SL must move beyond the Techi Wiki culture

(Warning: this is a not a rant against the techi wiki *group*, it's a rant against the Techi Wiki *mindset*. There is no such thing as a techi wiki group. Just a mindset. Ok everyone? Ok Pathfinder?)

Someone once made a bet with me that SL will be around in another 1 year or so. I couldn't take that bet, because you never know the timing of things. Plus I was optimistic about SL.

However, I can now make a bet - if SL does not move beyond the Techi Wiki culture it will not grow in the way it deserves.

And it's not the fault of LindenLabs for this, either. I truly believe that they are trying to build a framework that can be developed by developers to provide content for people out there in the world that they will pay money for.

However, unfortunately, the techi wiki mindset is throttling it in a very painful way.

With elitist attitudes and beliefs about the necessity of having a 'can do' attitude, the important people, the masses who do not hold the ins and outs of SL as their #1 priority, are getting left behind.

Philip may talk about how the tools are getting better, or how the crash rate is improving. However what we really need, quite simply, is not more tools, not more features, but less techi wiki and more Tringo.

Probably the greatest and most important developer in the history of SL, Kermit, actually gave The People what they want. He gave them a way to be simply entertained and a reason to hang out in SL.

Maybe Kermit buys into the Techi Wiki culture, who knows, but for a moment he stepped out of it and thought to himself - "What do the unwashed masses of SL play lots of? Bingo!"

That's what the techi wiki culture of SL has to do. It has to stop thinking about cool LSL scripts and sharing the latest prim torture and stroking each others egos and start thinking about the unwashed masses. What do they want?

What will get them jazzed and want to hang out and enjoy SL?

I don't know what it is, but I'm pretty sure I know what it isn't:

It isn't going to be contributing to the techi wiki.

Excuse me for not reading every thread in the forums, but what on earth does "techi wiki" mean?

Techi Wiki is a prokofyism that basically describes the technically elite subculture of SL that gets really jazzed on sharing and showing off their skills in prim building and LSL scripting, but doesn't get very excited in delighting joe average user.

Ahhh.. yes. I think (and ya, mostly guessing here, but hey) that most of that came from creators trying to find ways to build/script things *better*. I can see where there is some of that and most people probably don't appreciate it, but it does, in its own little way help out.

Not actually referring to the wiki itself, but rather the mindset behind it.

LL is trying to foster this culture (speeds up innovation), unfortunately it is somewhat detrimental to speeding up a culture of people who actually want to come here, spend money, and simply enjoy themselves.

I would have to disagree with that. I think more and more you're going to see a devided SL... One group will be the majority of the content creators, who embrace this philosophy, and the other group will be the average user who just wants to come here and have fun. There will be, as there is now, cross polination between the two groups, but I expect less in the future, particularly as each group grows to a size of critical mass where it no longer needs to deal on a daily basis with the other.

We already have this; PN isn't entierly wrong. What he (and you) are wrong about, IMO, is that it is a bad thing. On the contrary, I think it's ultimatly going to be what makes SL successfull, if anything does. LL have basicly made it clear that they don't care to be content creators. Beyond maybe a house and some simple things for themselves, the average user either cannot or does not care to (Depending on the user) be a content creator either. So what you need are the people who feel compelled to make content for all the "tekki-wikki" (I hate tha term) reasons... "Because I can", "Because I wanted to see if it would work", "Because it was neat", etc. And this mindset tends to promote the help-and-be-helped, community-improvement type of atmosphere.

Your thread is one giant contradiction.

Code writers and prim builders = Bad.

But you want to give more people what they want, which requires advanced scripts and new prim builds?

I think Beau is right.

I don't think Beau read what I said at all if this was his interpretation.

Code Writers / Prim builders for the sake of Code Writing / Prim buildng = bad

The fundamental (love that word) problem is that SL is a form of enjoyment for the techi wiki and not a job.

They write code and build prims for *fun* and not because it's something someone elses wants. They don't research what other people find entertaining because they're only interested in what they (the techi wiki) find entertaining.

