The end of Club Elite
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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04-20-2005 08:00
From: Sky Calliope hmmm so i dont use the English Grammer like it should be used...americans really dont they each have thier own slang all over ...even accents... and Talen i wasnt putting down anyone's way of talking/typing just thier meanness of wanting to destroy other things....but then you are not required to go to them or like them....
what is the use trying to tell poeple they are mean for saying ..cant wait for rest to die off....for cant with that much small minded people....Does remind me of that country that we here in US are at war with...the one responsible for NY in 2001...they want all of us to just die off..........ironic how humans seems to almost - i said almost- be the same everywhere in some form, thought, or other..... I understand what you are saying and agree mostly Sky. But just to clarify a point. The people we are at war with, Iraq, WERE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR 9/11. They had no part in it at all. No matter how much the present administration wants you to think mistakenly believe they were.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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04-20-2005 08:06
From: David Valentino
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While I don't see anything overly wrong with any of these changes by themselves, I can definitely see where folks would begin to feel as though their activities and style of fun was less important than others. They have, in effect, become second-class citizens.
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Has SL reached it's peak in potential and population? I have no idea really. But I have talked to many folks that are becoming disillusioned or fed up, or just plain burnt out.
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Without goals, or non-stressful ways of enjoyment, or feeling as though the individual has some importance, I don't see any online environment surviving overly long.
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The sky isn't falling, but perhaps it's become a bit polluted.
Well said David!
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Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
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04-20-2005 08:07
From: David Valentino An interesting question. I've lately had the feeling that the World of Second Life has grown too large for it's inhabitants. So many sims empty of AVs, and empty of any real builds of interest. Many folks seems at a loss as to what to do with their time in-world, oldbies, midbies and newbies alike. Also, the direction that LL is apparently taking with SL, in regards to the large percentage of the population that just wants to socialize, shop and goof around, is having an adverse effect I think. First the lowered bonuses, then the higher cost of ratings, the ending of event support other than educational, and now the fact that unless you own the land, or it is group owned, you can't have others posting events, and then they are limited. While I don't see anything overly wrong with any of these changes by themselves, I can definitely see where folks would begin to feel as though their activities and style of fun was less important than others. They have, in effect, become second-class citizens. Poeple will start to leave if the changes continue to have negative, or percieved negative, impacts on the social-club-party crowd. Even I am feeling some of these, such as being unable to let others go about the task of running Perilous Pleasures, because they can no longer post events. Or the fact that I'm spending alot of money (to me) in an online environment that the newness has worn off from and the cost of contributing to the community, or making a lasting mark, has become far more than any other online MMORPG. Has SL reached it's peak in potential and population? I have no idea really. But I have talked to many folks that are becoming disillusioned or fed up, or just plain burnt out. Without goals, or non-stressful ways of enjoyment, or feeling as though the individual has some importance, I don't see any online environment surviving overly long. Sure. I know. You can make your own goals. You can build in the sandbox. You can create clothing (if you shell out the cash for a good program and want to compete against tons of already established designers). You can create new scripting wonders, provided you can script or have the time to learn. You can create clever animations, provided you pay the cash to buy an animation program. You can stream in video, provided you pay the cash for a web server or media server. And finally, you can visit friends and chat and just hang out. And events and clubs are a great place to do this, as well as a great way for poor folks to make a little cash, or meet new people. It may be that I'm a wee bit burnt out on SL right now, because I know I am, but there are others that feel something is missing, or SL has become a rat-race, money-grabbing enterprise, with the social aspect being shoved to the back of the line. The sky isn't falling, but perhaps it's become a bit polluted. Flame away  I agree, it seems LL isn't really looking at their customers at all sometimes. I don't go to clubs much and I have events turned off but many people do go to events and clubs and thats where their fun is. LL screwed up royally with the whole dwell/traffic idea and popular places list. Now instead of admitting these things were poorly implemented they are taking it out on the people that use these things by limiting events and who can hold them. A poor fix. LL created this rat race and now they want to curb it....in the end it will bite them because they are screwing with things the populace wants....and if they can't get it here when the next SL type game comes along they will seek it there.
