Do you support a Grid-Wide Sales Tax to Fund Events?

I'm sorry but I don't see a tax magically making SL more cultured with these things you cite. In fact I don't see the things you cite in SL.

If people decided to create these thing I would probably help with funding and donations.

Private sector funding - just like the real world.


Oh and I noticed you didn't comment on subsidising me....


Siggy.

I went back and couldn't find where you mentioned what those subsidies are. Could you point them out for me?

Um . . . this more or less confirms what I was beginning to think after reading the first 2-3 pages of this thread.

Cause I was gonna ask, what is it, do you all hate events or something?

I am not holding events. I am building things. Why? Because there is some incentive for building things - i.e., MONEY - and none in holding events.

Tell ya what, why don't all us content creators (i.e., those of us who make content that is PHYSICAL as opposed to content that is social and entertainment) agree to put our wares out for free, and stand there politely suggesting that tips are appreciated, or that people donate whatever they wish?

coco

Again, 3D content makers are already subsidized. You get to sell your items again and again and again, never paying for individual prims as they are recreated or scripts as they proliferate. 3D content makers are subsidized AND have access to volume. Events makers do not have access to volume. It is not a level playing field. It was made even less level by the pulling of events funding.

One word:

Traffic.

The only reason I've seen so far that it might not be practical for attendees to pay for events is that the system for charging people to attend an event doesn't work well enough. If that's the case, I think the solution is to improve that system. I pay $22.50 quarterly plus $25 a month to enjoy SL. That feels like a substantial tax to me. It goes to Linden salaries, server costs, bandwidth costs, etc. These seem to me to be the real public infrastructure of Second Life.

Has anyone ever looked into some sort of membership plan for events? I mean something where event holders form a group and attendees buy a pass which lets them into any event held by people in that group for a certain amount of time . So for instance I could buy the SuperBling Club Pass from SLExchange and get into any club in the SuperBling group for a month. It seems like something the web retail folks would be able to code. Just trying to imagine some solutions.

Coco, I am going to erect a shrine in your honour at the spa.

Why are you folks laying this on other players?

The decisions to steadily reduce support for events were made by LL, not players who "hate events". Your beef lies with LL.

People who produce content have to pay for the land to sell it on. It is also a necessity to continue to produce new content in order to ensure repeat customers.

There is absolutely nothing from keeping an event host from coming up with a successful event and running the same thing over and over again, maybe tweaking it a bit for repeat customers. I believe that's the basis that most RL arts events, such as stage plays, dinner theater, art museums, and myriad Vegas shows are built upon.

Because you don't want that support RETURNED, Nolan.

What Persephone says is true.

This is because people will not pay for online events. The end.

Now, since people won't pay for online events, without subsidies the quality of events will decline (already have, since I decided not to do any), and the light and life of the game will diminish.

It will take some time, but that will leave you stranded with your animations and costumes.

Investing in events and the social fabric of a society will pay off for you, and ignoring it won't.

That's not to say I think a tax would be good - though it's a brilliant idea. I voted "haven't decided," or whatever. But definitely LL needs to see to this gap before the slide becomes any more precipitous and YOU start feeling the effects.

coco

You are wrong. 110% wrong.

I know of an even that sold 40 tickets @ $1000 per ticket and there where people that had to be turned away.

Build it, and they will come. (Unless it sucks)

"People don't feel left handed woozles are worth paying money for! I know! Lets demand that the government TAKE money from them to pay for left-handed woozles, even if they will never use one in their life!"

You seem to be obsessed with creating an inversion of reality in Second Life that simply isn't tenable.



In my three months selling Second Life content, I have received no subsidies from Linden Lab. I have spent several hundred L$ on texture uploads, however. Anyone who creates detailed builds will tell you that texturing isn't cheap. Texturing well is expensive, as often many test textures are thrown away.

Yes. I have. I used to hold trivia events and building classes. At that time, SL events were so lagged, that getting through an event was hell. I opted instead to learn PS, make some clothes and build and sell homes. It was a choice I made, and that's what this is all about, choices. Others shouldn't have to subsidize my choices.

I broke even. Just even, because I handed out the event money given by LL to the attendees as prizes.

It "worked" in so far as I got what I wanted out of it, a good time had by myself and all who attended.

I also gave out the L$ compensation at the end of my building classes. I would ask a few tough trivia questions and hand out 50 to 100L$ per correct answer.

I guess it is all about expectations. I didn't expect to make a job out of it. I have nothing against people making a job of it, but they shouldn't expect to be guaranteed of financial success, especially when that involves dipping into other's pockets.

You seem to be obsessed with creating an inversion of reality in Second Life that simply isn't tenable.



In my three months selling Second Life content, I have received no subsidies from Linden Lab. I have spent several hundred L$ on texture uploads, however. Anyone who creates detailed builds will tell you that texturing isn't cheap. Texturing well is expensive, as often many test textures are thrown away.



I know of no one who is selling for free. Land use is a requisite for sales. Whether you're renting a corner or paying tier for a large shop, in order to deliver your goods to customers, it's necessary to pay. This is something every prospective business must account for.



This point is fallacious and not improved with repetition.



Three events per day, seven days weekly, 52 weeks yearly is 1092 events. Multiply 1092 by whatever draw your event usually pulls. That's plenty of volume to me.



Explain to me why one "business" should have money put in its pocket, taken from my own. Why must I pay the electrical bill of a neighbor I have never met?

Taxes from one industry to artificially support another generally dont work. What needs to happen is the industry itself needs to get profitable. This is simple economics - what should be happening, is the same as RL; events need to start finding ways in which they can sell a product; whether to the visitors (in the form of tickets), or to other parties, like say advertisers.

