men.
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