SL must move beyond the Techi Wiki culture

Yes, yes, technical mistake. Apologies all around!

I wasn't inventing, it was a simple error. I make them you make them, we all make them.


Prok posted a long while back.

Does this mean I can viciously attack Khamon because he posted on page one??

The point was, he wasn't apart of the conversation between Chip and I and yet somehow he sneaked in the attack.

Sigh. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?

Why don't we all just follow Jeffrey's suggestion - avoid using the words starting with "you"

To be blunt, a lot of the name-calling-class-bitterness-I'll-take-FIC-for-500 is a quick way to garner attention and entertainment for forums. Hence why it's so prevalent. I find it more fun to browbeat people with logic and solutions instead, and see what happens.

As for the rest of us:

A simple error? You accuse someone of viciously attacking poor Prokofy, and then go "oops, my bad". You do that all the time - it is losing its effct, Blaze. I know you think going back and rediting everything and name dropping Pathfinders name all over the thread makes you look less complicit in all of this, but be a grown up. The moment someone says "boo" to you, you cry foul and click the report post button.

Proposing any concept which goes against the grain is a way of getting attention.

Anyways, attacking popular mindsets is a completely valid and worthy social activity. It's something I do, and I think I am well within the bounds of the TOS to do this as long as I don't address a particular group or individual.

Unless someone wants to add that to the TOS as well.

The difference is between us, is that you should be apologizing for 99% of your posts where I apologize for 10% of mine.

In the interest of getting this thread back firmly on topic, I will reask this question:

Who exactly are these evil group think scripterati that are holding SL back. One minute it is the FIC, then it is the content barons, now it is people who can script. It is amazing SL has moved forward one iota with the weight of all these people holding it back. Also, how do you get the REALLY NEAT CONTENT for the click and chat crowd if you don't have people develop it?

Generally, I agree with this sentiment. I think there are things Linden must do in order to appeal to a broader audience. They seem to be trying to address welcome area chaos, but there are a lot of other issues.

Complexity is a problem. Its nice for me, as a tekkie, to be able to fine-tune SL by turning on and off clouds, lights, shadows, and to set cache size, fog distance, etc. But what about all the non-tekkies? Even as a tekkie I find it infuriating when I had to uninstall and reinstall to get 1.6.1 to work, and then I had to figure out all the tuned settings again. I've spent whole sessions tinkering with settings. Very few people actually enjoy that.

A "simple mode" is needed for some things. Stripped down tools, for example, so that if all you want to do is rearrange furniture, you don't have to use the same tools that you would use to build a spaceship. (I'm going to put that in the suggestion box.) It looks like there was an intent originally to do that, with the "more" button on the prim editing dialog, but it has not been followed through on. (It really is annoying when you try to move your counch around the living room and you have all these whizbang gizmos and rulers in your way so you can't even see what you're doing. Prok pointed this out when 1.6 first came out, and on that point I completely agree with him.)


YES. Fix the goddamn bugs. Even the bugs that are "not hindering that many people". Because people try out everything. You can't expect everyone to just kind of know that something is borked, so they waste hours and hours trying to make something work that is completely borked. Then they lose confidence and don't trust ANYTHING.

We need new features, we want the world to get better and better. But we need stability and reliability more than we need new features. I'm more upset by the playtime I lose because of buggyness than I am about shortcomings in quality of the experience. (And I'm a tekkie!)

Buster

99% of my posts? Please Blaze, that is laughable. I make no apologies for any of it. I'm honestly not afraid to call a spade a spade, and to accept mea culpa when I make a mistake, instead of simply using it as an excuse. Thanks for making me laugh though.

Not always. I've had multiple threads on the topic that was recently dramatized - prim copying - up months ago, asking people about the pros of cons, pulling the code, ad infinitum. You're welcome to your opinion, but I think it's more about deft use of Big Scary Words and ALL-CAPPED TEXT OMG NOES instead.

After all, it's a forum. It's what people do.


This is why I've politely noted it as "entertainment." Attacking individuals is also a noteworthy social activity, but not one worthy of merit.

One can easily be had without the other so long as the parties are willing to cooperate. And, usually, they are not.

At any rate, this is again escaping the original topic - which is a bad thing.