What people are railing against are that there are some good events which are no longer being supported, but what also needs to be realised was that people previously were "hosting" 7 'thong party' events a day simply to get the money without putting any effort into something wants to visit. If there is to be event sponsorship, it needs to be reviewed event sponsorship which is unscalable for LL to implement.

Rather, it would be better to see things like advertising take the place of LL sponsorship, this forces 'peer review' by advertises to approve events before they proceed, this raises the quality of the events table in total; what we need is an efficient system to allow events hosts to seek out advertisers and sponsors for their events.

-Adam

We got on the dwellnor list for two months running with an organized event schedule and without a moneyball. I therefore feel able to address this issue:

Traffic pays out in even a very very busy place only a small amount and only to the land owner. When we were busiest (April) we were so because of my putting in an average of 4 hours per day to my venue and in addition paying 3-4 hosts per week to host events. The cost of paying hosts used every bit of dwell money, though I only paid them $150/hour for their hard work (our hosts didn't just toss money at people and give them prizes for their clothing, but ran non-gambling games and arts events). Dwellnor awards paid approximately half to 2/3 of the teir costs.

IF it worked, it would be working, wouldn't it? It isn't working. It doesn't work.

In Alabama, we fund education from a trust fund that is suplied soley with sales taxes. It's a horrible solution. A bad economic year means proportionally less money for every educational institution in the state. Layoffs, two hour bus rides and school mergers are common after those years. Then we have a couple of good economic years followed by raises and new positions and equipment purchases so that the next year we can lay off more people, park more empty busses, and not use all those overhead projectors and fancy whiteboards because we can't afford the supplies.

That's why you work out a new business model that doesn't involve "steal from those with workable business plans."

Are you calling me a thief? What is that designed to do other than to be hurtful? I did not call you any names. Why is it okay to call me names? I support the idea of funding events because SL depends on having people have things to do.

I had a workable plan. It depended on the idea of a responsive community, the possibility of finding someone to make a box office script, business people who were posessed of enough foresight to want to market their products effectively through joint ventures, and people who would pay a small amount of fee to the box office.

What I found was that the community was indeed responsive, but due to the dilution of the events calendar, publicity took a tremendous amount of effort, requiring a little experimentation and several hours of work per month. I spoke with at least 12 or 13 scripters personally, offering to hire them to make a box office script. I posted in the forums for the need for a box office script. I still do not have one. I begged people in business to let me help them publicize their products by giving them away as prizes. I found two willing to do this. A third only recently volunteered to do the same. My response was to quit giving prizes for most of our events.

I started with a workable business plan but found that there is not the current infrastructure to make event hosting pay for itself. Perhaps if one had only a tiny piece of land and loaded it elbow to elbow with avatars every night, and never paid events hosts but did everything oneself or suffered the consequences when volunteers burned out or just didn't show up, then maybe one could make it work. The current system necessarily prevents event hosting from working due to the lack of access of volume in direct correlation with effort put in. IF i have 3 events per day, I pay 3 hosts per day. Or put in my time for free.

I don't need to steal anything from you, or anyone. I do, however, want to see SL survive and to have an interesting and varied events calendar. This cannot happen without some events funding.

HOW ABOUT THIS AS AN ALTERNATE SOLUTION:

Have an independent body, organized by Lindens, seek support from businesses interested in supporting events through funding. Those businesses in return for helping LL entertain its customer base, might get the spots at the Luna Galleria that they currently get given to them as a subsidy? Those businesses who willingly contribute 1% of their sales to events get to have their stuff in the Galleria. Funds could be distributed by an independent body that reviews fund-seeker applications and distributes them to the most worthy applicants until funds run out. Would that work?

Why does Linden Lab need to organize it?

In any case, I would be happy to contribute to events that sounded worthwhile or interesting to me. I'm certain many others would, also. That's still not an "event business," however. But it's certainly an improvement upon grafting money from the pockets of unwilling victims through unrepresentative taxation.

edit: In fact, a sponsorship system is probably just what events need. There are plenty of (real life) contests and tournaments and simple parties that are sponsored by businesses. The businesses get exposure and the events get money. Everyone wins. And that's a much more fair system. Value is exchanged for value.

Its peoples drive to be number one...simple.. that have created this need to pay out money. Yes its nice to give money back to the community and I do when I know people are having events I will donate Lindens. my advice.. if you do not have the revenue coming in.. dont pay out.. or you will become broke in a heart beat. Never rely on the system or anyone else. Its your event so you need to be creative . I honestly belive if someone created a great event and charged a cover... people would attend. The Sl community does not mind paying for QUALITY... quality being the key word. No one really has made an attempt at a cover charge.. why cause they think no one will come. As I have stated before.. .the success of an event is not HOW MANY people show.. its how your guest have felt after. If you have made just one person happy.. isnt that what matters?

Tell me what it was. I have asked before for examples of this that might have worked in this game. In all of TSO, I know only of David Pierce, who was able to charge for his entertainment, by selling tickets in advance to his plays. (Which probably worked out to about 50 cents an hour for all his labor, lol, if that.)

Please name me that event, and all other events you know of that have successfully charged admission in this game.

coco

Now that I can agree with - because I can choose to be involved.

Of course there is the question already brought up -- why do the lindens need to be involved? why not start this yourself?

Siggy.

If event hosts want compensation for the content they create, they can do it the same way 3D content creators do it.. by selling it. Linden Lab doesn't pay me to make content, and they certianly don't tax anyone else to pay me to make content. I get zero compensation unless I market and sell my own content. Those who pay for it are those who use it, not every other person in SL.