Why is there so much tolerance for repeated griefing/threats?

I know where you live

Siggy.

Correction... You knew where I lived when you left for work today.

On a completely unrelated topic... Does anyone want to buy a 22" monitor?

Tangents, aye.

Let us argue, elsewhere, how many angels are on the head of a pin, how many devils might reside on a shitlist, and whether their spinning cubes constitute abuse if surreptitiously entering a 512 plot. There's ample opportunity to discuss griefing in SL.

But let us confuse neither issues, concepts, nor terminology here: Threats are not "griefing", worthy of gameplay debate on what texture to apply to the griefer's penalty box. Threats are the real thing.

Cristiano,

If someone threatens you RL, you have every right to contact the FBI and report it. The FBI, because it has Internet task forces, likely takes this kind of issue much more seriously than a local P.D. Should the need be there (and I have no idea what criteria is required to take it to this level), the FBI can get a search warrant issued for LL's player database, and investigate the person.

Knowing that most Internet bullies are full of hot air, I think the threat of this may have a real effect on many of these thugs that threaten RL harm.

This, of course, assumes the person is in the USA, although I understand they may have another set of criteria for International.

Prok:

Name and shame doesn't work when someone's using an alt.

Or when they simply are a person who wants attention.

Anyone who has dealt with hardcore griefers will tell you, they like the attention. They like the threads about them in the forums and they wear the neg rates as a badge of honor, most likely to impress their equally adolescent friends.

First, let me tell you that I appreciate someone paying attention to my blathering in this forum. Second, as you can tell from most of my posts, I'm long-winded but again, a blatherer. Prokofy is long winded but has the grammer part down. Must be envy on my part

I would respectfully disagree. Look at all the issues surrounding predators and stalkers using AOL as their medium. Has AOL really done anything legitimate besides give lip-service to help protect its membership? No.

I'd like to see LL show some balls here and say that they won't tolerate this type of behavior but I would imagine their attorneys are telling them not to get involved (beyond giving the members lip-service) because then they will have injected themselves into the process as policemen charged with the responsibility for protecting its members.

I know that many of you turn to LL to be doctor, lawyer, cop for anything SL related but understand the legal issues they have to consider and face. Again, they could show some balls here but are probably being advised not to take a definitive stance that could be used against them in court. That is why the TOS is so ambiguous.

This is supposed to be an adults-only service. Right now, LL has an easy out with the courts if anything happens re. their culpability. The only thing they would have to deal with is the neg PR that would result from something bad happening. But those stories about predators and stalkers didn't hurt AOL so don't expect any changes anytime soon.

Christiano has raised an extremely valid point here, something I've been wondering about for a LONG time now.In relation to this subject I have to ask.....

Why dont Linden Labs use ISP bans?

I'm a long time player of World War Two Online.In said game vet' players actually have the ability to kick griefers or cheats for a 24 hour period while CRS investigate.The system works VERY well indeed but the point is that CRS will then ISP ban the griefer as well as a credit card ban,I know Sony do the same thing in Star Wars Galaxies too so WHY dont Linden Labs do the same thing?

A ban in Second Life means NOTHING, because ten minutes later you can be back online with an alt and until Linden Labs address this problem then these idiots will always be around.

It's very simple to say that 'it's a 14 year old moron' but I've know some of these people to cause genuine misery and nothing is being done about them at all.Stupidy I lost my temper recently and blew one of these morons up,he was making death threats to a friend of mine and had been for weeks.He was using five alts and creating new ones everytime she found out who he was - I received a seven day ban for my trouble and the girl is still being threatned and abused in Second Life.

Linden Labs need to recognise the genuine upset and fear that these idiots generate and they need to do so SOON.

That part of your post amazes me. The player has been making death threats FOR WEEKS and yet is still in SL harassing someone. That is insane! Does someone have to die first for this to be taken seriously?

I just checked, and even though it has been reported multiple times, the player's profile still contains the same death threats in it, even after being abuse reported by multiple people. That makes me extremely angry - they treat a push gun or particle bomb more seriously than they do a death threat.

Threats should be taken the most seriously. ESPECIALY when the threats pertain(sp) to the RL person behind the avatar.

If repeated suspensions do not result in getting the message through, perm bans should be done.

If someone made threats towards me and LL wasn't willing to do anything about it, I'd be calling a lawyer to see what my options are.

Another fun option would be that for every threat made towards another person, your credit card gets charged by LL. Bet that'd make people think twice about it.

I don't know what the mindset is like over at Linden Labs, but I think they handle some griefing seriously, but when it comes to high paying people or certain people somehow get away with nuking islands, taking down sims, and STILL not being banned. They react quickly to certain things, but then other griefers seem to get away with in-game "murder". I know of some people who claim to have been suspended 7-8 times but STILL are in game. I am not sure what they have held over Linden Labs that Linden Labs allows them to remain in the game, but it must be something, most likely pocketbook. I imagine that LL has such a lax policy on griefers because if they permanently suspended every griefer, it would start adding up and hurting them in the pocketbook. The only way they will take it seriously is when they are sued or it spills over into real life somehow.

Yes Chris - for WEEKS.The guy just keeps on making alts so even though she DOES abuse report him and he DOES get a ban it makes no difference,like I said,do we actually know why LL will not ISP and CC ban these people?

Scary story part two - today my friends Avi appeared at my club,hurled a load of abuse and logged off,I think her account was hacked by this moron as he has threatned to do on more than one occasion.

