Anti-Gay Attack on My Pickerel Land : (

That rocks. Got 'em both!

Date: Wednesday, May 25, 2005
Violation: Community Standards: Intolerance
Region: Pickerel
Description: This joker used an alt account to place anti-gay signage on another Resident's land.
Action taken: Suspended 14 days.

Date: Friday, March 25, 2005
Violation: Community Standards: Intolerance
Region: Pickerel
Description: Crudely made anti-gay flags placed on another Resident's land. Nasty comments as well.
Action taken: Suspended 14 days.

Fourteen days for 2 offenses, the second of which was a deliberate attempt to circumvent the disciplinary action taken in the first incident.



14 days? For hate speech? What a joke.

So it will be a "slap on the wrist". Tolerance for intolerance.

What makes us think that this person won't just make more alts or go to his buddies house(s) and make an account there, under a different ISP?

You can't reform a person like this with suspensions, as a matter of fact she or he and their buddies are probably giggling as they read the forums.

*Falls off chair laughing*So you think thats bad?

We had a full on KKK attack at our club - the burning cross,the morons dressed in sheets etc and all of them from the same Second Life Group.Screen Shots and logs were sent to Linden Labs and guess what happened?

Nothing.

The group is still active and the group leader still plays.

See what I mean? That is absolutely fucking outrageous.

Actually, hate crimes do have a place and are very different from 'regular' crime. A hate crime is motivated by far different reasons and usually involves far more brutality. Think about the Michael Shepard murder, think about the terror that is inflicted on people in these situations. I'll have to dig up the studies I read, they were quite interesting.

Not to say that hate-crimes are always more brutal, every murder, every crime is abhorrent - but keep in mind that hate-motivated crimes are generally FAR more brutal than standard crime.

Prokofy I'm sorry this happened to you and agree with Chris - 14 days is too little.

Thirty day suspension at minimum.

_/_/_/

Intolerance like this in SL is a serious issue. I hope EVERYONE is filing official abuse reports about this kind of nonsense so we can track things. There is NO place for this kind of stuff in SL.

Now WHERE have I heard that before?

Hatemongering is not cool.

Well, I'm a new Linden, and this is the first time I've said this. I'll be working very hard to help stop this kind of intolerance, and to make sure those responsible are held accountable.

Doing the best I can at the moment. Any suggestions on how to do it better are very welcome.

I said that not Cris

And my RL name is Cris!

Merwan are you a psychic?

Thanks, Pathfinder. I do appreciate your determination.

Yep - ban ISP adresses,ban credit card numbers and recruit your veteran players to help you combat this kind of thing that DOES go on in Second Life every single day.

My suggestion? Terminate all accounts on that credit card and block the IPs. The same goes for those cross-burners mentioned above. Being a jerk or calling someone a name is one thing. Hateful, bigoted attacks is quite another.

I've alerted other Lindens about this specific issue. It's the weekend, so it might take a little while for them to chime in, but please know I've brought this up as a very important issue to investigate further.

Considering there's more than one av still flying around after no less than 8 bans, whatever disciplinary actions LL is taking don't seem to be doing the trick. And on a fundamental level, banning an alt alone is kind of like doing nothing. The whole reason griefers make alts is so the alt can be banned and the main account can keep on playing the game. If you're going to bother banning someone, do it right and ban all the accounts of that RL person and do it for 30 days. Have a 3-strikes policy as well. Fourth bannable offense means you're never let back in the game. Of course you can't do it perfectly, given CC and IP hacks, etc., but the marginal improvement is probably worth it.

If LL is really afraid of the business they'll lose because of being too harsh on repeat griefers, that means griefers are a very significant portion of the economy (which I doubt) and we peaceful people should all just pack our bags and head off to the next MMOG.

and btw, Pathfinder, none of this post is directed at you. It's been nice to see you popping up in the forums, especially with that big hat or whatever.

Agreed- even if someone else is on the CC, it's worth it to get rid of this person.

Whatever the motive, if Linden Labs wishes to provide opportunity for it to continue, all they need do is allow the people who do these things to continue to be a part of the community.

A fourteen day suspension is not only minimal, it is an insult to every paying member of this service; people who have placed their trust in those who operate this service to be the arbitors of community standard and to enforce that standard when it is beyond our ability to self-govern.

This is definitely an example of a case wherein that enforcement should take place.

I encourage Linden Labs to review their decision on this matter and to permanently ban the offender. Anything less is support of the behavior and simply unconscionable.

I also encourage those who might share this view to strongly voice themselves not just here, in this thread, but in every way possible in hope of demonstrating to the ones we have granted this trust will understand there is no middle ground to be had on such matters. They are prohibited or they are permitted.

