Everyone please sign this petition

Everyone please sign this petition if you agree with it.

http://www.petitiononline.com/LL123/petition.html

If you dont agree with it please post why, all discussion is welcome. Please dont jack this thread though =(

Here is the thread i posted in the linden hotline, so if you want to know why i am asking for this read there.
/invalid_link.html

Since I don't own a private sim, I don't know how much weight my opinion carries, but I know from my standpoint, as a hoster of websites, if any customer was paying me $195+ per month per server they leased from me, the least I could do for them is backup their server and keep their data safe in cases like Billy's.

Aaron, isnt the ability to back something up a different issue to saying 'i want to keep it but dont want to pay for it for a few months'?

And it's not quite the same as a website, imo, because if that equipment has to lay dormant while billy is gone, without being repurposed, LL lose out. If its repurposed to recoup costs, they may have to pay for more hardware when billy wants it back.

As far as backing up, I already asked the question and received an extensive answer from Ben Linden which gives various reasons why its not as simple as just backing it up. You can read it here.

Well Kris, when you have no choice but to leave it for a extended period of time do to work.. then it falls into a odd catergory. They could easily use that server on another private island while im gone i assume. I am able to disconnect everything i own including phone,car notes,mortgage.. everything.. credit card bills etc.. there is a bit of legality involved in the matter and i am not 100% on it but i know i am able to get most of my assets frozen.. this is one of the only ones that i have been told i cannot get frozen while i am away.

No, because it would help Billy.

>_> <_<

/signed

I don't own a sim, but if I did, I would want to be assured that my data was backed up and that a back up was stored for the future (maybe with a storage fee tacked on).

-Ghoti

I would be happy to pay a discounted tier fee while im away.. but um 1600 usd =\ for something im not using.. blah.. if it was 10k usd and i was using it it would be a totally diff story.

This brings up a serious question ....When you order a sim they use your money to purchase a server. I think at the very least LL should do the best they can to accomodate private sim owners who have basically bought their own equipment ....the sim payment of $200 goes towards upkeep and maintenance. Billy should have the right to have it hidden and since they won't be doing anything with it they shouldnt need $200 a month.

Frankly Billy..It dont matter what we think or say.The Lindens are in it just for the money.Look at all the changes that SL is going through, have they assembled a large commitie to represent the community?NOPE!
So billy...its a lose cause ..if I were you..I would send them all to hell and sell.

Que se vayan a freir papas todos estos hijos de perras que lo unico que quieren es nuestro dinero...que se vayan al carajo! HDP!

I dont thinks its fair at all bro. .
You have been in sl for a long time and have done a lot for it.
its MHO.
What about a reduced fee?
And when you come back billy...watch your rates be down to ZERO..
I know you dont give a ratz ass about it....but Jeeeez...its not fair...
Lets all make mad money and take it out of the game...dont reinvest!
But we have a bunch of ass kissers that will side with them cause it dont affect them..
Now flame away jack asses!

Sorry, it wasn't sold that way. As a sim owner myself, if I hit upon hard times or had something unfortunate happen to me, I would not expect that I could get a free ride on the payments I agreed to make to LL.

If something like that happened to me, I would sell it to Anshe/Schwanson/etc., eat a few hundred dollars and hope I get over whatever RL stuff I have happening.

Life can throw you curve balls, being a private sim owner does not exempt you from getting beaned. People who own mainland land who are unable/unwilling to pay tier sell out and tier down. Happens all the time.

Sorry but no, I don't agree. Like I just said, if they reuse it, what do you expect? to be able to come back and demand it back off whoever is now using it?

Or to fork out and buy a new server for you?

I wonder if they backed up neverland?

I certainly would like this functionality, but not if it bumps off the list the other things I want

Thats just it ...its not a free ride. Private sim owners OWN the sim. You have paid for the server and with that payment certain rights should be forthcoming. Just because you don;'t expect something doesn't mean you shouldn't expect more.

The monthly fees paid for a sim are for housing and maintenance and if you were to be away for an extended period you should still pay something towards that housing and maintenance but I think it should be less. Likewise if you for some reason can't keep up a sim and can't sell it for whatever reason then when and if LL takes it over they should refund the at least half of the server cost .

I know the fee is stated as setup but lets be honest the setup isn't complicated or time consuming and the money is really used to buy the server.

Buying a private sim isn't the same as buying a sims worth of land around the main grid and LL should bow to certain requests from sim owners especially when the request wont affect them negatively.

Alan he is not going on a friken caribean cruise, he is getting deployed with the military. If they are so greedy and cannot even suspend an account for some time who will they help? If they do not want to help the people that protect their right to operate Secondlife who will they help?Its not a matter of selling..he will not get anything close for what he paid for the land..We all know all the Vultures that are perched waiting for billy to sell and take him to the cleaners..we all know who I'm talking about. Greedy bastards.MHO..they say that they listen...but do they act in our behalf?
We are SL!...we are the ones that are creating this world and making mad money for them..lets compromise.

One point to consider though. They used the money you paid for your sim to buy a server for your sim.....I think that should entitle you to a certain amount of ownership....as it is now if you dissapear they will eventually take back your sim and recycle it to the next person that wants a sim and charge again another $1000. Laying out this money and then paying maintenance fees of $200 a month should give the private sim owner some rights to the property be it virtual as in the pixels or real as in the server which houses those pixels.