For example, when I develop a database application for myself I don't even bother putting in field names in a php page, I just keep them blank, often for security purposes (in case someone else stumbled on the page somehow).

If I am to develop a DB application for someone else, I need to understand his or her needs, motivations, level of knowledge, etc etc.

When I read quotes like "you need a can do attitude in SL" I really don't see the techi wiki worrying enough about the fact that the new user is going to be all "can't do" 24/7.

Requires advanced scripts?

What was advanced about Tringo?

In order to grow as it should SL does not require advanced coders or prim builders at all.

What SL requires is people with an advanced understanding of what the mass population can get out of SL, not an advanced knowledge of prim building or scripting.

Agreed. It may not interest you and it doesnt have too, just as no one is required to be interested in anything anyone else is doing.

But the foundation has to ba laid. Without the proper tools, nothing else can exist. They have to keep torturing prims and fixing things that dont work or it will be never more than it is now.

*edit.

Oh, I missed the point. But it goes back to my opening statement. Social engineering is fine and it will advance things for the people participating, I guess. But you are missing the point that SL does not have to be saved, its here and we are all here for our own reasons.

If people like to show off their fancy building skills to other friends, how is that different or less beneficial than someone playing tringo or simply just watching the sunset? Everyone does what they do because its what they want to be doing. I am too simple minded to see the big picture I guess.

I've seen tringo, you probably could have written that in 1.0

And yet, it's been written about in the WSJ and 75% of all events have some offshoot of it.

And yes, if SL wants to stay as a 3D mush / chat service then it's all good.

However, a million subscribers by 2007? I think not.

I have never played tringo. How does that factor in?

I may have misinterpreted some of the above points ... but don't Techi Wiki people get to have fun to? So they build code for "code's sake" because that's what they find entertaining ... but doesn't help to serve the newbie very much. Does joining SL as a player / customer come with a hidden clause that says only create that which you can share with the "techi-wki challenged"?

It also seems to be that whoever created the scripts that run everything from security devices to particle emitters to poseballs ... did greatly expand the capabilities of what other players enjoy and use on a daily basis. If some of those techi-wiki innovators like to feel very proud of themselves, possibly crossing into elitism, separate themselves from the from the "great unwashed" ... and play with scripts that never make a difference in anyone's lives ... ummm ... so?

I have the feeling I'm missing some important information here, and if I did .... apologies in advance.

-discordia

Oh, I (finally) see what your saying. There needs to be a compelling reason to sign up in the first place. SL is geeky and you have to be beyond the Mom amd Pop AOL level of PC comprehension to "get it". Why should people sign up to chat, play tringo, build things, or script?

I suppose your right there needs to be a bigger hook, but it doesnt mean casting aside the other things that already exist and bring people pleasure. It will be something different that brings the mass crowds in to come and stay for other reasons.

I suspect that will happen when SL finally reaches a stability level where a wide majority can simply download it and connect and have reliable tools to work with. The next big thing is out there, dont worry.

Uhh. Are there any theories that don't revolve around a certain group doing something thats supposedly evil?

Not everyone has to be making things for everyone else. People are allowed to do what they want... aren't they? Or did this change?

While certain achievements may not benefit all of SL, they still mean something to someone else. Why must everyone constantly be making things for everyone else? Should mathematicions who specialize in some specific field, stop all their reaserch because its only really benefiting some cause that no one else but they care about? Regardless if it could later be read and spark some devine product later? Should mechanics stop fixing their own cars and be required to fix a minimum of other peoples? Should my neighbour mow my lawn when he's mowing his just because he has the ability to?

While there are alot of smart people in SL who I'd love to see what they could come up with given a certain subject, I'm not going to penalize them for not doing it, if they don't want to do it, leave em alone and be thankfull for the ones who actualy do do stuff you find enjoyable.

The key word here is where. I'm kidding; the keyword is stability. SL is not ready for prime time. The techiwiki types are still helping LL test through all the models to produce a stable, scalable platform.

