Your Real-Life Personal Information

noted!

It's not there, Talen, I checked. I don't know what you are talking about. My blog is http://secondthoughts.typepad.com and just has my SL information on it. There's nothing to be "edited" because I did not knowingly and willingly put my RL information on this blog. If you are somehow retrieving it, the TOS violation still stands -- you don't take RL information you have flushed out of the Internet, that is NOT on the SL resident's profile, and disclose it, or reveal it to others in the game, or use it to harass another player. That's all commonly understood.

You're just trying to diminish this incident and having a field day because you think I "got mine". Believe me, it is that culture of revenge and small-mindedness that makes SL the medieval village that it is.

Exactly.
Sooner or later LL will begin to understand their


Policy/TOS implementation/enforcement Is NOT WORKING

_/_/

Ugh Ok, I may as well jump in the ring and get shit all over me too. I, more or less, agree with Chip and Rickard. But I think there are two separate issues being discussed here and they shouldn't be confused.

1. Publishing RL information about another user on a LL server. This seemed like a clear violation of TOS. Even if that information is available elsewhere on the internet it cannot be published here without the subject's consent. For example, If I post Catherine Omega's RL name and address (against her wishes) on SLUniverse, that public information is NOT permitted here despite being accessible on a third party site. The target of this kind of abuse is irrelevant, be they hero or villain, it's STILL a violation.

2. Prokofy has posted an unprecedented list of wrongs inflicted upon him by every facet of the Second Life community. My own extremely active time participating in SL has been blissfully free of drama and the same could be said of most people I know. It really seems that a certain amount of introspection is not an unreasonable request (this is where I agree with Chip and Rickard).

However, there will be no introspection. Prokofy's abrasive tone and endless spray of accusations leave no segment of Second Life untouched. His posts maximize the violent backlash so that he can use the results to further validate his own points. As a result he gets to be the topic of conversation AT ALL TIMES. Prokofy did more than "ask for it". He carefully calculated every post to guarantee he got it.

Here is an analogy that sums up how I feel about both issues: Imagine if I keep getting assaulted and robbed every night as I take a short-cut home through a dangerous section of town. Yes...they should track down my assailants and bring them to justice. But if I were serious about not wanting to be assaulted, I really WOULD just take a different route home.

Pathfinder,

Excuse me, but I guess you didn't read the messages I sent to you last night, telling you that I was being harassed by Nolan with notes telling me he knew:

1. My full real life name.
2. My gender and sexual identity
3. My occupation.
4. My publications
5. My location

Putting all of these things together one can instantly find my RL home and my RL places of business.

I did not put this in my SL profile.

I did not put this in my blog for SL which is linked to my profile.

If someone is extracting this information, it is against my consent.

I gave you this information and asked you to act early, because I knew that the next step would be that Nolan would start publishing this information and poisoning the well.

Like a lot of messages and AR's, my messages were ignored.

There is a principle at stake here, which is a player can't research and compile information on you from RL, that he has extracted without your consent, and harass you.

You've given Nolan a mere wrist slap, if that, yet he gets to keep stalking me in the game? Holding this RL information over my head that he will "expose" me? That's fun.

It's a good thing I don't deeply care who knows what about my RL. But there are principles at stake here.

A person who "outs" you and "shames" you by constantly saying things about your sexual orientation, your sexual prefernce, your gender, your avatars -- that's a person who should be banned from this game, period.

I'm not trying to diminish anything and I already stated how I felt about the in game IM thing...not having a field day either because i'm not out to get anyone. There is no revenge because you have never done anything to me to and I have no need to get revenge for anything.

I also don't think your posting personality has a thing to do with it ....just because you post what you believe it shouldn't be license to distribute real life information about you. As for the information I got I absolutely won't answer the what and where now becaue I don't want to be banned.

See my response to Pathfinder. It appears people are trying to "rate" different snippets of real life information as to how private they are - that's a mistake. Real life information is private unless the avatar wants to release it. Nolan gave sex and profession and made it obvious he knew Prokofy's RL name. Almost goading isn't it. Which is actually part of what Prokofy was indicating in the initial post on this thread.

You're saying it's minor - I'm saying it's a violation of the TOS and if you start rating how private different parts of real life information is it gets messy.

And in reference to your last line, here are the three main ways which you and many others on this forum choose to use to disregard posts, belittle people or pretend to have some 'zen' understanding of things:

1. It's hyperbole, (you've already used this in this thread)
2. They''re just the pitchfork and torch brigade, (you've used this above)
3. They're all alts of the same person. (somebody else has already inferred this)

I get sick of reading the same people side the same way using the same arguments to discredit. And I'm not talking FIC, I'm just talking about a group of people who would call the grass blue if it meant agreeing with one another, or excusing their actions. But you won't see that now, will you.

Thanks Aimee. You put that much more clearly than I did.

My sincerest apologies if you have an issue with my logic. I wasn't implying that it lead to people giving away his RL info. I was implying that it *could* lead to that and knowing it *could*, should one be surprised if it does?

It has to be subjective Moopf.

Unless you want draconian laws.

What would you like, a computer? Humans moderate this forum. There must need be degrees. If you don't like that, I don't know what to tell you. I get the feeling you just don't like me. Where were you when Angel was accusing people of sleeping with animals and orchestarting mass alt negs? It took MONTHS for her to be banned. Yet I simply assume sex and occupation and you are ready to string me up.

