The land griefing continues...

I would call that a parody, using his own words. I added nothing, only removed some bits. If you can't read that and understand the point I was making... that those kinds of screeds add absolutely nothing... you're entitled to your opnion. I will continue to vehemantly disagree and point out the vitriolic stupidity of such diatribes... which I feel are not only irrational, paranoid, and delusional, but downright harmful to the community. But then I'm just one of the " powerful hedonistic fucktards who make content."

And another thing... I find it incredibly amusing for you to paint yourself as such a caring individual when this thread started by you publicly humiliating someone because you didn't like what they built, and then blithely ignored every single valid point anyone made pointing out why it was wrong of you to do.

Then if you are so sure he is wrong bring elements to support your opinion. He always brings many (more or less debatable). These are the basics of civil discussion. It's extremely sad that you have to recur to this kind of parody to try and belittle his opinion. And besides being sad it's unrespectful and simply rude.

And the fact the points people broght are valid for you doesn-t mean they have to be valid for me as well. Anyway you can continue to talk, i act (and sometimes succeed).

LOL! There are 12 pages of elements supporting my opinion here.

Yeah and they haven't been brought by you.

I didn't realize I had to spell everything out for you Shiryu. I expected you to have sufficient intelligence to make inferances. I tend to make my points with few words, not ten paragraphs. Should I have to repeat those points over and over again in elaborate detail when it simply boils down to the fact that people building on their own land, for sale or not, within the confines of the TOS, cannot be accused of griefing, and if you make such allegations on a public forum, you are the one who is griefing? Next time maybe I'll add pictures if that would help you grasp such simple concepts.

And if your point is so short, i wonder why after stating it you litter the forums with personal attacks disgused as parody. Or maybe yiou think your posts are not valid enough and you need to belittle people with this kind of hackneyed irony and lack of respect to counter their opinions?

Anyway the definition of "grief" implies causing a damage, and those kind of builds DO damage the neightbors. If you want to defend the right of people to cause damage to others i want that right to be regulated. There are things in life called opinions.
And in the meanwhile i do act to solve such kind of situations, all you do is talking (and trying to belittle people).

Good lord you are thick Shiryu. Have a nice day.

You can lead a troll to water, but you can't usefully argue with someone who has an ideosyncratic definition of "argument". Valiant attempt though...

How does that line go? "If you consider changing topics as a form of productive dialectic, you just might be a troll".

... or "If you consider satire as a form of productive dialectic, you just might be a troll".

Good heavens, this guy is starting to sound like the TIME CUBE person
Prokofy, no offense, but this is beginning to look like an obsession... it's not healthy.
You probably make more money in a day than I have in total. Lay off the crack pipe already.

At first I wasn't going to post this retort. But considering the responses to Chip and others I had to as a point of redundancy.



Funny though isn’t it? The forums were used as a tool to grief the owner of the land when in essence it was a violation of the TOS to do so. Yet no one pointed that out. Yet it was done by "Quoting" the build was an ugly build and should be removed. Rallying a group of individuals to the cause of its an ugly build and should be removed. Sad Sad indeed.

See that’s is what I find truly odd is the fact that you Shiryu mention about freedom and shooting personal attacks and not lending to an uncomfortable situation.

Why was the situation uncomfortable?
I mean seriously was the build on your land?
Did the owner of the build come shoot you every day?
Did they maliciously treat you or your friends in such a way that can be construed as griefing?
No they did not.
But in turn the forums were used as a weapon of grief because of an individual perception.

Funny again no punitive damage was done to those that advocated this sort of heresy yet the owner of the land had to succumb to their conjecture posted on the forums.

Yet the argument was the owners build was griefing someone else not on the owner’s land.
I mean that’s sort of funny isn’t it.
I mean really the irony of the whole situation was the build was a griefing tool yet in the end this entire thread on the forums forced them to remove it was more of a griefing tool than the build ever was.

That is what I find ironic and utterly distasteful. Consider me uncaring if you will. Consider my statements a personal attack if you will. Either way I do not care.

What I do care is another player may be leaving SL because of a Simple griefing tactic called "GO TELL IT ON THE FORUMS"

The simple mentality that one person has the right to presume what is ugly and what is not ugly. For that matter one person that thinks they have the right to control the will of another.
That's what pisses me off.
I'm sure it Pissed Chip and others off as well.

So in closing that’s the whole point isn’t it. The Forums were used to grief a landowner and make them succumb to the will of others solely on the premise it was an ugly build.

I advocate that each person being as they are paying for their tier has the right to build what they want on their land as long as it falls within the guidelines of the TOS (basically an accepted contract we all agreed to when we signed up).
I also abhor anyone that uses this tactic to get people to succumb to their will.

If this sort of mentality continues to be bowed down too then what all the government people want will eventually happen and all the people that helped initially create this environment will leave.

I dare say I dread to see that day. But, when little wars such as this are won by those that have their way about their perception of things then the thought of stupid player run governments will soon follow.

When that happens forget a Metaverse forget SL being of any value as the shortsighted mentalities will take over and the true vision for SL will be lost.

