"We didn't tell you to come to America on holiday."
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Arsenic Soyinka
Registered User
Join date: 1 Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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08-21-2006 20:29
From: Billybob Goodliffe
just to summarize what you've said so far
"I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with"
please think about what you say before you type it, ok?
Billybob Goodliffe just exactly where did i say: "I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with" why are you attributing QUOTES to me, that you claim i made, when in fact i didnt make them at all ... if you are going to Quote me, then use the QUOTE BUTTON SO PLEASE SHOW EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM the post where i made that quote What is NOW at issue, is that you have mis-quoted me, AND out of context, and that constitutes a mis-representation of my statements. I hold that your answer to my post is total misrepresentation of what i said. what you erroneously stated i said, substantially changed the meaning and intent of my remarks. Furthur you are attemptiong to distort my meanings for you own litany of insults and mis-representations of my remarks not only have YOU mis-quoted me, YOUR ARE ALSO asserting that i made statements, which in fact i did NOT make 1. i did NOT say: "I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with" 2. i did not say soccer should be banned 3. i did not indicate ANY of YOUR OTHER ASSUMPTIONS OR CONCLUSIONS 4. in addition, you have the bad manners and childish behavior to label me as Hitler At best, you are disingenuous. At worst, you deliberately mis-represent the words of others, as well as insulting them, without provocation I find that disturbing, particularly in light of the demeanor of a measured suggestion, based upon the conduct of other World Establishments I think you misunderstand the concept of taking things out of context, mis-quoting, and thereby misrepresenting another's words. Mis-quoting and mis-representing other peoples words, is a cheap and shabby tactic by you, to undermine and malign anothers' remarks, in order for you to attempt to give yours more credence. Your reliance on distortion, mis-quoting and insults, actually cheapens your arguments and renders all your conclusions suspect and lacking in any credibility whatsoever. As far as i am concerned any furthur discussion with you has reached an impass I will say that I consider your use and tactics of distoring my remarks and relying on insults, to be in violation of generally accepted intellectual standards, and that, in this discussion, you have violated those intellectual standards by your misuse, lies and mis-representation of my written material. As a result, I consider your remarks unworthy of any serious consideration on this, or any other topic in the Forums I dont doubt there will be others posting here, who will post in support of your mis-quoting and distorting another's remarks ... if not that, then in finding another way to do so. If that does occur, it only furthur demonstrates to the nature and character of these Forums ... just as you have done by your mis-representations. obviously your calculated distortions, mis-representastions and insults, were all well thought out before YOU TYPED THEM notwithstanding Political-Religionists who also resort distortion and mis-information, you demonstrate the hallmark to what i was adressing ... if you have any sense of your malice and any self-respect, you'll simply ban yourself `·.¸·:·Arsenic . |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-21-2006 20:37
From: Arsenic Soyinka Billybob Goodliffe
just exactly where did i say:
"I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with" I don't know about all religions, but you advocated the banning of at least three of them and suggested their adherents should be sent to reeducation camps. From: someone 2. i did not say soccer should be banned Too bad, I'd agree with you there. We simply must do something about those football hooligans! From: someone I find that disturbing, particularly in light of the demeanor
of a measured suggestion, based upon the conduct of other
World Establishments World Establishments?  From: someone if you have any sense of your malice and any self-respect, you'll simply ban yourself Ban himself from what, exactly? I don't think BB did what you said. You came on with the banning of religions, the reeducation, the burning of books and what not. I quoted where you said that a few posts up.
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Broadly offensive.
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-21-2006 20:42
From: Arsenic Soyinka Billybob Goodliffe
just exactly where did i say:
"I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with"
why are you attributing QUOTES to me, that you claim i made,
when in fact i didnt make them at all ...
if you are going to Quote me, then use the QUOTE BUTTON
SO PLEASE SHOW EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM the post where i made that quote
What is NOW at issue, is that you have mis-quoted me, AND out of context,
and that constitutes a mis-representation of my statements.
