Do you support a Grid-Wide Sales Tax to Fund Events?

I'm not reasoning anything, Nolan. I'm just saying that in the real world taxes are levied w/o "benefits" being received by all. Just a discussion point.

I'm not actually advocating a transfer/sales tax - just curious to see if the citizentry of SL found merit in it.

There is already support for educational events. How does someone's party stimulate the economy? How does it educate people?

I am not against parties, I think you're missing my point, I go to them. My point is, not everyone does.

Since January 17 there has been a steady erosion in the variety of events. That is because there is no viable way to support them. But I can promise you this: if this erosion continues, sales will suffer. People need a reason to be in SL. They need something to do. If they have nowhere to wear ball gowns, ball gown sales will cease. get my drift? It is in Everyone's interest to see events get healthy again.

If you aren't for a sales tax, consider voting for the proposition to restore some form of events funding. I am all for a restoration of a one-event-per-day host fee that pays for the work of making events. Prizes can and should be donated by local industry. Every person who sells 3D content benefits indirectly from events. This IS your issue too. There is no US/THEM. There is US/ US.

People are willing to pay for skins, objects, vehicles and land. Are they not willing to pay for events? That's what's confusing me. If the events are worthwhile, why wouldn't people pay to attend? And if the attendees have no money, how can they really contribute to the economy? I have L$ because I pay LL for a quartely membership and land tier. My US$ go in and L$ come out. In a way I'm already being taxed out the wazoo by LL. I don't understand why people who want to attend events can't pay the same way I do.

Oh? Does not everyone take baths? Drink water? Flush their toilet? Have to get from point A to point B by utilizing public areas, whatever the method?

You're right, you're not reasoning, therefore I will take my leave.

No new taxes.

Actually it's a ME/ME issue.

I don't care much for the current events.

If I don't wish to support them by even attending, why should I be forced to support them with a 'tax' ?

If people don't like anything I make, they won't buy it... if I'm forced to close my store will you give me money to keep it open with no obligation to make something new?

Why not?

If an event turns up that I enjoy I will support it - with patronage, money and donations.

Until then, if the slew of Strip-tringo-sexi av contest-moneyball-yardsales go kapoot... I won't lose sleep over it.

Siggy.

1. event venues do not have access to volume the way makers of 3D content do. We can only fit so many people on a sim without the sim crashing. This means that the door charge would have to be very high to pay for the events host to have a workable wage. Charging a fee at the door also means an events venue is at disadvantage with other venues that do not charge.

2. No box office mechanism: we have no workable box office mechanism that allows for people to pay at the door even if they could / would, even if we could fit enough people in the sim to make this model work. One does not want people just flying around to get a threatening warning that they must buy a pass to be on your land. One wants a box office atmosphere that welcomes customers and charges them while giving them something of tangible benefit (such as a program). Anyone who thinks that this can work now should try it. Try running an event while passing out programs while policing people to see who has and hasn't paid and also watching out for griefing. These activities require a staff of 2 or 3 at minimum. As it is, door-sales would not compensate even one staff person at the rates established by the former (very modest) subsidies for events hosts of $250 per event.

3. SL culture: We have trained people over a long period of time, and continue to train them, that they can and should expect to make money at events. Newbies who are dismayed to find that they have no way to earn Lindens in SL are STILL counseled to go to clubs. The culture has trained users to expect to be paid at events, not to pay to attend them. This continues and is absolutely detrimental to the events culture as a whole.

4. IF you think you have the answer for how events can run as a business without funding, maybe you should try it before telling venue owners and events hosts how they are just doing it all wrong and how obviously they've missed something key. I have heard people who have never even run a single event give heartfelt advice. To me, that is like me telling someone how to fix their carburator (see I can't even spell it, most likely... why would I assume that I know how to fix it?). IF you think you have the answer, try it out. Then you'll know if it is valid.