There are parts of this post that worry me, shit lists? tell the FBI? why the hell should WE have to be taking action against these kind of people?The question that needs an answer here is WHY ARE LINDEN LABS NOT TAKING STEPS TO PERMA BAN?

IT does not even MATTER if these threats are 'real' or not, why do we have to put up with this kind of thing in a game,we sure as hell dont have to put up with it in real life.

I too run a club and I've come across many,many people just like the lady in question at the moment and just like Liv and 90% of the time the 'victim' is a woman.I've played online games for many years and there is, without doubt, some men who get a kick out of causing this kind of fear.It's exactly the same thing as an obscene phone call or a threatning/abusive letter both of which are against the law so WHY are these people allowed to get away with this in an online game?

The Internet is a faceless medium and it attracts these kind of cranks and the day you have to take a threat seriously is a day too late because then its reality.Go ask Microsoft,for YEARS they were told that their chat rooms put kids at risk and sure enough a child was harmed through an MSN chatroom by an adult posing as a kid, hence they put a fee on them and now regulate them - but by then it was TOO LATE.

Someone with LL ear *looks in Chris's direction* seriously needs to find out why perma bans are not in effect in this game.

I added it to the Hotline forum, since it has gotten no response here...

/invalid_link.html

LL seems to like publicity. Maybe you could get the press involved on this issue in SL, and MAYBE that would get a response. In would certainly be better than waiting for the press to get involved when someone actually acts on such a threat.

Why am I thinking of Matthew Broderick in "War Games?"

So now this master criminal is hacking accounts and just randomly determining someone's password. Please before you all start, my background is in security services so I know this does happen. What is hard to believe is that this so-called moron has the wherewithal to figure out the password of the person he is now supposedly stalking/griefing/abusing.

Usually when this claim is made we learn more about the relationship and find that account information was shared, passwords were given and then when things go south, this kind of shit happens and wild claims are made.

Doesn't make what he is doing right and if he is griefing/stalking/abusing he deserves to be hung by the nuts (if he has any) but us gentle readers deserve the entire story and not just that someone burst into your club, told everyone to fuck off and then logged.

Guess this thread has been exhausted?

I think it has a bigger immediate influence on our SL lives than the Anshe Chung situation.

I for one think we need a explanation about what Lindens consider griefing.. and maybe a more in depth look at what would constitute a "break" in the TOS..... I know I know.. been gone 5 months and now i rear my ugly head... not the so nice Evon as I was.. but a bitter shell..

but.. let me ask this... if someone cohersed you into doing something you really didn't want to do... something major.... to perhaps make YOU look good... or.. they 1) would ruin your name in game per say.. or 2) not let you be a part of a BIG project... etc... if thats not a threat against your "fun" or game play expierience... what is it?

I feel the Lindens have their favorites.. who in fact are allowed to do pretty much as the please in life.. regardless of who it may affect... (SL or RL) as long as it makes SL look good in the papers.. or reports...
and these people get away with it... i think if lindens were to go back and read some logs of their "favorite" players... they may find some threats... bullying... etc has gone on.. but yet.. I can imagine they will turn their heads again. i know I have payed quite a bit in the past year.. read alot of compalints... and had friends pay huge amounts for land... and their builds...... only to be disgruntled cause " the favs" get a free island (not 1 but 3???) to publish and create such a great BUILD that lets SL be seen.. and sold... not to mention the people who were a part of it gets all this FREE publicity and recognition..... while other friends own huge amounts of land.. have to pay the tier... and yet complain (under breath of course) cause why say anything in forums? to be flamed? or griefed in world? sigh....
A service such as SL should in fact treat ALL players, users the same.... regardless... we all pay right? Yes I remark like this.. as I feel my life in SL will now be short lived.... but I will no longer read and stay quiet

NO! really????

WOW! maybe I should have thought of that one Bruno!

Or maybe I already did, and actually KNOW the lady?

You know whats really odd though Bruno? thats EXACTLY what Linden Labs said to me,who's alt are you then?

Actually i am amazed on how lax the linden are towards griefers and griefing in general.
They are so lax that i wouldn't be surprised to see a new section in the SL home page:

Grief!

Tired of being chased by the police in real life?
Seconde Life has countless possibilities even for you!
Be an evil mad scientist and deploy your world-wide virus all over the world, create your own mafia or cyber terrorist group, build a tentacular crime empire to strike fear in your foes or smuggle mass-destruction weapons to pave the road for world destruction! Harrass! Threaten! Kill! Bomb!
The possibilities are endless!
And when those weaklings will try to abuse report you we'll send them a pre-recorded message to make them feel safe and do absolutely nothing else!
But the best thing is that if they try to react you will be able to abuse report them and we'll get rid of your enemies for you!
Be a griefer! Welome to Second life!

That seems to be what message is being sent, Shiryu.

It hasn't been exhausted - I was waiting to see if there was any additional response to the Hotline question - it seems that incidental questions can get multiple answers from Lindens, but not one of this seriousness. The player in question has once again been banned - though the account still exists - time will tell if he comes right back and does it again.

Well, looks like the hot line got the typical canned response. I'm pretty sure abuse has been reported many times, as Cristiano here was a live helper... and the words "Report Abuse" are used quite often by Live Helpers.

Here's hoping the Lindens are ready Merwan's ZERO TOLERANCE thread.

-Flip