We're nowhere near a point of mass marketing to millions of people that they can just download and connect and expect things to work. We still have hours fraut with login and asset issuse almosts daily with only a few thousand people playing at a time. LL can't give up the techiwiki mindset yet. Neither can they afford to ignore or run off the techiwiki residents. When the bulk of the testing is completed and the software is ready for production, I take that back, they can't ever really afford to loose that.

But I have to agree that SL is already too large to call it one community. The nontech population grows continually and even they don't gel into a single community. I expect that what you want to happen inworld, already has. But it's going to be limited and small scale until the client is open, at lest to the point of having an api available, and the server is shrinkwrapped and licensed.

SL will create more professional goods and services (i.e. focusing on the "unwashed masses" and thier $L) as the economy grows. It's just an issue of scale. To a lot of people SL is not an attractive second job, and it only makes sense as a hobby. I provide builds, scripts and services for free because the money I might make off of selling it (and supporting it) is not worth the time and effort involved. If my priority for the time I spend on SL were to change from entertainment to income, I still wouldn't be selling things in SL, because there are more lucrative ways in the real world for me to earn extra cash. There are more "unwashed masses" to please outside of SL, and with more money, than inside SL. But overall as the economy in SL has grown we have seen a steady increase in the number and quality of professional goods and services. So I'd say it's just a matter of time. As SL becomes a better place to make money, more people will make money in SL, and people will have more things to spend their money on. If you want to accelerate that, I wouldn't concentrate on hobbyist culture; I'd come up with suggestions for LL on how to continue to improve SL as a professional business environment. You can't get rid of the skilled hobbyists. Even if SL became inhospitable they'd just go make Half-life 2 maps or work in 3DSMax. But you can lure more skilled professionals focused on paying customers and their "needs".

Thought it appriopriate.

I agree with you Blaze. The techy types need to hang out and inspire each other, and there's nothing wrong with building for building's sake. But the successful projects (like Tringo) appeal to people in a more basic sense. And most people aren't interested in whether it's LSL or XML or whatever.

But saying what we "should" do doesn't help much. From a business perspective, if you're a builder or scripter and want to make money, you need to find something that will draw other people; not just builders or scripters. Solving a technical problem with a brilliant solution will only get you so far.

The problem I see as a programmer is this:

Programmers (on average) are like writers nad other artists. Most do not write for the money, they write because they feel it's what they should do. There has always been better money elsewhere, but some like to code.

A part of that is showing off your latest 'trick pony' to others who can understand what you did. Discussing technique... Think of programmers as the modern masonic guild...

The problem is, you will never get things like tringo without the the 'wiki' culture. You know why? Because in 99% of the cases, creative people who are also programmers don't think like a marketing exec. They think like, "What cool toy can I make today".

And on rare occasions, that 'cool idea' takes off and becomes something more: Tringo, warcraft, wolfenstien 3d, or even windows solitare...


But it's hard, and sometimes fruitless, to try and 'make it happen'...

I usually avoid discussions of this type, but this time I'll put in my two cents.

Second Life isn't exactly a "mainstream" medium.

In order to participate, a broadband connection is required. There are many rural areas that have no broadband coverage. There are other areas that have only DSL or cable as a single choice. Also consider that broadband service can be a bit pricy in some markets.

Second Life requires an above average computer to play (or "work" if you prefer). That old 600mhz P3 purchased back in 1999 will probably not work. Many of us already here are constantly upgrading our machines. I can't speak for everyone, but since 2003, I have upgraded video on my machine 3 times. Your average Joe Sixpack is less likely to upgrade his machine that often. He would probably have a problem with moving into the 21st Century and buying a new machine. Why blow that much cash on a new computer for one game when he can still Google, download music and surf porn with the old P3?

My point? Second Life is one of the first online worlds of its kind. Those of us who are here came because we could get affordable broadband and own fast computers. The so-called FIC are here because we caught wind of the SL beta early. The Midbies and later residents heard about SL from word of mouth, print media, a few tv spots and online articles. At this point, SL has moved away from the "early adopter" crowd and is moving toward the mainstream.

