No really

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So you thought the witch hunt was over? |
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
![]() Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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05-18-2005 06:02
I want to hug Prokofy....
No really ![]() _____________________
*I'm not ready for the world outside...I keep pretending, but I just can't hide...* <3 Giddeon's <3 |
Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
![]() Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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05-18-2005 06:08
the link to the IRC version of Second Life is simply an interface that was installed so that individuals didn't have to go through the trouble of installing and configuring an IRC client to "chat." That IRC channel is not exclusive to SL Universe, it's just a convenient way when surfing the web to stop in and visit. Because it needed repeating for certain reasons. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
![]() Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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05-18-2005 06:13
Nice title "Witchhunter" clever
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
![]() Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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05-18-2005 06:35
I don't remember hearing that the Lindens had to take a vow of silence when they took the job. Are they not allowed to discuss issues about the community with the residents? Isn't this what liaison's do every single day? Pathfinder is our link to LL and now you want to lambast him for communicating with people about issues that concern players Coco?
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
![]() Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
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05-18-2005 06:40
Over? The Witchhunt has just barely begun. Film at 11.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
![]() Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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05-18-2005 06:46
I don't remember hearing that the Lindens had to take a vow of silence when they took the job. Are they not allowed to discuss issues about the community with the residents? Isn't this what liaison's do every single day? Pathfinder is our link to LL and now you want to lambast him for communicating with people about issues that concern players Coco? ![]() _____________________
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Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
![]() Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-18-2005 06:51
Ok, a couple of things. First, I will get this out of the way, even though it was already partially stated, to address what Catherine Cotton said:
The IRC client link on my site was to provide a link to the popular #secondlife channel on the IRC (Efnet I believe). That is a public channel, it has nothing to do with SLUniverse at all. You can access that channel with any IRC client software, I just provided a convenient way to quickly access it. I actually don't even go into the channel that way, I use the chat program Trillian. #secondlife is not affiliated with SLuniverse in any way - it is a public channel on the IRC started by Cienna Rand, I believe. Additionally, Catherine, Robin Linden has posted on SLuniverse on occasion when the main SL forums have been inaccessible - most notably when SL suffered a denial of service attack last year and the web site and grid were out. SLuniverse has the most active forums of any of the SL fan sites, so she posted there to provide communication to players about what was happening with SL. After dealing with Prokofy's false statements about my site, I wanted to clarify that for you, Catherine. -- Now, onto the IRC log. While I do think it is being blown out of proportion, and the calls for Pathfinder's job/head are way over the line, I do think some err in judgement was made on his part. It would have been better to simply toe the line and say that disciplinary matters are private (though ironically people always scream in these forums for more disciplinary transparency). In the end, it was certainly indiscreet, but nothing nearly as provacative as it is being made out to be. A slip of the tongue out of frustration is still a bad thing, but not the end of the world. Nolan has a perfectly valid point - it was fine when his punishment was being speculated by a tiny mob of people and directed by Prokofy, but now that the shoe is on the other foot, it is somehow some aggregious thing. It seems to me we've reached a point where people clearly are on one side or the other, and there is no middle ground. Prokofy has succeeded on that front - there is a divisiveness that is clearly evident over the topic of Prokofy. Since there was no divisiveness before, it had to be created, and it has been done so brilliantly. We have all played a part in this, lines have blurred and been crossed, and no one has come out of this unscathed. It amazes me that one person can orchestrate so much chaos. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. ![]() |
David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
![]() Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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05-18-2005 06:55
You know, I actually find myself sitting next to Coco on this one. That IRC session was not only a bit low of folks, but very, very inappropriate if that was indeed Pathfinder,
The little gossip/plot group in IRC were acting as bad, if not worse than Prok. I thin Prok is offensive and full of crap, but that is MY opinion of him, and others are free to think as they wish. If I don't want to read Prok's posts, I don't. If I don't want to respond to Prok's arrogance and scorn, I don't. I sure don't need to try and talk LL into suspending him, or even report his posts. If they aren't bad enough for LL to take action on without constant urging, then they aren't bad enough for me to hope they get censored or that he gets banned. I also respect HIS wishes in being called a HE. HIS avatar is indeed a male, and thus I will treat HIM as one. Pulling schoolyard taunts and derision out to upset HIM would make me as bad, or worse. Have some fucking dignity and honor folks. I'll trash talk a bit now and then, but would always be in the front of the line to defend someones right to post, and to at least try to act against adversity in a way that enables me to hold my head high. I realize that chat log wasn't intended to be posted, and folks will gossip and giggle, but to have a LL employee doing it with other in-world residents, and some of the comments made, make me glad I wasn't there, because I would have had a few choice words for some of you, and been forced to act in a way that defends someone I don't want to have to defend ![]() _____________________
David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
Merwan Marker
Booring...