I hold that your answer to my post is total misrepresentation of what i said.
what you erroneously stated i said, substantially changed the meaning
and intent of my remarks.
Furthur you are attemptiong to distort my meanings for you own litany
of insults and mis-representations of my remarks
not only have YOU mis-quoted me, YOUR ARE ALSO asserting
that i made statements, which in fact i did NOT make
1. i did NOT say: "I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with"
2. i did not say soccer should be banned
3. i did not indicate ANY of YOUR OTHER ASSUMPTIONS OR CONCLUSIONS
4. in addition, you have the bad manners and childish behavior to label me as Hitler
At best, you are disingenuous.
At worst, you deliberately mis-represent the words of others,
as well as insulting them, without provocation
I find that disturbing, particularly in light of the demeanor
of a measured suggestion, based upon the conduct of other
World Establishments
I think you misunderstand the concept of taking things
out of context, mis-quoting, and thereby misrepresenting another's words.
Mis-quoting and mis-representing other peoples words,
is a cheap and shabby tactic by you, to undermine and malign
anothers' remarks, in order for you to attempt to give yours more credence.
Your reliance on distortion, mis-quoting and insults,
actually cheapens your arguments and renders all your
conclusions suspect and lacking in any credibility whatsoever.
As far as i am concerned any furthur discussion with you
has reached an impass
I will say that I consider your use and tactics of
distoring my remarks and relying on insults,
to be in violation of generally accepted intellectual standards,
and that, in this discussion, you have violated those intellectual
standards by your misuse, lies and mis-representation of my written material.
As a result, I consider your remarks unworthy of any
serious consideration on this, or any other topic in the Forums
I dont doubt there will be others posting here,
who will post in support of your mis-quoting and
distorting another's remarks ...
if not that, then in finding another way to do so.
If that does occur, it only furthur demonstrates
to the nature and character of these Forums ...
just as you have done by your mis-representations.
obviously your calculated distortions, mis-representastions
and insults, were all well thought out before YOU TYPED THEM
notwithstanding Political-Religionists who also resort distortion and mis-information,
you demonstrate the hallmark to what i was adressing ...
if you have any sense of your malice and any self-respect, you'll simply ban yourself
`·.¸·:·Arsenic
. hmm since I summarized what you said, and it made you look foolish you are going to "try" and discredit me? good luck. From: Arsenic Soyinka ... but no one will admit that ...
the following should be passed by a UN Resolution and
enforced by a strong UN Military Force:
ban all religious holy wars, like for the last 5000 years ...
then ban the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Revelations,
and the Koran too
strip search everyone, and conviscate their Bibles, Crucifixes, and their Holy Beads
then ban all religion from television, satellite communications and the internet ...
finally send everyone for deprogramming who has been brainwashed
by the concept of heaven, the resurrection, and raping 7 virgins
somewhere along the line ...
dont forget to impeach the religious extremeist President Bush,
who has turned America into a Fascistic Religious State like Iran and Israel,
and who also knows how to start Holy Wars, but doesnt know how to end them
that should help clear things up ...