The way I see it, SL will not hit 1 million residents until the general public gets more affordable broadband coverage and enough people get faster stable computers. There is really nothing Linden Lab can do to speed up the process. Sure, they can spend more on advertising, but they can't pick and choose who signs up.

So are you telling people that they should have to go to work - "get a job" - in SL? After they pay a monthly fee? That would be a bit communistic don't you think? You also point out that some just want to be entertained in SL:



So which is it? You are upset because the tekkie-wikkies are here for entertainment, not a "job" - yet you say that "The People", *capitalization duly noted - cocks eyebrow*, want to simply hang out and have fun. Needless to say, I am confused by this, as I am by most of the vague misdiagnoses and outright fallacies put forth by a couple of very vocal, probably sincere, if not misguided idealogues. Simply put, your diagnosis is vague, if not completely errant. You would be better off drinking the water rather than tossing it on a perceived forest fire.

Which is more desirable? Things the way they are - a world in which a myriad of different philosophies can exist interact? Or a very tiny minority's view of precisely how they think SL should be? Isn't that a bit ironic? Imposing while claiming others are doing just the same? Let's say you're right for a moment Blaze, what do you propose to do to "fix" this "problem"? How would you go about changing the way people fundamentally think? Will you scour the grid of tekkie-wikkies and their cancerous influence?

Who will become the Postdiluvian Elite?

What I keep seeing here in these rants about an elite echelon, is a blindness to the fact that SL is indeed going the direction you want. It has been for some time now. In the early stages of SL, it did attract more technically adept people (like you blaze). I am not sure what can be done about that. SL has in-game tools unlike that of other online environments. It was a blank slate. I came from TSO immediately after hearing of SL, and it was by simple word of mouth within TSO. No ads from SL begging for tekkie-wikkies, as a matter of fact, I do not believe SL had many - if any ads at all at that juncture. It just attracted that crowd. Later, by fall '03 we started to see the first waves of a broader audience enter. People coming from all over - There, TSO, Uru, AW, etc., and it continues to this day. Every type of business you can imagine exists. Tringo is king. Clubs are still hopping. People are shopping. Land was made into a a commodity from which begat more types of business. I could go on, but I won't convince you because you have a static notion of what SL is. You've made up your mind. I have made up my mind that my opinion of SL, good, bad or indifferent, will evolve as SL evolves, and it is - that is the one constant.

Bottom line - SL is more business minded now and will continue to go that direction with the addition of things like the inworld web linking and such. However, there is still room for hobbyists and enthusiasts of all kinds.

SL - "Your world, your job"?, or "Your world, my imagination"?, or SL - "Your world, your imagination?"

Me thinks some have a real issue with the latter - the very fundamental motto of SL.

Cadroe, at the risk of raining on the parade, LL are not interested in serving the business and educational communities. This is one world developed for entertainment and that's all it will ever be. We've offered gigabytes worth to threads, notecards, email and group chat of feature and management ideas that would accomodate professional use of the software.

The answers have always been "no," "we're working on that for version 1.3," "that feature might be used to grief the community," "we're working on that for version 1.4," "you just don't understand the complexities of adding that into the code," and "we're working on that for version 1.6,"

Personally, I've retired. Something in the air this weekend made me realize that SL is just a hobby. I'm never going to be able to use the software to offer online tutoring and classroom access to our students. It's silly for me to keep beating my head against that wall. Fate Gardens pays an annual acount fee and it's monthly tier. As long as it maintains itself, I'll just build plants, host some newbie acclimation events, and continue trying to help people create their ideal virtual recreational environments.

That is all.

khamon - Just to be clear, if you're raining on anyone's parade it's blaze's, not mine. I've never really had an opinion on what SL should be. The only thing I've found frustrating is the Lindens' persistent mysteriousness about it. But there's a heck of a lot of people doing other things with 3D environments. Myself, I'm pretty focused now on eventually getting into a graduate program to work on visualization and 3D interfaces. Maybe you can find something else that fits your vision too. Even though SL isn't becoming what you hoped, at least not quickly enough, I think the future for this technology is pretty bright.