![]() Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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05-18-2005 06:57
Has anyone got any proof that LLPATH was actually Pathfinder.... Are you SURE.. ![]() --- Excellent! _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
![]() Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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05-18-2005 06:59
I realize that chat log wasn't intended to be posted, and folks will gossip and giggle, but to have a LL employee doing it with other in-world residents I dunno David, i didn't read any gossiping and giggling. I've had conversations with Lindens about issues. Would you call that "gossiping" with choice residents? Or being approachable and human? _____________________
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Merwan Marker
Booring...
![]() Join date: 28 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,706
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05-18-2005 07:00
At this point a Linden needs to lock this thread and do whatever thinking and decision making they need to. It is not a good idea to start a lynch mob directed at someone's job. Excellent! _____________________
Don't Worry, Be Happy - Meher Baba
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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05-18-2005 07:02
If Lindens cannot discuss disiplinary opinions/feedback/options with one (or a group of) SL resident(s) about another resident (or group of residents), then how in the world could abuse reports and conflict resolutions take place?
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*hugs everyone*
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Ingrid Ingersoll
Archived
![]() Join date: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,601
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05-18-2005 07:04
If Lindens cannot discuss disiplinary opinions/feedback/options with one (or a group of) SL resident(s) about another resident (or group of residents), then how in the world could abuse reports and conflict resolutions take place? Yes, exactly my point. You said it better. ![]() _____________________
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
![]() Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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05-18-2005 07:05
I dunno David, i didn't read any gossiping and giggling. I've had conversations with Lindens about issues. Would you call that "gossiping" with choice residents? Or being approachable and human? I would call the residents talking with an LL employee, and both the residents and the employee sharing "opinions" and somewhat chuckling about it, or making comments about the resident pretty close to gossip and giggling. But maybe not an exact definition. Either way I think it was innapropriate. _____________________
David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
Cadroe Murphy
Assistant to Mr. Shatner
![]() Join date: 31 Jul 2003
Posts: 689
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05-18-2005 07:06
It amazes me that one person can orchestrate so much chaos. It takes a village... ![]() _____________________
ShapeGen 1.12 and Cadroe Lathe 1.32 now available through
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David Valentino
Nicely Wicked
![]() Join date: 1 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,941
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05-18-2005 07:09
If Lindens cannot discuss disiplinary opinions/feedback/options with one (or a group of) SL resident(s) about another resident (or group of residents), then how in the world could abuse reports and conflict resolutions take place? However, that's not what was happening here hun. Pathfinder wasn't talking to a resident about a specific complaint in an official manner. I'm not saying Pathfinder did anything horrible, but I do think it was innapropriate, and probably a situation he should have avoided, or not commented on. Things like that just make Prok seem less delusional and more righteous. Not that I'm saying he IS, but makes him seem moreso, and just ain't that great of behavior. _____________________
David Lamoreaux
Owner - Perilous Pleasures and Extreme Erotica Gallery |
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
![]() Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-18-2005 07:10
It takes a village... ![]() Indeed it does lol. I have to give Prokofy credit - no one has ever stirred up so many people so consistently, to the point of this sort of group madness. From a 10,000 ft. view, it's really something to see generally rational people pushed to this sort of visceral, emotional breaking point. The cracks are showing all around. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. ![]() |
Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
![]() Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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05-18-2005 07:14
While I do think it is being blown out of proportion, and the calls for Pathfinder's job/head are way over the line, I do think some err in judgement was made on his part. In most businesses an employee that was found to be making negative comments about one customer to another customer (or customers, in this case) in a public place would, I'm afraid, be subject to harsh sanctions and, in many cases, would be dismissed. It makes no difference how difficult that customer is. Why is it different here? |
Cristiano Midnight
Evil Snapshot Baron
![]() Join date: 17 May 2003
Posts: 8,616
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05-18-2005 07:16
In most businesses an employee that was found to be making negative comments about one customer to another customer (or customers, in this case) in a public place would, I'm afraid, be subject to harsh sanctions and, in many cases, would be dismissed. It makes no difference how difficult that customer is. Why is it different here? I am glad you are comfortable calling for his head, I think it is way over the line. To each their own. I think it is a reprimandable offense, but a fireable one? Please, that is ridiculous. I know many businesses that would not fire someone over something minor - and this is minor. _____________________
Cristiano
ANOmations - huge selection of high quality, low priced animations all $100L or less. ~SLUniverse.com~ SL's oldest and largest community site, featuring Snapzilla image sharing, forums, and much more. ![]() |
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
![]() Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
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05-18-2005 07:18
I am glad you are comfortable calling for his head, I think it is way over the line. To each their own. I think it is a reprimandable offense, but a fireable one? Please, that is ridiculous. I know many businesses that would not fire someone over something minor - and this is minor. I agree. _____________________
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Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
![]() Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
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05-18-2005 07:26
I am glad you are comfortable calling for his head, I think it is way over the line. To each their own. I think it is a reprimandable offense, but a fireable one? Please, that is ridiculous. I know many businesses that would not fire someone over something minor - and this is minor. Is it minor when Linden Lab themselves have staunchly placed themselves behind a 'we do not talk about discipline, whether actioned or not' stand point? They've made a big point about that privacy many times, and would not waver on that. Let's be honest, as part of the community "police" on the forums his actions have compromised that position. |
Tito Gomez
Mi Vida Loca
Join date: 1 Aug 2004
Posts: 921
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05-18-2005 07:27
Although I do not agree with many of the Prof's postings and find his lengthy dissertations annoying, I have dealt with it by simply not reading them, exactly the same way I have dealt with others whose names I dare not mentioned for the fear of being banned.
