Anti-Gay Attack on My Pickerel Land : (

Do you think that they are not doing this in RL, or that it is not causing emotional harm to someone in SL? It's all part of the same pattern. SL=real people. It doesn't matter what the environment is, the message is the same, and needs to be pushed back against.

Much has been said, so I won't offer up my little thoughts to illuminate bigger ones already stated. Man, do I love SL residents and their insights!

I do have a related question. With regards to TOS ammendments - if there are some crimes that are too unique, heinous, or go beyond the regular griefer stupidity, could we have a Council of SL Residents to offer a recommended course of action for LL to take? LL would have the final say, but this council could possibly offer a resident's take on things that sometimes the Lindens (God bless 'em) are too bogged down to see. I just don't know if discussions on the forums are having as much impact as they should, and it would represent a better "slice of SL" than the forums do.

Example: when griefing turns into something more sinister like hate crimes, most residents feel a need to do more than simply suspend an offender for 14 days, even for the first offense.

I am thinking of residents who have a reputation for conflict resolution and who would have the time and experience in offering really valid suggestions. I doubt that this would become an elitist group anymore than Live Help or Mentor groups. I'm sure that most older residents who read this will suggest group titles like "Glutton For Punishment" or "Burnout Express" but I am eternally optimistic about the value of communication.

I'd love to see a Townhall, too.

Thanks! Going back to my feijuada now

SL is such a nice little world, that we sometimes forget that it isn't real. These "hate crimes" (when committed in SL) aren't actually crimes in any sense. It's not a crime in any of the fifty States to hurt someones feelings, and that's about all a person can do in SL unless they can find a way to scam you out of your Linden Dollars.

What we actually have here is a virtual world owned by a private company. Real world comparisons just don't fit in some cases. As a privately owned Environment, the Lindens could permanently ban me just for owning a copy of the Star Wars Holiday Special. (Which I do... and if you can sit past the boring bits it's funny as hell...) Or they could say that they don't like my haircut. Whatever.

The matter at hand is this: The dude violated the TOS in a way that made a majority of the residents angry. Some are so angry, in fact, that they'll flame each other on the forums about what to do to the guy. If I owned a restaurant, I'd gladly get rid of one customer if it meant that fifteen more wouldn't take their lunch-breaks somewhere else.

The good news is that the Lindens ARE on the case, and several of them have posted to this thread several times. It was this guy's first offense, and so he got 14 days. Those are the rules. And we need to remember that if we set up first offense bans, it won't be long before people start making false accusations for personal reasons.

I agree with Shadow on this one. Taking action according to the TOS, but refusing to get into flame wars with the griefer. It all comes down to reporting what you see.

All I can say is that this response is MUCH more heartening than what I've seen on There. A while back somebody made a gay pride shirt on There; I bought one. Shortly after that shirt was made, several "straight pride" shirts sprang up - long-sleeved, t-shirts, all different styles. People can wear whatever shirts they want, of course, IRL and online, but on There it became a vehicle for some seriously homophobic interaction. I'm new to SL and I'm grateful and relieved to see that the community does not approve of hate speech and anti-queer postings. (Whether it happens or not and whether it's punished or not is another matter - I'm just glad to see that most people do not approve of this kind of thing.)

Chris, this is where we begin to disagree and respectfully so. The primary thing we have to focus on here is the distinction between Reality and Virtual Reality.

Yes it is agreed that there are RL people behind each and every one of these screens. The difference between "Reality" and "Virtual Reality" is simply this. Level of access.

I know your going to question that so I will explain suscintly as possible.

A) Reality: to cause harm verbaly or physically an individual has to have physical access to a person. So this eludes to several other questions is this individual making RL cardboard signs and putting them in a persons yard are they physically harming them in the Real world? No they are not as it was only done in Virtual reality. There is no threat to life or limb via Virtual Reality and thus a court system would rule this merely as childish behavior.

B) Virtual Reality: to cause harm is dependent upon mental and emotional attachments to values of words and or actions within a 3d environment. This is where the TOS and CS standards of actions come into play. Being that the individuals do not harm as per court rulings in the Real World then actions taken by these individuals generally take a different path than the normal "Group" escalation. (Group escalation being defined as per your discription that follows this Cris) In VR the rules and the guidelines are set up to handle these situations. No, each and every one cannot be handled to the "Letter of the TOS Law". But has to be handled in a mature fashion that is not swayed by mob Justice. Personal feelings cannot at anypoint be interjected into rulings because if they did the the punishment would be biased and the offender overly punished due to a minority few's opinion on the topic.

Yes, I do understand there is a great outpouring that touts that the way the situation was handled was done inappropriately. But thats where conforming to the rules need to be adhered to. Linden Lab made a decision they canceled the account for 14 days. Yes, it may seem a slap on the wrist but maybe this individual will reform maybe not. If they don't then they continue the actions that they are set out to do they will soon be gone indefinately.

Real life we are not afforded Patience because actions are immediate and interacted physically and can be detrimental.

However, VR we have time we can have patience as the "Threat" to life and limb are not there.

Do not mistake for a minute that I am saying be non-action oriented. I am simply saying dont aggress them back within a virtual environment. But use the tools afforded you through the TOS. Circumventing them and using vigilanty tatics and annoucing them on the forums does more damage than it does good. Why? I mentioned that earlier about their egos and will not reitterate it again.

What are some of the tools I mention?

A) Report abuse
B) Report abuse again
C) follow up with RL Phone calls to LL but be diplomatic about it and don't get in a huff.
D) Ban and Mute (ignore in world)
E) Tell your closest friends to do the same thing on their properties
F) Tell aquaintences of your delima on a personal level and get their input. But dont shun them if they disagree as they have that right.
G) but by all means do not allow the griefers the knowledge that they have upset you as doing so only heightens their need to continue. But do everything in your power to let the "Authorities" Linden Lab in this case know of the attrocities they are commiting against you. In VR Patience will prevail.