There is PLENTY of other things taxes pay for that not everybody uses. I said before, the Iraq War II was an example. So is farmer's subsidies. So is health care for non-citizens. So is medicaid.

Your call for a 1-to-1 relationship between tax and "personal" benefit is moot.

The current events exist the way they do in large extent to the pulling of funding in January. Before that time there were a much number larger of interesting events that engage participants. Now the events must be commercially supported.

Imagine a world without the Metropolitan museum, without opera, without symphony, without sporting events, and with nothing to do but to try the free chicken nuggets being given away outside of the local grocery store. That is what SL is turning into. The events that inspire and motivate and interest me are gone too, Siggy. It is the lack of funding that killed them. It continues to do so.

The events you name will not be impacted by return of events funds in any positive way. In fact, they are less likely to exist as more varied events compete with them. Funds for supporting events means better and more varied events.

My sales of clothing have been considerably lower since the stipends cuts, I make next to nothing now, despite introducing new clothes and putting them at several malls, where as I used to make about 1.5k a week. Where is my welfare check? Event holders are not the only folks struggling. What would taking money from other's pocketbooks to support non-educational events do to fix the economy? It would just redistribute money already in the economy, to those who would have us support their type of business.

Do I support a Grid-Wide Sales Tax to Fund Events?

No.

Why?

Because if it were possible to get the content-creating community to hate clubs & social events more - a Grid-Wide sales tax would be the way to put that final nail in the coffin.

I would be much more in favor of taxing event postings on non-Linden land to subsidize dwell, than take money from those who never wanted to be a part of it in the first place. But that's a whole other discussion.


(In fact, its here: Charge for commercial event listings)

This quote is brilliant. I love it!

Another thing to do, is at the beginning of the event, let folks know in a nice manner that donations are encouraged. I attended an event a couple of weeks ago that I enjoyed so much I gave the host a nice chunk of L$ at the end. I would never have asked people who are not interested in that type of event to fund it.

If you can't afford to have an event, go to someone else's, maybe throw a few bucks at them.

Everyone shouldn't be penalized because there is a selfish element (apparently a rather large one) that doesn't want to pay to have fun.

This isn't a punishment. Its an opportunity. This is an opportunity to invest in something that will pay off, directly or indirectly for you personally.

It gives you more freedom of choice if events are funded because if you get tired of building, you could always try events hosting for a living! It gives you more money because a stimulated economy with things to do gives you more possibility of selling your stuff. It gives you more people to play with because a greater variety of people are coming into game: not only those who want to make RL money off of products they make in isolation to put in stores they never actually go to.

A 1 or 2% sales tax to fund events in SL is a brilliant idea. I am wholeheartedly behind this notion.

Last time I checked, I had to pay admission to these types of events.

If your event draws 30 people, and you charge $50L per person, thats $1500L. Way above what LL was paying.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I think that 93% of the other respondants to this poll disagree with you as well.

Precisely; AND tax!

This is a simple supply-and-demand argument. People will pay money for desirable SL clothing, scripted items, vehicles, jewelry, etc. They are not in the habit of paying for events for whatever reason... in fact, they expect to be paid to attend events, so the supply exceeds the demand.

Since there is no true comparison between a real economy (where people have to eat and need a roof over their heads) and our virtual one, there is no basis to argue for an "arts" tax; it's just one step from that to rationalizing paying virtual welfare to people who show they are too poor to afford the latest blingin' boots or virtual clothing on the market. Maybe we should all be taxed on how much land we own instead of how much we make selling content, which would be akin to RL property tax? That would be just as valid a way to collect an "arts tax."

The answer isn't to tax the content creators who have spent many hours developing the skills they need to produce SL content (as well as money spent on s/w such as Poser, Photoshop, etc.). The answer is for event holders to become innovative, work hard and come up with events that people will pay for. Otherwise, event hosting will always be considered a throw-away thing.

