Do you support a Grid-Wide Sales Tax to Fund Events?

Sales?

Events?

Why in heck would I support a tax on one activity to prop up a second unrelated activity?


There's already a way for clubs to make money, it's called an access fee. Use that first. Prove by use that it doesn't work...then maybe alternative methods can be considered. But until then, try at least the tools available for this purpose.


- Newfie

I've never really participated in the event scene, so that may explain my confusion. But what is it that people need money for to have events? I mean, can't you just have an event? I'm being serious here, where does the money come in?

Regardless of the answer, no, I don't want to be taxed to provide events for people. And in return I won't ask for events to be taxed to pay for my prims.

To pay people to attend.

I respond with an emphatic no. I see absolutely no reason to use my productive achievement to subsidize contests for THE HOTTEST SPEEDO and the requisite money ball. Should we tax all event giveaways to subsidize my development costs? Shave 5% off of every L$250 award for the hottest ass and each money ball so that I can apply for a development grant?

Certainly not.

I fund my own business with my own earnings. In developing my first product, I used GOM to buy enough L$ to pay scripters and license necessary technology. These days sales of current products are sufficient to fund future development efforts, but only because I properly budget and try for acccurate projections.

If club owners would like a viable business model, then they're going to need to learn about things like budgets and marketing and cashflow. I've never been to a single club in real life that paid me money for showing up and dancing. If club owners can't come up with a means of making their club make money, that's their problem.

In the meantime, I have numbers to watch.

The funny thing Jamie, is that there already is a grid wide sales tax funding events.

However, it is a somewhat optional sales tax so I can see how you (and other people on this thread) missed it.

People who host billboards for sales, run vendors or SLExchange or malls or what have you.. they fund events to attract buyers to their place of business.

Basically these events are being sponsored by a % of the economy.

The advantage of this approach to taxation is that it is voluntary and very evolutionary. The best events naturally get supported, at the cost of some global efficiency.

Unfortunately, if LL were to tax and pay for events, that would buy some global efficiency, however we'd get a lot of events which are anything but good at getting people out.

Though, I suppose, you might argue that well attended events are not necessarily the best. This of course is an discussion around public policy as old as governments

Anyways, it was a really interesting idea .. and I can only pray that you'll continue to suggest them. It's this kind of out-of-the-box thinking that makes these forums worthwhile coming back to.

Yeah, I guess I posted a mis-nomer. What I actually meant was a transfer tax. All transfers of funds would be taxed.

A transfer tax is an excellent idea for supporting software development.

I wish that LL would move to that and get out of the 'hosting' game. But, I think they're waiting to stabalize the architecture before making those fast expansion type decisions.

No.

There's nothing preventing you from hosting events to your little heart's content. All that has changed is that event hosts/hostesses and clubs have lost their free advertising through the Linden event calendar.

I'll be damned if I want to pay to advertise your events. You can do that on your own.

- Ace

I think what we need instead of LL paying for events is more education on how people can get their events sponsored.

For example, Meta-adverse has an interesting idea. Host a billboard from them and they'll pay you an amount depending on how many people show up to your events.

Ha, I can't even tell if that's a joke. Although based on the references to $250 hottest speedo awards, etc., probably not. I think I might be getting the picture. An event holder would hold an event at which they gave away $250, which got people to show up. LL would pay the event holder $500 and the event holder would pocket the difference. Is that how it worked? Because that doesn't sound like a good system for generating quality events.

In the past, it worked similar to that.

Although, I think the host was even allotted a certain amount (L$500, I think?) for hosting the event on top of funds disbursed by LL for give-away.

Excellent, Cadroe. You are now right up to speed with the rest of us.

The fact they have no hidden agenda is clear and uncontroversial proof of the FIC's evil plans.

The land page reported total in world transactions of L$87,424,791 for the week beginning 5-1-05.

Here's what would be available to pay out for event support under various Transfer (sales) Tax Schemes: (Keep in mind these figures are per WEEK)

1% Tax --> L$874,248 (USD $3,496)
2% Tax --> L$1,748,496 (USD $6,993)
2.5% Tax-> L$2,185,620 (USD $8,743)

As you can see, even a very small tax could raise a LOT of revenue for event support.

Beyond even event support, a small tax could raise a lot of L$ for any cause the Lindens might choose to support.

If I apply an annual 1% income tax upon every last individual in the Western Hemisphere and collect it for myself, I would be set. I wouldn't have to do a thing myself -- I could ride easily on the backs of others. And they wouldn't miss that one per cent very much at all.

But it wouldn't be right.

And that's the point.

I guess I'm not sure what you're saying... taxation is not right or taxation to support events is not right?

Because if you're saying taxation is not right, you'll always have people who will say it is - and some who will say it isn't. And there's no obvious answer.

He is saying that THIS tax is wrong, and that making a wrong tax very very small doesn't help to make it right.

It would be great if we all shared our talents and expected nothing in return. That is not the world of SL, however. People share a bit and expect a bit of incentive also. 3D manufacturers make free content sometimes, but generally expect compensation for the content they create. Why should events makers also not expect a little compensation for the content they create?

A real question for me is: why doesn't EVERYONE care about events? Why do you think people buy things? They buy them to aid in socialization, to position themselves as worthy of socialization, and to enjoy with their pals. Events are the skeleton of socialization in SL. Without events, 3D content makers will see fewer and fewer sales and LL will eventually see fewer and fewer customers.

When people stop expecting compensation for their work in SL generally, maybe events hosts can fairly stop expecting compensation for theirs also. But in the meantime, why should one person's work be worth money and another person's not be?

Taxation to support what only some people do is wrong. It's not like RL where we all benefit from tax money spent on water, sewage, and a variety of other public systems.

If someone doesn't host or attend events, why should they subsidize those who do?

The event host got $250. The prize money the event host COULD apply for, but never got rewarded unless LL could prove that it did actually get given away, was $500.

Any system has people gaming it because they like the challenge of finding ways to game the system. Events host funding (if you remove the prize monies) spurs tourism in SL and that spurs industry. It is vital to the SL economy.

As for why should I support something I don't directly enjoy the benefits of, we can point to the analgous situation of paying for the public school system. I have no children. I am taxed to pay for the school system and happily do so. I take for granted that I get an indirect benefit from that by having well-socialized child neighbours who may, someday, if their classroom sizes have been small enough, be able to make change when I see them in their place of employment. This benefits me.

Events benefit everyone who sells things. This benefit has the potential to be direct as well as indirect.

We didn't all believe in Iraq War II, but we all paid for it.

So I see your point as moot.

Oh boy. Did I agree with invading Iraq? No. It was done without the consent of many as you have pointed out. So you are reasoning that in SL, we should repeat that same blunder? Fully 93% of respondants to this poll say no.

I really shouldn't have to point out that SL has an infrastructure, akin to sewer and water systems in RL, yet there is no equivalent to invading another country in SL. Nice straw man.

Here's an analogy that fits better: If you tax me for all my transactions, I want that money to go to better servers, not to subsidize someone's garden party.

Nope - I don't go to events, because there are no events at the moment that interest me.

So if I'm unwilling to pay with my 'feet' (dwell) why should I pay out of my pocket?



Siggy.

What is so awful about garden parties if those same garden parties stimulate the economy and help 3d makers sell their items?

Look at the education correltation, Nolan, not just the IraqII war analogy. We all benefit from healthy arts and culture in SL.