So Cris in closing this. We do disagree but only on applications of combating. I still hold you in a great deal of regard.
But, I think the definition of the situation dictates the actions that need be taken.
There is no clear line of differences between RL and VR but some things are clearly able to be evaluated through a logical process.
The important part that VR removes the danger variable in the sense that no true Physical danger can come of it.
Then the mental battle and patience to engage through appropriate methods will eleminate discrimination and the view that mob justic rules.
This alone in the end empowers the victims and disarms the assailants.
I hope you understand that and I will rest on this for now.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver

These are some very good points and very good steps. Thank you for spelling them out, Shadow.

What I read -- and what seems to be a primary cause for the outcry in the fora -- is that LL doesn't track alts well, and these are frequently used to "get around" the suspensions allegedly doled out. As I've seen this precise behavior attempted in other online realms I'm inclined to believe the reports of their occurrence in SL. I strongly suspect that the steps you lay out would be more effective -- possibly to the point of satisfying those who would otherwise "bring it to the forum" -- if LL successfully addressed the issue. What I hear here, and what I respond to, is an apparent pattern of failure.

I guess I have gotten a bit jaded, though. "In VR patience will prevail" is an admirable motto, but LL is a for-profit company... and I get the very strong impression that they prefer to pursue their profit motive than enforce terms of service in a fair, consistent, and effective manner.

There is no murder here YET. Granted there can be no true murder in SL things being what they are, but a virtual murder caused by a crime of hate does not make it any less heinous than one in the RL. I do not believed this belittled Matthew's death in any way and would like your perspective on why you think it did?

...this is very disturbing Prokofy..it has also happened to a friend of mine recently..Anti Gay, Anti-Jew, Nazi signs strewn all over her property, and this should not be tolerated. It angers me that someone can be that arrogant and that hateful and do it (probably) in the name of God. i am a spiritual religious person and it raises the question of Who do you think God is really going to be upset by? Loving people or people who are hateful, and judgemental?

I , as a proud lesbian, would like to know who this was doing that so i know who i am dealing with in case i come in contact with them, They should not be allowed to hide in anonymity and they wont if i ever have anything to say about it. It is hard enough in real life for Minorities and second life should be free of all these hateful things.

I am saddened that You were exposed to this and sorry this haoppened.

You seem to have PMs turned off, but I am curious: what does this have to do with the BDSM community in a way that embarrasses you? I am also a kinky lesbian but the kinky part of me doesn't feel offended by this attack - the queer part of me does though. But I don't understand how BDSM ties into this. You can reply in PM if you prefer.

AHEM. Just 'cause some bigot is being a jerk to you doesn't mean you get to equate Communists and Nazis.

I think it's only fair to point out that you're clearly contradicting yourself in this quoted paragraph.

If you don't know what Communists and Nazis are then that's fine, ignorance is natural. But I won't abide you spouting off about them being equal when they're clearly not to anybody who actually knows what they are.


If you want to appologize/complain/discuss it further then I prefer conversation in world to the forums, it's too busy/messy here. I would like to talk about it with you, at least enough so you know why I take offense to something like this.

.....rotfl.......couldnt have said it better myself... imao

With all due sespect you cannot compare a man getting beat up (in general) in a fight or someone getting mugged on the street, etc to a hate crime. They are not singling out a group or targeting certain members because of their sexual preferences or there religious affiliation or the color of their skin and they are as another thread has stated are very violent and torturous, much more so than other crimes against the general public and should be labeled and identified as such. Example: A black man tied to the back of a pick up truck and dragged down a highway to a very violent death. i am sick to my stomach recalling this and how he must have suffered and felt before he died. Or the teenage boy that was kidnapped and beat up and tortured and left to die tied up on a fence. You just cannot compare these crimes to other crimes in general and should be called hate crimes and should have special attention laid on them.After all, this kind of tolerated behaviour is what caused Nazi Germany to persecute Jews. I dont need to say anymore.

No suspension will do, BAN ALL THE ACCOUNTS, LOCK OUT THE IP, LOCK OUT THE CREDIT CARDS AT THIS ADDRESS! A little command line SQL will track down this moron.

That aside, the term "hate crime" always kind of bugged me. Opposed to what, a "love crime"?

-Flip

I know I'm late to the party on this one-I've been away from the Forums spending time IW instead.

I'd like to say thatｉ I find this kind of low brow, ignorant, childish tactic....well....annoying. That's not to detract from how deplorable the act is, but simply to put it in context. What I am trying to say is, clearly the perpetrator wanted to get people spun up and he has succeeded. I'm sure he is getting a big kick out of reading all the posts in this thread. And, as has been stated previously, the LL reaction will be swift and negligible.

In this isntance, I think the best course of action would be to clean up the mess and move on with your life. That's not to say that there is no emotional impact, I mean it has to be disturbing to know that creatures with no opposable thumbs have somehow managed to get onto the internet and even create things in SL. But do not feed these creatures with forum posts. Seek your friends in game and starve the beasts.

The fact that the coward felt the need to use an alt says that we are already on the right track-that is we're creating an atmoshpere inhospitable to this kind of sentiment.

I'm truly sorry that this happened to you, Prokofy, but just rest assured that your life is much richer than someone who has to resort to tactics like this.

At least that's how I deal with Neehai!


-Kiamat Dusk
No, really, one of my best friends is a lesbian and another is bi.

hmmm never had any problems in SL with my openess. Yep, me thinks guys have a harder time being open about their sexuality. too bad.

How mean....some people can be real assholes.

Well -- there are "crimes of passion".

one