The truth is that these forums have always preached first ammendment rights and freedom of speech, but when someone has expressed views that have been politically right of center, those people have, for all practical purposes, been driven off the forums. During the presidential election debates, I got a good taste of what the consequences could be of not being a gung-ho supporter of the left wing of the Democratic party in these forums. I was effectively censored but I personally did not feel it was worth fighting over. So add Profoky to the growing list of people that have been chastised and driven off for not being politically correct. As I have always stated, it is not only Republican fascists we have to worry about. Before you cry about me saying something bad about you, think it over, and if the coat fits, wear it. Tito _____________________
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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05-18-2005 07:28
However, that's not what was happening here hun. Pathfinder wasn't talking to a resident about a specific complaint in an official manner. I think that is exactly what was happening. It was just a "group" of residents instead of just one. Which does happen often. Where would it have been more official to talk to a group? On someone's land in world? On a phone conference call? On the forums? On a third party forum? In a chat channel (which this was)? What about an in world chat channel? In *many* of those cases any joe blow could come into the conversation or at the very least overhear what is being said. Individuals and Groups take or talk about "complaints" to Lindens all the time. Usually whenever they can get the opportunity to actually find one (which is harder and harder these days as the world gets bigger). How is this time any different? I'm just not seeing it... _____________________
*hugs everyone*
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
![]() Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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05-18-2005 07:31
Okay, I'll drop my typical jackasserie and get serious for a moment here.
While I would typically say a Linden discussing a specific resident in this manner is a bad thing, in this case, I believe Prokofy had given up that right. It happens when you become a celebrity, a business, or the figurehead for a cause (even if that cause is within your own imagination). Prokofy intentionally provoked (prokofed?) long standing members of the community, put a target on his back, and challenged the "established" SL players and forum members. How you get "established" in a 2-year period is anyone's guess, but there you have it. Prokofy become more than a typical player; with the incessent ranting about the "Feted Inner Core", the rambling posts that read like Autotext out of MS Word, and constant baiting and subterfuge, Prokofy became more than a typical citizen. He became an issue to be discussed by the community, and made himself into a figurehead. At that point, he gave up the right to not be discussed as an issue by the Lindens. Much like Anshe gets discussed when it comes to land issues, Cristiano gets discussed when it comes to fan sites, and I've been discussed when SLBoutique got launched. Many others who've achieved celebrity, infamy, or business success and failure will be discussed, not only as individuals, but entities. While I try to separate my projects in Second Life from myself, so I can continue to enjoy my Second Life, I also realize there is a price tag to my actions in both ways. If people don't like the fact that I'm a bit of a jokester, they may not want to participate in a business venture I'm involved with. On the other hand, it is exactly that which attracts many people. On the other side of the street, people like Prokofy would never give many of us older types who just want to have some fun - and a challenge or two - any kind of a chance, because of the insane paranoia. Between becoming a figurehead of paranoia, his constant baiting of established, well-respected citizens, and well-documented need for attention, Prokofy gave up the right to not be discussed as an issue. Pathfinder did no wrong. (I can hear Prok calling me a Linden apologist in the back of my head!) As you can see by the threads on the forums right now, Prokofy *IS* the biggest issue. And that was his goal all along. Attention. I guess he wins. Well played, Prok. Regards, -Flip _____________________
Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
![]() Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
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05-18-2005 07:34
I would never venture to alt hunt, but Prokofy and Philip espouse the same ideas so closely that I've wondered at times if they're each other. Mister Philip skirts the issues and says whatever people want to hear at the time. We don't really listen to him anymore because what he says hardly ever reflects what LL does. So Doctor Prokofy comes alongs and states issues frankly. The problem is that they're couched in so much verbosity, the points get lost and people end up arguing sidelines. But when I glean just about anything Prok says, that's an actual point, it generally matches exactly the attitude the Philip enforces on the development of the Second Life community, economy and software.
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Visit the Fate Gardens Website @ fategardens.net
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