Maybe they're putting them in front of the panel? Remember, a 14-Day suspension is given when they do that.

I think that if an alt does something warranting a suspension then the main character should also suffer the punishment. Using both IP address and CC details should enable Linden Labs to identify alts.

I also think people are redeemable - however unpopular that may be.

The first 14 day suspension was ignored and the person returned with an alt to not only avoid the suspension, but to continue on with the same abuse.

That's not redemption, it's a pattern, and it shouldn't be LL's or anyone elses responsibilty to rehab or help redeem this person after they showed a blatant disregard for earlier discipline by coming back and picking up where they left off.

Not to mention, LL isn't in the redemption business. They have not the time, inclination, expertese or authority to rehabilitate people who do things like this.
LL's only real option is to hit all the "alts" with a ban when someone does this kind of thing repeatedly. Yes, I know there will be "collateral damage". I rather expect that there will be less if everyone sharing credit card numbers and IP addresses is aware that repeated abuse by one member means they all suffer a ban.

Okay, I still don't know how to put someone's text in my reply on these forums. When I find out I'm going to feel reeeeeally silly. So for now I'll just do this manually.

=====================================================
Alexandra DeFarge wrote:

Actually, hate crimes do have a place and are very different from 'regular' crime. A hate crime is motivated by far different reasons and usually involves far more brutality. Think about the Michael Shepard murder, think about the terror that is inflicted on people in these situations. I'll have to dig up the studies I read, they were quite interesting.

Not to say that hate-crimes are always more brutal, every murder, every crime is abhorrent - but keep in mind that hate-motivated crimes are generally FAR more brutal than standard crime.
=====================================================

Nope. I'm not buying it. I can understand your point, but it just doesn't work for me.

History is full of wars and events which meet every criteria for brutality and mayhem. The race for the throne (pick your country) often prompted individuals to imprison, murder, or even torture their own family members. We don't label those as hate crimes.

If a person beats me up because my skin isn't the same as his, that's bad. Right. But it's not nearly so bad as hearing someone say "GYDEON FOX I WILL PERSONALLY KILL YOU." So-called hate crimes have a certain detachment in the perp due to the fact that he doesn't really know the victim. I'm much more worried about the guy who knows exactly who I am as a person and still wants to kill me.

Bad is bad, and wrong is wrong. One victim doesn't deserve more sympathy than another, and no criminal deserves lighter treatment just because he didn't target a special interest group. Ever wonder why attempted murder carries a lower sentence than successful murder? Apparently our society doesn't mind a killer walking around, so long as he's a terrible shot.

If there's anything different about a so-called hate crime, then it's this: The victim often has no prior contact with the perp. The person was picked for some superficial reason. So I can agree with labelling something as a hate-crime for descriptive purposes, but not for severity of punishment.

Of course, you COULD say that this guy violated the TOS against an entire section of SL. What if every gay person in SL filed an abuse report? If they saw the sign, then is it different from being directly IM'ed? Now there's a thought: a class-action abuse report!

Yes. My experience as a game mod who's sent enough greifers to the penalty box to know: If they don't reform after being sufficently warned, they're probably not going to and they're a candidate for a ban, along with all of their alts.

What counts as "sufficent warning" varies depending on the severity of the offence and can be subject to judgement calls. If I were calling the shots, I'd certianly escelate this particular case right up to "ban".

As long as the Lindens intend to remain the benevolent dictators of SL, it ought to be (and I'd venture to say is) their *responsability* to do the legwork required to track down a griefer's alts. Comes with the job whether they like it or not. And I'll grant that its not always easy, especialy given multiple credit cards, spouses on the same acount, etc. (The later case is an example of what an appeal system is needed for, though then you have to watch for greifers trying to pass as an innocent spouse.)

Hi there Pathfinder it's nice to see a FF9 person posting in here. The issue is not inappropriate use of alts but rather the blatent behavior of some IQ challenged individuals who most likely show off their lack of brain cells in their first life as well as in Second Life and what do about them. Lets not get sidetracked into some alt issue please.

I, for one, do not expect LL staff to feret out all of the offenders accounts and ban them all. That would take forever. What I do expect is that LL take immediate brutal action against whichever account did the deed. I mean a lifetime ban with no questions asked. An individual can make as many alts as they want in theory and it is unrealistic to expect LL to track them all down.

Just ban each and every action as they happen and no more 14 day suspensions. Give them life sentences by god. Eventually the bigot/racist will either lose interest or run out of credit cards.