SL must move beyond the Techi Wiki culture

Then why are they crippling players abillity to post events when they want?

Then why did they even cook up this stuff about how you couldn't have events on your land of your own chosing, including commercial events, or events that consist of "here's my land for sale or here's my great built or here's a posrate for a product?"

Honestly, Cristiano, you have Swedish Hostage Syndrome.

A) It's called Stockholm Syndrome
B) It's a stupid analogy. None of us are hostages here. (except you, apparently)

No, Bubelah, I'm not "ignorant" I just happen not to be a game wonk. It's an admittedly specialized field, but then, so are lots of things, including things I'm specialized in.

That doesn't make me ignorant, just not convinced nor informed sufficiently.

I simply disagree with your stuff about the sliders. People coming into this game do not EXPECT warefare. One of the reasons they come here, is to get away from the violence and hazing of newbies that happens in other games. So to push on them that default that they have to suit up in armour just to enter the game and push and pull all kinds of levers just to be prevented from harm is crazy.

Your script-kitties (as someone else called you) seem to have a hell of a time letting go of this one! People don't want to suit up in armour! They want to be left alone! Get out of their faces with your first-person-shooter addictions and habits. It's not the norm.

No, you're just plain wrong that "everyone figures it out just fine" because not "everyone" who comes here comes from a certain FPS warrior game culture. Some do, some don't. So don't push that on them.

Yes, I do feel called upon to criticize Andrew's comment because it is at odds with statements we've heard from Philip Linden about the million members and other statements. It doesn't add up.

Prok, these issues have been discussed over and over in multiple threads. It's convenient how you can keep reasking questions without answering questions or objections posed to you.

Please, if you want to discuss issues, I recommend:
1. As I said in another thread, be more concise. It's your responsibility to communicate your ideas effectively, and your long posts are not.
2. Answer people. If you have conspiracy theories, people challenge them, any subsequent claims you make are invalid because you haven't addressed the challenges.

Isn't it frustrating to you that you have ideas and no one's listening? Wouldn't you prefer to be heard and considered? I have not given up hope for you, Prok. You seem like a smart enough person, I just don't think you know how to seriously debate issues.

Posting RL info without permission. Way to go, Prok.



I guess you're ignorant of the definition of ignorant.

Your post is useless, except for perhaps getting you tossed off the forums for a bit.

The vast majority of people here enjoy SL so much precisely because they don't enjoy FPS games, so as usual your premise is faulty. In the two years I've been here I've been affected by push guns or scripts in a negative way maybe a dozen times, and probably less. Ever. You do so love to make bizarre generalizations about the SL community that are completely off the mark. I imagine you know how to operate the volume on your television. If so, congrats... you've already mastered the skills necessary to understand a slider.

I"m sorry about that Kim, but I had no idea it was somehow something not known. You never said that. So delete your post and I will delete mine. As for being thrown off the forums, as we've seen, you don't get through off the forums for that offense, even when it is more serious and accompanied by stalking and harassment.

I'm not harassing you, I just honestly didn't realize.

The bouncer script is a weapon. It ejects and/or pushes avs.

Precisely because they don't want to be in an FPS game, people shouldn't have to toggle all that shit. Why study an already cluttered, overpacked, and confusing UI to find *yet* another thing?

And btw, it is called Swedish Hostage just as much as Stockholm, and it's merely a way of describing the love for one that tortures you, that's all, and the ability to critizie something that you embrace too hard.

Hiro, I don't see a single solid question here. I just see the usual batch of posturing and insults and stupidity.

Ask some kind of real, legitimate, discernible question and sure, I'll answer it. Where is it?



This is how I am. I'm not going to be changing. So deal with it, or don't. NO one holds a gun to your head to read my posts. Or did you think I'd say, "OHHH Hiro, silly me, I didn't REALIZE! Thanks! dude for pointing that out.



Again, I dno't see any coherent question that isn't just some derisive rant. Where? And I don't make conspiracy theories. If anything, I see no replies to my legitimate points.

Isn't it frustrating to you that you have ideas and no one's listening? Wouldn't you prefer to be heard and considered? I have not given up hope for you, Prok. You seem like a smart enough person, I just don't think you know how to seriously debate issues.

Shoe feels different on the other foot, eh?

No, you're right. It's so much better to complain instead of learn. Damn that TV is loud. Oh well, can't be bothered to figure out how to turn it down.

Chip, I'm sorry but I gotta agree with Prok on that particular point.

We should have an API for the GUI so it can be customized and repackaged for different user bases.

There's a big, big fucking difference between accidently referring to something you thought was general knowledge that was not told as some kind of "secret" by somebody who isn't a friend, and somebody who tells your RL information and stalks you mercilessly, harassing you repeatedly in the game, making threats, and carrying out those threats and continuing to harass and incite others to harassment.