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Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day...set a man on fire and he'll be warm the rest of his life 
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Artemis Fate
I'm a big stupid-face.
Join date: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 746
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04-20-2005 08:11
From: David Valentino
Sure. I know. You can make your own goals. You can build in the sandbox. You can create clothing (if you shell out the cash for a good program and want to compete against tons of already established designers). You can create new scripting wonders, provided you can script or have the time to learn. You can create clever animations, provided you pay the cash to buy an animation program. You can stream in video, provided you pay the cash for a web server or media server.
I think you're putting too much importance on money. The reason I make clothes, the reason I build, and the reason that I want to learn animation and scripting is because it's interesting and fun. My clothes barely sell and my builds don't get much respect but I still enjoy making both of them if not for my own entertainment and use.
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 Ko Industries, unique clothes for the unique woman: Ko Industries: Nexus Prime Gibson (main) store"Be still like a mountain, and flow like a great river" -Lao Tse "Deus Ex Machina" "Dom Ars Est Vita Est" "Stand tall and Shake the heavens" -Xenogears
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Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
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04-20-2005 08:15
From: Artemis Fate My clothes barely sell and my builds don't get much respect but I still enjoy making both of them if not for my own entertainment and use. PFFT. What did I JUST tell you about your build in Gibson last night?! *slap* |
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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04-20-2005 08:16
From: Artemis Fate I think you're putting too much importance on money. The reason I make clothes, the reason I build, and the reason that I want to learn animation and scripting is because it's interesting and fun. My clothes barely sell and my builds don't get much respect but I still enjoy making both of them if not for my own entertainment and use. I disagree. I don't think I'm the one placing the importance on money. I believe that LL is doing quite well at that without my help. I couldn't care less if I ever make a dime in Second Life. But I do spend alot on Second Life, and the changes that keep spilling out of LL are making me wonder about it's future. If they wish to become an online shopping center, then I would guess they are on the right track. Or a virtual playground for the rich. But let's face it, club goers and socializers make up a huge percentage of the SL population, and LL is making them feel less and less important, intentional or otherwise.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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Artemis Fate
I'm a big stupid-face.
Join date: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 746
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04-20-2005 08:17
From: Aimee Weber PFFT. What did I JUST tell you about your build in Gibson last night?! *slap* I don't listen to winged ho-bags! Actually I get that a lot but I don't think it's very sincere. And David, LL is a business, the goal of a business is to make more money, what did you expect?
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Ko Industries, unique clothes for the unique woman: Ko Industries: Nexus Prime Gibson (main) store"Be still like a mountain, and flow like a great river" -Lao Tse "Deus Ex Machina" "Dom Ars Est Vita Est" "Stand tall and Shake the heavens" -Xenogears
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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04-20-2005 08:19
From: Artemis Fate I don't listen to winged ho-bags!
Actually I get that a lot but I don't think it's very sincere.
And David, LL is a business, the goal of a business is to make more money, what did you expect? I would think losing or alienating customers wouldn't be a good business decision..but heck, what do i know.
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David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery
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Artemis Fate
I'm a big stupid-face.
Join date: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 746
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04-20-2005 08:24
From: David Valentino I would think losing or alienating customers wouldn't be a good business decision..but heck, what do i know. pfft since when did hardcore businesses ever listen to the customers?
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Ko Industries, unique clothes for the unique woman: Ko Industries: Nexus Prime Gibson (main) store"Be still like a mountain, and flow like a great river" -Lao Tse "Deus Ex Machina" "Dom Ars Est Vita Est" "Stand tall and Shake the heavens" -Xenogears
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Sky Calliope
The Scatterbrain
Join date: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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04-20-2005 08:35
ty David for setting me right on the war, i dont watch tv much here so am not up to date on it all, and it is hard to understand me most times lol just gotta learn to read blonde guess loll...i do agree with most on wanting to better SL, but can do that without removing all the clubs...just got to go do it...sitting back wanting it wont get it to happen... i go to the clubs for it is fun to dance and chat, dont go for the money in fact they can keep the contests and the money lol....they arent quiet in there lots chatting or the ones i been at the time i did go to them...i like meeting new people...bu i also dont want to bother anyone, so when someone is shopping i say hello but dont bother them unless they want to chat..and the builders in the sandbox and homes, i dont bother them for they are working dont want to seem the pest ya know...a few times i would say hello , mostly nothing was said back but they are working  i do explore SL ,love to do that but not so fun to do alone...sometimes find someone to explore it with...now if anyone wants to go exploring with me the more the merrier would had went on that walkabout i read somewheres if was here lol |
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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04-20-2005 08:40
In the real world, nightclubs are known as the WORST Real Estate investment, but I know how reluctant people are to apply RL common sense to SL. The fact any of the nightclubs here stay open as long as they do is little short of a miracle. Nightclubs change names, change management, and close up shop quite regularly in RL. Any club that lasts longer than a month in here is miracle.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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04-20-2005 08:43
Well I can see a reason to reduce dwell payments and not to sponser events and the reason to increase the cost of ratings ... they will curb Inflation in the SL economy.