I revealed that I THINK - no hard proof and it was to Prokofy ONLY in IM which prokofy undoubtably took it to the forums just to make a case, in a private message. Shame on me for taking the bait, I gave you something to whine about.

1. I did not mention torches or pitchforks elsewhere in the thread.

2. See number 1.

3. I never said anything like this so what does it have to do with my posts?

Moopf, disagree with my position all that you like, but perhaps do it based on things I actually said instead of putting words in my mouth.

What if you couldn't? Maybe that was truly the only way, not just a short cut ... or other ways were even more dangerous. There are /ALWAYS/ things we don't know.

It is just not right to try to make a victim somehow culpable for what happens to them.

Whether that was anyone's intent or no, it is the message that is sometimes hiding between the lines. We have to be careful about how we say things and mindful of the subtext that is always present.

Likewise. In my previous life as a forum mod, this would have been an instant ban. If we were in a generous mood, we might read the inevitable appeal. Some sign of remorse would have been required before any consideration was given to lifting the ban.

Doesn't matter one bit if the target is a saint or a mafia don.

Yes, this is why I

a) do all forum postings under an alt
b) don't visit anywhere my IP address can be picked up

However, who ever blamed this attack on Prok's privacy because of his contrarian opinions is wrong.

Prok's sometimes flaming ways is an issue, but *EVERYONE* on these forums flames. Constantly. It's quite disgusting.

The problem is because Prok thinks in a way that is creative, contrarian and out of the box, he becomes a lightning rod because this community (yes, I'm maligning the group now.. go ahead and edit me all you want, Pathfinder) is so narrow-minded and pathologically can not see multiple sides of the various issues that confront us.

But I have some advice for Nolan, Pathfinder, and the community at large. When reading Prok's posts, try to keep this quote in mind:

The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and everybody goes "Awww!" -Jack Kerouac

Well..you want LL to do something about someone finding out RL information and NOT publishing it or revealing it to anyone but you in Second Life? Hmmmm..not sure they can, or should do that. If this person hasn't revealed these details to anyone else, then I'm not sure much can be done.

However, if the person is actually threatening you in any way, specially with RL threats, then that person should be banned.

If you don't wish to be IM'd by that person, can't you ignore/mute them? Or is this not a feature? And if the person persists in IM'ing you unsolicited, even after repeatedly being asked to stop, you might be able to Abuse Report for that.

But if a person knows your real name and occupation and city you live in, but doesn't reveal it to others, and they found this all out on their own, how is this a punishable offense by LL?

Harassment is definitely covered in the ToS and should be enforced very strongly, if it is proven. Chat logs should be able to verify if this has actually taken place.

But I can't help thinking you are blowing this all way out of porportion Prokofy, and loudly playing the victim, which isn't new role for you, judging by your own past posts.

Talked to LL about the actual facts and the actual violations of the ToS. But, don't go overboard when nothing harmful has really happened yet.

I was here when Angel did that, I had the neg-rates to prove it until they started fading away. You don't think I think it's odd that it took so long to ban Angel? Absolutely 100% I do. Yeah it took far too long but then an informal warning for releasing RL information isn't really good policy from LL either.

I do like how you're now trying to say you were 'assuming' however - nice way to try and wheedle out of it. You were pretty sure of it when you posted but, oh yeah, that post's no longer here is it.

I don't actually know you from adam to be honest. I've read plenty of your posts as I have with Prokofy. I can't say I like your actions today and I think you should be brought up about it more than just with an informal warning for doing it.

Oh, looks like I left one of my list, the perrenial favourite "whine".

1. My full real life name. -Nope, just your first is all I mentioned.
2. My gender and sexual identity. - Nope, never did know your gender as you have played a cat and mouse game in that respect, revealing it to SOME SLers. Don't reveal it at all if you don't want it spread. Sexual identity? please, I could care less and anyone who knows me can attest to this.
3. My occupation. -I'll take the hit on this one - although I have never met a writer who wanted anonimity before.
4. My publications -Public, 100%. The Cross referencing on Google involved no names, as I had none. After a FEW minutes, your style was apparent in SEVERAL on line publications, and the style fit perfectly with what you yourself told me personally about your TSO history.
5. My location NY. -Big mystery there.

I'll need confirmation of this Maxx... pictures please.

Hehe, you do live in this medieval village. If you change that though I won't be dissapointed.

1. I was referring to your one and only mention of it in this thread, as I indicated by using the word 'above').

2. You mentioned hyperbole on your post on page 2 of this thread.

3. I said 'you and many others' and said that somebody else had already implied this.

And that's twice you've said I've put words in your mouth - I've interpreted the words that came out of your mouth. If my interpretation wrong then maybe you're not being clear enough, or wrapping your real points up in too much other attacking nonsense *shrug*

ditto

For "not knowing me from Adam" it's sure demonstrative of you to assume what thought. And yes, you are whining.

I have decided to give my RL info so that users of SL can contact me.

RL name: Jonathon Lauw
RL Phone # : (911) 956-8978

Give me a call!

No I read your post, there wasn't much assuming going on by you, if that's what you mean. And please continue to say I'm whining - if it's considered whining to think that the release of real life information (which is supposedly against the TOS) is allowed to be gotten away with, or that there's some mystical rating system for private information that determines whether it's allowed or not, then I'm happy with the whining tag as I think it's an important issue. And what you have done today has highlighted some possible flaws, or lack of enforcement, of that TOS policy.

Double-ditto plus infinity