Outrageously Offended

I'll take an asshat, and we'll call it even

P.S. FedEx please, leaving for Belguim Monday

Holy cow, I can't believe I read this whole damn thread...

There are some important issues to be dealt with here, of what privacy we can reasonably expect in SL, to how much of a degree we own our avatar (not the textures or the scripts or the attachments, but the avatar itself), and also how community standards and opinions will affect what people do in SL.

I think Taco should have asked permission before using the pictures. Having said that, I have to add that I feel differently about virtual "upskirt" photos than I would about RL ones. If he had taken a picture of my avatar and asked to use it, I most likely would have consented, especially given that you can't really tell who most of the avatars are in the pictures he displays.

However, I believe Taco's true intent with his "museum" is to test the boundaries of what the Lindens will allow. So, he picks a hot-button issue like upskirt photos. It's tacky, it's in poor taste, and incredibly smarmy... but it effectively gets people talking about these issues. Does that make it "art?" Maybe, by some peoples' definition. It's certainly been an effective way to get a lot of people to visit his otherwise unspectacular, plain-jane, textured-cube "museum."

Run for the hills, Taco! Take your perverted, obscene, twisted, pictures of exploited female avatars pixelized genitalia and underskirts with you!

Oh, and my deepest sympathies to the poor exploited avatars who had to endure this cheap & sick exposition of some lowlife person that had nothing better to do.

My lord, Taco, I have to give you credit - you certainly know how to make a comeback.

And some people thought I made long and drawn out drama posts..LOL!

I don't have a cause. I could not care less about this upskirt museum. Fighting for? That's laughable. I stated that one person struck me as petty and then explained why this museum would not bother me. I am not fighting for anyone or anything. SL is a somewhat amusing pastime. After my first post I was strictly answering people's questions.

That was a nice try, though.

It's called a figure of speech, dear.

People on these forums LOVE to take things literally and give no leeway to anyone for anything proverbial, figurative, or anything else other than biting sarcasm.

It's called...a joke...mister literal minded.

I think there is an issue here, but perhaps not such a desperately-pressing one that some posters feel it is.

First of all it is clearly intrusive. If your av gets repeatedly bumped, then I would think that most people would get pretty annoyed. The av might be pixels, but it does become part of you. So taking photos of this kind is rather sleazy. I have, on one occasion, turned my back on a woman fairly new to sl, who was unintentionally naked in a public area, because she felt embarrassed. She wasn't aware that I could have looked anyway, but I didn't.

However, I don't see it as some kind of virtual rape. We can, in any event, see each other from all kinds of angles, and this is normally not an issue. But it is sleazy, and it is mildly unpleasant.

I'm sure members of sl have shown their disapproval by refusing to visit the exhibit. *cough*

Does anyone really believe that if Taco genuinely thought it was acceptable to take and display these pictures that he would have done this? He didnt choose to photograph and display avatar faces or feet or noses; he chose private parts for the precise reason that it is now in controversy.

Look again at his original post:


Not only did he seek reaction to his controversial build, he counted on it. The reason Taco chose to do this is precisely because he knew it was wrong.

Taco characterized the build as a product of a sick mind so how can he or others complain when it is called sick.

I do very much agree with this Chip. This whole thread sums down to one thing for me. I don't care which side I agree with on this issue, the fact that it hurts and upsets even some people is enough to keep me from doing it.

I posted an apology earlier, but I want to restate it because it is buried in the middle of this huge thread:

I would like to state for the record that no one here in this thread has offended or hurt me. I am seriously apologizing for an issue that I never knew existed. As I just told someone else I honestly never knew so many felt this way. I always assumed that everyone viewed their avatar in the same way that I do. And of course I should know better as we know what assuming can lead to.

And don't get me wrong, I feel very strongly about my avatar being an extention of me. But I have to sometimes be hit over the head to be reminded that everyone does not think the same way I do about certain issues.

Whether I agree that this type of action is wrong or not does not matter to me. The fact that I could possibly offend, hurt, or embarrass someone by my actions will make me think twice the next time I take a risky picture. I strive to never hurt anyone if I can help it, and this is a case where I *can* control my actions.

No matter good intentions or not, I personally am glad this thread was started. Or else I might not have learned the lesson that I did. So again I apologize!

contreversial or wrong?
they are not interchangeable, right?


there is a difference here. based on the physics engine or whatever doohickey, PvP abuse prevents us from navigating through this informational space freely. what makes this space truly interactive is that others can control, through direct bumping or through scripted objects, affect our game play.

i do not argue that many players do not or should not invest themselves into these pixel-dolls, but that is not to say we all do or should. my experience is that the avatar is a part of me or you and two days away from SL will pretty much clear up any confusion anyone has.

i don't find what he did sleazy or wrong. he has exposed the divergence of meaning that exists in SL and challenged our complacency about what we see on the screen.

true, but he should ask the ladies whose avatar persona he is using to see do they think its ok or not

They are not interchangeable. Nor are they mutually exclusive as the whole "but it's art" defense tries to suggest.

Pendari,

<<Question. Which is it that people are objecting to. The taking of the pictures or the sharing of them without permission? I mean, would it bother you if someone had a whole collection of these in their inventory but never shared them with others? Or is even the snapshot taking in the first place bad too?>>

Hugs! To me the issue is nothing to do with taking the photographs; it is with putting them on public display. The whole point of upskirt voyeurism is that some men gain a feeling of power from surreptitiously photographing the genital area of women, and others enjoy seeing photographs of this type displayed publicly. If the photographs are kept in a private collection, and the women concerned are anonymous and never know about it, I honestly don't see the harm.

I did sit through (much of) the display, and I noticed that some of the pictures were taken at public events from fairly normal camera angles. There was no intrusion, and I don't see how anybody could complain about someone photographing what was clearly on public display anyway. Other photographs were clearly taken showing views that perhaps the individual would not like to be seen.