One of the biggest problems in any virtual economy how to turn off/down the Electronic dollar printing press.
I imagine an eventual goal would be for Clubs to somehow be economically feasible based solely on money club frequenters spend in them.
Unfortunately in real life clubs do this with steeply marked up prices on the one thing most club goers want to buy .. Alcohol.
Kinda hard to get the same demand in a virtual club.
From what i read ont he other post it doesnt sound like clubs actually are huge money earners.
Sounds like Patrick really just wanted to reduce his large Real World Out of pocket expense to something more reasonable. Not actually looking to make any Real US dollars, I assume instead like many players he just wanted to be able to keep the Elite group happy, make some in game money for friends/employees and some in game spending cash for himself while at the same time make Secondlife cost less then the cable bill.
So i dont know how much is reasonable for a club owner to spend per month Real World Out of pocket in order to just be a club owner in Second Life.
My simple answer would be 10 dollars a month - the same as most players.
Currently the clubbing experinece costs the typical clubber Nothing, in fact you can get a little money just for coming to the clubs via the money ball and the contests, etc.
Seems kind of backwards.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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04-20-2005 09:08
".bu i also dont want to bother anyone, so when someone is shopping i say hello but dont bother them unless they want to chat..and the builders in the sandbox and homes, i dont bother them for they are working dont want to seem the pest ya know...a few times i would say hello , mostly nothing was said back but they are working"
Interestingly, Sky hit on it exactly. I don't care for clubs myself, but she's right! Where else can people feel free to talk to total strangers without seeming a bother, since so much of what is done on this game is intense brain work? Why, the clubs, of course!
I agree with everything David Valentino said - virtually every single sentence of every single post in this thread - and said it so very eloquently. (Except the part on the war. Sky, there are different viewpoints on that.)
coco
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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04-20-2005 09:33
From: Sky Calliope hmmm so i dont use the English Grammer like it should be used...americans really dont they each have thier own slang all over ...even accents... and Talen i wasnt putting down anyone's way of talking/typing just thier meanness of wanting to destroy other things....but then you are not required to go to them or like them....
what is the use trying to tell poeple they are mean for saying ..cant wait for rest to die off....for cant with that much small minded people....Does remind me of that country that we here in US are at war with...the one responsible for NY in 2001...they want all of us to just die off..........ironic how humans seems to almost - i said almost- be the same everywhere in some form, thought, or other..... Please, please, PLEASE! Don't post anymore. You make my brain bleed. 
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Cyanide Leviathan
Xtreme Loser Squad
Join date: 12 Jun 2003
Posts: 408
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04-20-2005 09:36
Patrick, I salute you!
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Liona Clio
Angel in Disguise
Join date: 30 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,500
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04-20-2005 09:36
From: Artemis Fate And David, LL is a business, the goal of a business is to make more money, what did you expect? Actually, the goal of a business is to simply make money. The goal of an *American* business is to make *more* money....where success isn't measured by profits...but in the pecent of *increase* in profits. I totally agree with your point, tho. Too much has been made on the 'money-making' potential of SL. I don't have anything against people selling products....I will pay dearly for my PixelDoll clothes! But it'd be nice if some attention was paid to make the people who buy things feel they're as much a part of SL as the people who sell things, y'know?