and one more thing ... ban long purple robes, black hats and beards
‡ arsenic ‡ theres your post about religions doing nothing but starting wars From: Arsenic Soyinka Extremist Religious-Political Philosophies of opression, persecution and tyranny do not ensure justice and peace, nor do they value the concept of "difference of opinon" ... because the essence of their philosophies is to trample differing opinions, individual thought and freedom, as well as human life. Christianity, Juadism and Islam promote their agendas under the guise of spiritual harmony and enlightenment(?), using brainwashing, cluster bombs, bombing of innocent civilians, machetes, and concentration camp-like settlements. it is to their "differences of opinion", (as you call it, as mild as a sleep sedative), that the daily deaths of children occur world wide. i do not support their right to their EXTREMIST differences of opinion with their use of wholesale terror, war mongering and murder. personally, i support anarchy and banishment against those kinds of ideologies and tyrannies, resulting in their enforcing their "difference of opinion" through damnation, terror and slaughter. they dont care about anyone's opinion, except those of their Loyalties and the Laws of their own Mythical Gods ... HALLELUJAH, praise the Lord their opression and tyranny against free thought and individual rights, (which they sneer at as being "humanism or infidel"  , are an ideological threat to freedom, human life and, of any differing opinions that is how i account for it. *´¨`·.¸¸.*Arsenic . there's your "cause of humanities problem" now you want to rethink your previous post? or do you want to continue to look stupid? oh and soccer has caused wars, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soccer_Waryou say you support anarchy, funny you seem to hold a grudge against those with opposing views to you, yet anarchy means abscence of laws and is pure freedom, so those views would be allowed under your chosen lack of government. I mispoke earlier your not like Hitler, more like 
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If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party! From: Corvus Drake I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag.  Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe
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Arsenic Soyinka
Registered User
Join date: 1 Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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08-21-2006 20:58
thank you for reposting my comments as a grouping for furthur clarity ... it may give some people pause to wonder why you are attacking them From: Billybob Goodliffe ... do you want to continue to look stupid? «´A` ¸.·´¨R (_¸.·´ ¸.S (_¸.·´ `·.¸¸E¸¸N´`I ·.¸C¸¸.» . |
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Sally Rosebud
the girl next door
Join date: 3 May 2005
Posts: 2,505
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08-21-2006 21:01
OMG I leave for 3 days and you lot are still going on about this?
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"I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know?"
~Ernest Hemingway
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-21-2006 21:02
From: Arsenic Soyinka thank you for reposting my comments as a grouping for furthur clarity ... it may give some people pause to wonder why you are attacking them «´A` ¸.·´¨R (_¸.·´ ¸.S (_¸.·´ `·.¸¸E¸¸N´`I ·.¸C¸¸.» . great response 
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If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party! From: Corvus Drake I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-21-2006 21:07
From: Arsenic Soyinka Billybob Goodliffe
just exactly where did i say:
"I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with"
why are you attributing QUOTES to me, that you claim i made,
when in fact i didnt make them at all ...
if you are going to Quote me, then use the QUOTE BUTTON
SO PLEASE SHOW EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM the post where i made that quote Pretty much back where you said religions should be done away with, the symbols confiscated, and the followers brainwashed to forget the religion. You know, the part that we've quoted back to you a half dozen times now. From: Arsenic Soyinka 1. i did NOT say: "I think religions cause all of man's problems and should be done away with" You absolutely did say the second half of that. From: Arsenic Soyinka At best, you are disingenuous.
At worst, you deliberately mis-represent the words of others,
as well as insulting them, without provocation
I find that disturbing, particularly in light of the demeanor
of a measured suggestion, based upon the conduct of other
World Establishments
I think you misunderstand the concept of taking things
out of context, mis-quoting, and thereby misrepresenting another's words.
Mis-quoting and mis-representing other peoples words,
is a cheap and shabby tactic by you, to undermine and malign
anothers' remarks, in order for you to attempt to give yours more credence.
Your reliance on distortion, mis-quoting and insults,
actually cheapens your arguments and renders all your
conclusions suspect and lacking in any credibility whatsoever.
As far as i am concerned any furthur discussion with you
has reached an impass
I will say that I consider your use and tactics of
distoring my remarks and relying on insults,
to be in violation of generally accepted intellectual standards,
and that, in this discussion, you have violated those intellectual
standards by your misuse, lies and mis-representation of my written material.
As a result, I consider your remarks unworthy of any
serious consideration on this, or any other topic in the Forums
I dont doubt there will be others posting here,
who will post in support of your mis-quoting and
distorting another's remarks ...
if not that, then in finding another way to do so.
If that does occur, it only furthur demonstrates
to the nature and character of these Forums ...
just as you have done by your mis-representations.
obviously your calculated distortions, mis-representastions
and insults, were all well thought out before YOU TYPED THEM
notwithstanding Political-Religionists who also resort distortion and mis-information,
you demonstrate the hallmark to what i was adressing ...
if you have any sense of your malice and any self-respect, you'll simply ban yourself
`·.¸·:·Arsenic
. And as for what you think of his etiqute, debate tactics, whatever... You just spent nearly two pages decrying how outraged you are over what he said, and never once actually debated any honest point he made, or tried to expand upon or refute any of your statements in question. With that in mind... 