It takes me a good two to six hours on average, and sometimes more, to develop one item of clothing to sell in SL. That doesn't include the time I spent researching styles and the SL clothing market, deciding on what I should make, coming up with fabric/texture sources, and actually learning how to use Photoshop in the first place. When somebody who holds a "Sexay-est Black See-Through Blingin' Thong" contest can honestly say that it has taken him/her the same amount of time to conceptualize, plan and execute an event... I MIGHT be willing to consider paying into an event tax.

(P.S. Where are the dinner theater events? The comedy events? The dinner or pleasure cruise events? The "Tony and Tina's Wedding" or "Rocky Horror Picture Show," pop culture iconoclastic-based events? The broadly appealing lecture series and informative discussion sessions? Make an event a prestigious thing, make it sought after, offer a limited amount of seats/entrance tickets, appeal to the luxury market, develop some nice builds to hold events in, make attendees feel special and catered to, etc. And PUBLICIZE, PUBLICIZE, PUBLICIZE! Don't just tune in to some audio stream, turn on the virtual strobe lights, put out some bedraggled-looking freebies, hire some "dancers" in skimpy outfits and hope people will show up. If you want people to pay for events, make it worth their L$s, because frankly, a good portion of the events on the calendar now, and even pre-event-support cuts... aren't/weren't.)

until you have actually held an event, publicized it, gotten people to show up for rehearsals and made it onto the traffic list, please don't tell me that I am failing as an events host or venue owner due to my lack of initiative or creativity. it's insulting in the extreme.

I also have a RL education that supports my abilities to host events. I have an MFA degree in arts administration and have put it to work in SL. I am acutely aware of how much time it takes to build things. I build them too. To build an event such as a sceners competition (the equivalent of a tony and tina's wedding btw) it takes about 8 hours total. For that 8 hours I used to make a total of $250 - 500 (if I got extra donations, which I very rarely did).

If you think you know the answer of how events can succeed in SL, why don't you maybe try it before prostheletyzing to those of us who have actually "been there, done that."

I don't see why event hosts can't make a living. Create a fabulous event, advertise it, charge for it. If people like the event, and you price it well, then you will be successful. If nobody comes... well then, the public has spoken. That's exactly what content creators do.




Many people don't care about events because they don't care about the type of socialization you are describing. I buy stuff that I want to play with or that I enjoy, not so other people will think I'm cool. On a side note, we have noticed no correlation between events and our sales either (mostly clothes and animations btw).

If you want me to play for an event... create an event I'd enjoy. Don't tell me I have to support an event because of some supposed overwelming artistic value. Who decides? You? What you think has artistic merit, I may think is complete crap.

Also, taxes are always passed on to the consumer.. always.

So nice of you to assume we haven't.

Bedtime for Bonzo.

So nice of you to assume we haven't.

Nolan, have you actually held an event? Did it break even? If you can get events to work in the current system, let me know. I would LOVE to talk to anyone who has actually done these suggestions and gotten them to work.

Also not a single person has addressed the idea that in fact 3d content makers DO have subsidies.

I'm saying it's not right for me to apply taxation on a large group of people for my personal and exclusive benefit. Taxing sales to pay for event support exclusively benefits those who host or attend events -- no one else

When a government collects my taxes, they use them to provide essential services that I cannot otherwise provide for myself: Police, firemen, roads, etc.

This proposal is not a tax in that same vein. I get no benefit out of the money stolen from me. It exits my pocket and enters the pockets of someone completely removed from my sphere of interest or influence.

Moreover, a business that relies on money grafted by force is not a business at all.

So does this mean that if I spend a lot of time making a clothing item that doesn't sell, I should appeal to the SL community to reimburse me for it? This is along the same line of reasoning, and I don't agree with it.

The problem with SL events is that people have grown accustomed to being paid for hosting them and being paid for attending them. They are not seen as desirable or worth paying for. The event hosts who can figure out a way around this will be able to make some good money in this supply and demand market.