But it doesn't matter not one thing I have said here will make a difference will it?
I mean seriously those that think they are better than everyone will continue to do so and those that get tired of fighting the machine will continue to bow to their wills.

So Shiryu consider my post a personal attack if you will but considering the circular rhetoric posted throughout this entire situation, it basically narrowed down to what I have said.

Have a Nice Day as I have said my Peace if you don't get it now you never will.

Sincerely, Shadow Weaver...The Ancient with more ass than the forums have teeth.

I don't find ANY article in the TOS telling that posting a picture in the forum and telling the subject of the build is damaging someone is forbidden.
I posted a picture everyone can see and judge, i didn't disclose any personal information or secret detail, since those builds are on the grid for everyone to see. I didn't modify the pictures, they are exactly what one happening to pass by would see in game.



Completely blocking the windows of a neightboring building (i mean at maybe 10 inches of distance) and completely hiding it from one whole side, moreover with an enormous light emitting item (that of course sheds half off his sun-like blinding light on the neightboring parcels) causes a REALLY unconfortable situation.



No, but it was disrupting a modeling agency that gave me visibility and space since my first day (and this to many other designers) and workplaces to about a hundred models.



That would be better, bullets can be countered with a simple 500 lindens shield. An enormous wall is there and stays if no one does anything.



No, the forums were used as a tool to show everyone what happened there, they would be a weapon iof grief if there wasn0t freedom of speech here, but since everyone is free to state his opinion against or in favor of that build, it's called democracy.



No one was forced to succumb to anything, i see most of the opinions here are in favor of those builds, so actually this thread could give them even more confidence on their rights.



Since when the forums are connected to SL in a way that can force someone to do anything? Expecially when the majority (as exected after all) of the posts was in their favor?



Bad journalists, they "go tell it on the newspapers", people might decide to leave the world...



Again you have to prove that this post did any damage to them. In the case of the smokestacks the owner decided to remove them out of his free will, while in the case of the wall the owner removed it after a loooong and tiring persuasion effort and discussion in game.



And i abhor seeing people build without even the slightest hint of respect for their neightbors. Opinions.



Sorry but this dangerously sounds like stating that the opinions of people that have been here earlier have more value than the ones of people that joined later.



The fact that you don't notice is that i don't state to be better than anyone else at building or as of tastes. I simply try to consider if a build does damage to the neightbor properties. There are extreme cases in wich this happens, and i think this was the case.
You and many others think it's not. This is called democracy.

My lord, this thread is still going on? For the love of God, pleaaaaase make it stop.

Shiryu, I know you to be a wonderful person and I think your heart was in the right place - you sincerely believed this build was put up for no other reason than to force those around the build to buy the land, something that would anger me too. Those in this thread who act like that does not go on in SL or that freedom of building automatically gives one a free pass from any responsibility to not act like a jackass honestly really surprise me.

That said, you cannot divine what the person's intentions were in the building of the smokestacks or their removal, and as such, in the end the only thing that really should have been done would have been to talk to the owner (which I can't remember if you did, having read the original post 5 pages and several days back). You are no more going to sway those who disagree with you to your side than they are yours to theirs. I think at this point you are mired down in the last word syndrome. My advice is to just walk away from this thread - it's not worth damaging any reputations arguing the finer points of this topic.

Protecting our freedom to build what we want in SL is a noble thing - but then so is pushing back against bad behavior. Freedom does come with responsibility, and so often, people seem to ignore that.

Again

I hope we can work together. Otherwise, the future is going to be a horrible, dystopian place. Please consider the possibilities:

I'm happy to announce that the site of the former Power to the Peoples has been restored to a likeness of it's former glory.

Archival photographies were very few and I fear it was not feasible to restore the original build perfectly. So liberties have been taken and a new design used ; while staying in the spirit of the original.
This is still a work in progress, but the biggest part of it is done.

AWESOME!

I endorse this product and/or service.

Sorry to come in so late, but I’m a bit worried about the standards being applied by some of the posters here.

My own property is almost always for sale. It’s hard lately, but I’ve bought and sold a lot of plots. I buy them when I feel homeless, and then set them for sale after a bit. Sometimes immediately, sometimes after a month or so. I always build something. Sometimes fairly elaborate, but usually a platform or two where I can land after being shot in Jessie, or where I can have a private conversation. I gave up making “pretty” builds a while back. I prefer old warehouses and weathered wood platforms. None of these are likely to win a prize for neighborhood improvement.

That does NOT mean I build them for griefing purposes. I sure don’t build them to force the neighbors to buy. In fact, I almost never have neighbors. The last few times, I’ve had a forest of For Sale signs, and an air born boxing club.

So, should I be suspect because I too build “ugly” builds on land that is for sale? Why aren’t my tatty platform an expression of my understandings of virtual building? Why does my constant listing in the Land for Sale have anything to do with whether I really mean to express myself where I happen to live right now? Why does my 400+ prim, 50 meter tall, evergreen tree make me suspect? Fleabite gave me that tree and I always buy enough land to allow me to put it up. It doesn’t mean I’m trying to disgust the neighbors. I like to think they LOVE my huge artistic tree.

So, by the proposed standards, I deserve punishment. How should I approach all this in the future to avoid such inappropriate behavior?