That's a good question Blaze. Why is it that you ignore every point being made and just hone in on whatever you feel gives you an excuse to play holier than thou and wag your finger... but only at certain people? Oddly, the most foul and insulting person on the forums never receives an admonishment from you. That makes it rather impossible to take you seriously.

Simple, you don't have to. I really think we have more than enough at our disposal (assuming we fix the bugs) for the click and chat crowd.

Which completely destroys the entire premise with which you started the thread

That's called "logic". That won't work here. You need wildly disjointed non sequiturs if you want to converse here.

since this whole thread was started by being against a 'group' whether it is an assumed group or not it should be locked


Private discussions – the forums are a public area for the Second Life community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc.

Chip, I can't possibly respond to everything. Waaay too much, I can't type like Prokofy.

As for addressing Prok, I have time and time and time again. I have had IM conversations about this, I have TP'd him so I could tell him to stop attacking people. I have long threads in these forums where I explain the same thing to him as I am to you and Chris about this.

As for why I address you and Chris (and not, say, Max Monde or Kris Kritter) is because I respect you guys and think you're pretty talented and bright people and contribute a lot to the world and deserve my time.

Ok, but what about the rest of us that want to move on and create new stuff? Should SL stop getting new features (features which make each new version of SL easier to use) because you think there is enough stuff in it already? If that mindset had prevailed, we would not have animation, we would not have music, we would not have vehicles, we would not have a lot of the things we enjoy. I agree the bugs need to be fixed and stability needs to come back, but that is a QA problem with Linden Lab, not the fault of the group you started this thread about.

Irrelevant - Your example is of a subjective opinion, what was in question were objective observations.

Equally irrelevant. Making auctions easy for the averaje person did revolutionize business, but it's still one, simple task.

To paraphrase my dear friend Blaze, "Oops, my bad."

Bad news blaze. The shark has picked up the scent of a weak argument in the water and is circling you. All that's left is the teeth, the chewing, and the swallowing.

Here's a tip for you next time, since you're one of my favorite forum junkies. Prokofy is a mentally defective sadomasochistic life-sucking forum stain. Value its judgments accordingly.

~Ulrika~

Aww Ulrika, you made my little fin stick up. I'm flattered

Fair enough, Blaze. I appreciate that. But you have to realize that it makes you seem inconsistent and interested only in stirring the pot rather than addressing the real issues that cause these things in the first place. That's why I get frustrated with you. It would be nice to hear your actual opinions and solutions rather than watching you simply push buttons to see what happens.

I feel the same way about you Blaze. Unlike Prokofy, who I know gets sheer pleasure out of causing divisiveness and grief, I think you do genuinely love SL, as I do. I see you just pushing buttons sometimes to see what sticks, and it is hard to watch, because it always turns out to be a train wreck. If you sincerely believe someone or some thing is holding back SL, then show evidence of it and start to make a change.

This forum is filled with people hopelessly addicted to and in love with SL, flaws and all, who want it to succeed. If that is truly what you want, consider just expressing and supporting what Blaze really believes in, instead of being a cheerleader/mouthpiece for anyone else. You don't have to take a contrary stand to be interesting - you just have to take a true, honest stand.

I think you have a lot to offer SL - just yesterday I noticed a picture on my site of some lights you made for Ingrid. I thought that was really cool, and then I turned around and saw you bashing anyone who can script as being poisonous for the growth of SL. It's a weird dichotomy to see you creating things on one hand, then rallying against creators. Thank god that SL is not the forums, because the bleak world that you sometimes paint (and Prokofy always paints in garish colors) does not exist anywhere but in these threads.

ON the topic, someone said . . .

"there are creators and consumers .. how else could the economy work?"

The problem is, the consumers don't have jobs.

By jobs, I mean something pleasant, which requires a certain amount of time and effort and dedication, but which does reliably reward one in the end. People can't buy stuff when people have no way of making money.

coco

I know you don't like this answer Coco, but they do have a way of getting money... they can pay for it, which is what drives the ability of creators to profit from their efforts, which increased the overall quality of the content on offer and attracts the kind of developers that will create things that can meet people's expectations they bring with them from other games and MMO's.

I've seen that fin stick up when it was me treading water in a weak forum argument before. It's no fun I'll tell you that.

Go get 'im killer.

~Ulrika~