Big, big, fucking difference.

Shame on you, Hiro, for not knowing the difference. I've taken out my post about Kim. Nobody did that for me. And still doesn't. So Shame on you.

I learn the game tools, Chip. They really don't pose a problem for me. The things I find a nuisance and don't want to bother fussing with like gestures I just leave alone.

I'm speaking on behalf of the many people I encounter who just don't want to go through this crap. And you're for adding another layer. Shame on you.

Leave it defaulted to "off" and anyone who doesn't care to learn that and get in a game requiring you to be pushable, doesn't have to.
No one belives - NO ONE - that every user has to be familiar with every feature of the software. To make SL into the grand thing it could be, there has to be a balance between ease if use and power to create. So, there will be lots and lots of options and tool dialogs and strange, esoteric syntax floating around. It's just a matter of getting that arranged so that it's accessable but unintrusive. So those interested in the simple basics, can enjoy ... but those interested in the content creation tools can aslo enjoy. Neither limited by the other.
It seems simple to me. Long term, difficult but not impossible to accomplish, an evolving system, but in the end a simple idea.

Oh, and Prok... I decided to test your claim on the use of "Swedish hostage syndrome" if you google it with quotes you get one hit. If you google "Stockholm syndrome" you get 79 pages of hits.

Considering the nature of what you said about Kim, that could jeopardize her effectiveness in her career. Didn't think of that, did you? Obviously we can't discuss this further without revealing details, so if you don't understand what I mean, just think about it.

That would be good. Layered up a bit at least to keep the "advanced" settings from confusing and overwhelming new users, but still being readily accessable.

I remember that being talked about at some point quite a while ago... having certain options hidden until they're enabled by the user (like debug). Personally I've never been an advocate for dumbing things down. For every user that would quit in frustration because there's too many options you're just as likely to get ones who quit thinking there aren't enough.

No, not hidden. I don't like hidden/dumbing down either (except for things like debug, as that's something that can get you in "trouble" if you toy with it). Layering is just an arrangement of the tools so that there are clear demarcations between the levels of use... it should generate a clear path for learning the software while also allowing a user to just stop learning about it when he or she has reached thier comfort level.
LL is already starting to do this to SecondLife - the way they've arranged the tabs in the preferenced dialog suggests a good start. Sub-tabs would help alot. Another example is the prim editor, where the dialog first comes up without showing the tabbed details windows - a goodly number of users will never need those, just being able to move thier house and furniture around is enough, so why bother seeing info about how the prim is twisted/cut/hollowed?
The drawback is the bit of extra work tacked on to get to the "deeper" stuff. I think it's a small price to pay to keep the features comming without scaring the living daylights out of new users.

Thanks for clearing this up.

I understand now, the difference is....

A- Prok posts RL info about someone. It's excuseable, because it's general knowledge.
B- Someone post RL info about Prok. It's merciless stalking threatening and harrassment Moreover, there is a consipracy to continue the effort.

If you're going continue your new habit of telling posters, "shame on you," I suggest you go say it to a mirror.

"You cannot take people's RL information they have not supplied on their profiles and disseminate it in the game or post it on the forums. Full stop."
- Prokofy Neva

*Wonders what an API and a GUI are*

coco

Excuse me, but I did not *deliberately* post this information and so it *hardly* compares to Nolan so please get off it.



I never "excuse" the posting of RL information, if I have done that *inadvertently* I immediately corrected it within minutes, so get over yourself.

Yes, merciless stalking, threatening, harassment, and continued incitement are indeed different than inadvertentely writing something believed to be in the public domain, and then immediately removing it when pointed out.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/A/API.html
API
Last modified: Thursday, August 14, 2003

Abbreviation of application program interface, a set of routines, protocols, and tools for building software applications. A good API makes it easier to develop a program by providing all the building blocks. A programmer puts the blocks together.

Most operating environments, such as MS-Windows, provide an API so that programmers can write applications consistent with the operating environment. Although APIs are designed for programmers, they are ultimately good for users because they guarantee that all programs using a common API will have similar interfaces. This makes it easier for users to learn new programs.

GUI = Graphical User Interface


Yes, you deliberately posted it. However, you claim that you did not deliberately post something that you didn't think was common knowledge.
Aside from the obvious "do I believe you?" question, in the case where it was your personal information, the culprit said the same thing - that they thought since the info was obtained easily via Google that it was public knowledge.

The point is, Prok, that even if something's not deliberate, doesn't make it right. Now, it's perhaps excusable if someone apologizes and removes the information immediately, but:
(a) some damage is still done
(b) you made such a big deal over your info where you could have done what Kim did and politely ask that the info be removed.

And I disagree with the "hardly compares" statement. Please refer to my last post - if you consider what the nature was of the information, it definitely could be very risky for Kim.