Did the Lindens say they wouldn't make an exception or is everyone just jumping the gun here?

I mean I see no response from a Linden on that post yet.

Yep, talked with them they gave me a big NO!

This is why I have never bought a Sim. The set up fee was outrageous to begin with especially when you can buy a full system at Wall mart for $450. For 800 down and 200 amonth I would expect that sim to be My Computer and if I ever decided to leave they would have to pull it off the rack n send it to me. But thats just me.

Hell I am sure there are some Tech guru's here that would jump at the chance if LL ever offered for us to host our own sim on our own server. Maybe Charge a monthly Colo fee of US$50 or something. Talk about expanding SL but anyway I digress its moot the servers are not ours we basically shell out 800 for them to gain new hardware and if we muck up or have to deal with RL issues we are out that money as those servers are not really ours but rentals.

Shadow

just sell the sim, and buy a new one when you come back.

Practice makes perfect.

fen-

Talen, I'm not going to argue with your logic, since I own a private sim and it would benefit me too. But it's just not how I see it happening. As you said, they'll repurpose it and still charge someone the full fee if people don't buy between themselves via the sim transfer option, so I guess it's in people's interest to do that rather than pay another setup fee for a 'new' second hand sim.

Which brings me to another few sore points for me I cant resist making: given that my sim is an old one, being one of the first private islands on the grid, and significantly lower spec than the ones they're handing out now for the same money... Firstly, I'm saddled with paying just the same as everyone else for lower spec kit - my thanks for being an early adopter. Secondly, if I sold it, It'd be harder to sell and I'd get less for it BECAUSE its lower spec kit and people know that - my thanks for being an early adopter. Thirdly, if I just gave it up and back to LL... what would they do with it? They aren't going to sell it on as a private island because whoever got that for their money would be PISSED.

I'm not saying LL are right or fair. I'm just saying thats the way it is. Unless they want to change it for everyone and make some clear policies on what private island 'ownership' actually means. Which would be no bad thing.

Hm I wonder if the fee to get the sim is considered a setup fee or if you are purchasing the server? I thought you were basically buying the sim for colocation.

It may say otherwise somewhere though , I haven't really researched it. It do see it talks about that original 980 fee going towards the server, buying the chosen linux distribution, server maintenance, and employee payment.

But I thought server maintaince was in the $195 monthly fee?

Ok, I wasn't gonna go there, but according to BM's previous forum posts, he has been in the military for a while and he bought the mainland land and the sim while active. This always carries the risk of deployment.

To top that off, he volunteered for his deployment. I do not know if he is going to a combat zone or to Tierra del Fuego to run logistics, and that is not important. He volunteered for a particular job and it is not LL's job to change their entire business model to accomodate him.

As for him being taken to the cleaners, take a number. A lot of people, whether owning mainland or private sims have had family, medical, work, etc issues and took their lumps without crying.

I think you're getting a shitty deal and I think now is the perfect time to throw this back in LL's court. By paying the money you did you should have reasonable expectations to upgraded servers and other things that come with sim ownership. Paying $200 a month and outlaying almost $1000 should have some rights such as updated equipment. If we can't own the server and do what we want with them then they should be held accountable to making sure that the sim owners needs are met and that the equipment and fees are used to keep the system upgraded.

I think its unfair of LL to ask such prices and give nothing in return and I feel that they need to step up to the plate now and give the sim owners their due.

Talen,

We all have made a lot of assumptions about what the $980/$195 is for. LL, in their infinite wisdom, has not made any statements to clarify these assumptions. Are their questions that I wished I had asked before buying the sim? You bet. You can see Kris' responses here for all of those!



One can spend nearly as much (or more) on mainland land. I don't see how sim owners are any more special than someone owning a sim or more of mainland land.

As someone who works in the software industry, seemingly little harmless custom requests can bury a company, especially one as small as LL. Look at the chaos of the Hotline to Linden forum. They are getting creamed for taking a few hours to respond.

Billy, sorry but you're wrong, on multiple counts.

1. You did have a choice. Your words, right here: "I just got the chance to deploy so.. i voluntered... ".

2. LL isn't obligated to you beyond what is in your contract with them for the island. If that doesn't include physical ownership of the equipment (for you), or ability to shelve a server, or go on hiatus for lower costs, so be it.

3. You have other options, depending on which is more important to you, keeping the sim or not paying monthly tier:
- You could rent the island in your absence (I'm guessing at less than $195 per month, since the tenant won't own the sim outright, and won't have full access to the island's options; won't even be able to contact you for long stretches of time if they want you to make changes to the island.)
-You could sell it, pocket the money, and put it towards purchasing a new server at some date in the future.
-You could continue to pay $195 per month
-You could cancel your island, lose whatever value it has, but would not have to pay tier any longer.


In this case, you do not get to have your cake and eat it too. You may keep the island, but continue to pay for it, or sell it, probably for less than you originally paid.

LL does not have the same legal obligations to you that an employer would have. You don't even own the equipment, so you are simply paying them for a