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"Well, my days of not taking you seriously have certainly come to a middle."
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Sezmra Svarog
Pointy-Eared Geek
Join date: 8 Jul 2004
Posts: 446
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04-20-2005 09:48
From: Shadow Weaver >>>>Blinks<<<<
Um, when did Big John quit running Club Elite is what I wanna know..LOL Coupleish+ months ago? Around then... he and Ana were taking RL too seriously to have the time for it, or something. So they sold it.
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- sezmra svarog
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StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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04-20-2005 10:10
i am sad to see club elite go.
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Sky Calliope
The Scatterbrain
Join date: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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04-20-2005 10:20
gosh cant even post my own opinion without being put down by a few in here such meanness do stop your brain from bleeding before you lose any more niceness from yourself Even the people in this forum that i dont agree are not mean to me like this, we disagree or not....you and the others who have been mean to me for expressing myself are such spiteful hating people it looks like, i say look for i dont know you but you sure making yourself look you get a kick out being this mean or you wouldnt post what you did........ |
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Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
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04-20-2005 10:33
AAAUUUGGGHHH!!! *Flees from the forums with blood flowing from his ears!*
Sorry, I didn't intend to be mean. I am just teasing you about the way you post. Really meant to be lighthearted teasing. Honest.
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I LIKE children, I've just never been able to finish a whole one.
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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04-20-2005 10:35
*hands Devlin a tampax*
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YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net ' From: Khamon Fate Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people !
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Alex Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 228
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04-20-2005 10:58
..i'd just tune out the meanspirited comments sky. pretend it's like the chirping of small birds...because it is... If it's constructive criticism fine. If not, it's frankly like someone yelling in a theater, obnoxious but completely unrelated to the issue. All they accomplish in the long run is to make of fool of themselves.
I've never been a big fan of the huge clubs like Elite, although I have attended them sometimes. I recognize that they served a positive function for many in SL and contributed to the community in their own way and I'm sad to see them go in that respect.
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Sky Calliope
The Scatterbrain
Join date: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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04-20-2005 11:00
apology accepted, yes it is hard to know if someone is teasin or not with typed words
and it is hard to keep up with me or understand me , for i am a scatterbrain lol
I am doing research and looking into land to build a place , a club i guess you could call it lol...but it wont have no money ball and etc...it will have events just not contest like ones, unless can get it where they are fun ones...nothing like best this or best that, depends upon what event is at that time but for example if it was old time picnic ,the contests would be 3-legged races....a sandcastle contest or ice sculpture one....something besides putting on certain thing and chatting lol tho those acan be fun too at times like costumes ....well hope you get the idea lol
If someone could design a baseball field with everything needed for avatars to play the game...would be cool to do, can do teams or even see if the Lindens wanted to play one....
i would but im not designer of that kind of knowledge lol
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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04-20-2005 11:29
And speaking of baseball fields . . . I play Simball in TSO and it is loads of fun!
Course, we play with a whacketball set and so many arcane limitations it's funny - when the fielders go to get the ball, they have to stand one square away (no farther), then pick up the ball. Consequently, the batter hits the ball then a bunch of fielders run to it and stand next to it, doing the totally casual stand animation, just looking at the ball, before one of them picks it up. Very funny. I love Simball. (It's challenging, too, actually.)
Now that is an example of how creative TSO players are. Unlike here, they are limited to what they are given, and are very rarely given anything new, and almost never given anything new to play with creatively. Consequently they have become the world's most creative players in doing all manner of things with very little in the way of tools.
But here is my question:
I notice that baseball uniforms and a bat were released in 2003 or 2004. Now here you got two colors of baseball uniform, plus some kind of bat to use.
What is done with that? Can people actually play baseball (or a form of it) with those? Did people ever use them to play baseball? Is there a ball?
I have the outfit sets, I just don't see anyone playing baseball anywhere. And I would love to play!
coco
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Sky Calliope
The Scatterbrain
Join date: 21 Mar 2005
Posts: 46
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04-20-2005 11:49
i know coco that is what i was wondering but since didnt see a field figure was fashion or costumes lolll
we would play paintball at one 3d place-tho it was more throwing at each other but was very fun even if coudlnt do much lol
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