To me, the sleaze comes from the display of a rather tacky perversion. If taco wants to wank over pictures like this in privacy, he is welcome. But putting them on public display, particularly when avs are identifiable, that is rather sleazy IMV.

So far as you are concerned, Pendari, you are known to be a lovely person without a malicious bone in your body. You have said that you would only take the pictures and show them to individual people if you felt that the people concerned wouldn't object. I am sure you are right, and I am sure you would err on the side of caution. Nobody in this thread has suggested that you shouldn't take the pictures, not that you shouldn't show them to friends; I can't imagine you ever doing anything to cause other people distress.

Don't distress yourself about the issue, please. Carry on as you have always done. If ever you catch me in flagrante delicto, you are welcome to take as many pictures as you like (provided the goat and the rancid yak giblets are not involved) and show them to whom you like. The reason for this is that I know you and I trust you, like all those who have come in contact with you.

Hugs,
Selador

Pen, I agree with pretty much everything Sel just said You can take risque pictures of me any time, hehe. I'm not a person that feels like my avatar is a corporeal extension of my real life self, but I do see plenty of people who come to my store to try on skins that aren't comfortable shedding their clothing in front of strangers. I once found a girl in my cave with a privacy screen set up so she could try some things on with minimal risk of being walked in on. I found it amusing and rather sweet. Clearly there are people who feel the same sense of shyness about their SL bodies as they do about their real ones. Since I'm not one of them, I give you permission to take as many compromising pics of my avatar as you like

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

DRAHMA

Pen - you said it for me better than I could say it for myself. As you say, I'm glad the thread was started or I would still be unaware of how people felt. I apologize for any insensetivity on my behalf.

Rose

This is undeniably tacky. Rememberbing from my psychlogy degree i would have to say that this person is either 14/15 years of age or is frustrated sexually in rl - ie not getting it. Which is it Taco?

Alexa

Well I can vouch that Taco is neither 14/15 yrs of age nor is he frustrated sexually IRL... lol Cracks me up what some ppl come up with. O NoS - This is serious business c'mon it was done in humor not insults.

Anyways, you know I normally stay off the boards due to all the drama on them, but I think a lot of you are forgetting this is PIXELS. This is not your IRL upskirt picture. Hell I don't even remember half the females in this game bitching on the boards about all the hentai, porn or sexual content in this game. Just like with those places, if you dislike them.. stay away from the place. Hence just like IRL if you don't like someone/something stay away from it. Man, don't sweat the small stuff. I know for a fact, that there is at least one of my photos in the slide show, but you know what.. its not real. Sure I'm real, but my av isn't real its pixels. Actually I thought it was pretty kewl.. I seen some awesome panties!! I wanna know where to buy them at!

Freudian slip?

ok if its a mature sim then the lindens wont realy care. If it shows the names of the pepole that he got the shoots of then lindens can do somthing.

Statment said and done Have a nice day!

Hahahaha!!!!!

Welp, I gave serious thought to bringing down the Musuem [sic] tonight. I am not going to.

I thought to myself and discussed with several RL and SL friends the reasons for bringing it down, or keeping it up, and it all boiled down to these:

*bring it down*
- People believe that their digital vaginas are private property
- I'm making RL morons sad and angry
- I've proven my point already
- I'll be considered 'that porn guy'
- I'm doing it for attention, dwell, and money

BTW, the keeping morons from being sad and angry weighed heavily, seriously. If you think the color blue is scary and makes you cry, i'd be a dick to show you the color blue. Life will, however.

*keep it up*
- I've had no abuse calls from Lindens, despite the threats
- I've received more "keep it up dude' responses in game than "you are a dick" responses
- The people whom i've responded to IM about morality run, and are 'offended' that i tried to talk to them
- Your sense of "right" is not necessarily my sense of "right" *
- I'm frankly pissed at the reaction to something so stupid*
- you don't have the "right" to not be offended *

*i understand the concept of 'in my opinion' versus "my opinion is RIGHT!"

I've now decided to expand the museum to include elbows, glares, and hips....all without permission.

I learned a LOT from this exhibit, and i can't thank you enough for it. please tell me if i missed a lesson, what i learned was:

-consent seems to be a buzzword that means "everything in SL must be approved by a general opinion (as long as it's mine)"

-a lot of people use the 'she's asking to be raped?" argument

- mob mentality rules on SL, just like RL

- freedom and independence are secondary to "as long as it's cool"

- namecalling is r0x0r if it's really a good cause

- It's ok, when you don't like something, to drop the worst thing you can think of into the mix (such as pedophelia)

- "Because I wouldn't do it, it should be illegal"

- Neg rating is cool! You don't like my behavior and building, but my appearence? And then when I neg rate you i'm a demon?


To make a long story over, here's what I learned most of all. A great majority of you are reactionaries, in my (illegal?) opinion. You feel that a standard is acceptable in SL because you've accepted it, and to deviate from that is a breech of ethics that must be destroyed. I know a lot of you feel passionately that i'm a "creep", you must trust me that this feeling is mutual. I made the exhibit, and the post here, on a whim. You've shown me how petty, ugly, and furiously disapointing you can be.


Yours,

Taco Rubio


PS. I would also like to thank those of you who thought. It's an uphill battle here, and takes a bit of guts to support an unupoular opinion. I'd like to extend the same love to those who disagree with me, but backed it up with a bit of logic. Much of life is opinions, and those who argued against my musuem with logic i respect a LOT more than those who called me 'creep' but couldn't define why.

I think what Taco did was awesome. Especially since it got such a rise. Without faces these shots are pretty harmless and anonymous... To see everyone scream and rant just reminds me how petty people can be.