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Arsenic Soyinka
Registered User
Join date: 1 Dec 2005
Posts: 168
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08-21-2006 21:16
From: Reitsuki Kojima "... (religions) should be done away with"
You absolutely did say the second half of that. even your comprehension and reading skills are lacking, bordering on fantasy ... heh tsk-tsk Arsenic `·.¸·: . |
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Lorelei Patel
was here
Join date: 22 Feb 2004
Posts: 1,940
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08-21-2006 21:52
From: Arsenic Soyinka even your comprehension and reading skills are lacking,
bordering on fantasy ... heh
tsk-tsk
Arsenic `·.¸·:
. Did you ever think that if everyone has trouble understanding you, that the problem might actually be you?
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Broadly offensive.
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-21-2006 22:18
From: Billybob Goodliffe and removing people's opinions is just as bad. Which is worse... forcing people to conform to a singular opinion, (also known as removing peoples opinions) one which is known to be used as a tool for the oppression of millions, or removing the singular opinion? Take your choice... From: someone Hitler tried to remove the opinions of millions, almost succeeding at it. Hitler tried to enforce a singular opinion, which is just what the "Big 3" religions do... Conform to the singular opinion, or suffer the punishment. I feel you didn't think through this argument... From: someone You mention enforcing opinions is wrong? Hitler enforced opinions... Yes, it is wrong to enforce opinions, depending on WHAT the opinions are. If the opinion is that anyone who doesn't believe in a particular "flavour" of supreme being cannot be trusted/needs to be deported/deserves to be treated like a criminal, then that opinion really should not be enforced. Do you think it should? From: someone You do realize that laws are nothing more than majority opinions right? think about that for a few minutes I do believe that the law stating that it's a crime to go out in public after eating some raw onion isn't, and wasn't, a majority opinion... I know that the law stating that Female sales assistants in Aquariums in Liverpool, UK are legally allowed to be topless at work wasn't and isn't a majority opinion... I know that the majority opinion in the US is that Atheists are the least trustworthy group of people and shouldn't be allowed into positions of power. But that one doesn't seem to be a law... in fact, it's specifically blocked from being a law thanks to the Constitution. Majority opinions == Laws? Not a chance... A lot of laws are the result of Minority opinions... yes, the opinions of a vocal minority... being forced upon the majority. It's amazing how many of those laws get repealed, once it's shown just how they are abused... From: someone now that being said I shout it right back at you, even louder  If your opinion is that wanting to stop people forcing hate-filled and abusive opinions on others is the same as what Hitler did, then you really need to take a closer look at your opinion... |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-22-2006 03:42
From: Tiger Zobel Which is worse... forcing people to conform to a singular opinion, (also known as removing peoples opinions) one which is known to be used as a tool for the oppression of millions, or removing the singular opinion? so, by your way of thinking converting everyone to your opinion is ok. But making everyone convert to my opinion is tyranny. ok I understand now From: Tiger Zobel Take your choice...Hitler tried to enforce a singular opinion, which is just what the "Big 3" religions do... Conform to the singular opinion, or suffer the punishment.
I feel you didn't think through this argument...Hitler enforced opinions... Yes, it is wrong to enforce opinions, depending on WHAT the opinions are. so selective enforcement is ok. so if you don't agree with someone they should be made to follow your opinion, right From: Tiger Zobel If the opinion is that anyone who doesn't believe in a particular "flavour" of supreme being cannot be trusted/needs to be deported/deserves to be treated like a criminal, then that opinion really should not be enforced. Do you think it should?I do believe that the law stating that it's a crime to go out in public after eating some raw onion isn't, and wasn't, a majority opinion...
I know that the law stating that Female sales assistants in Aquariums in Liverpool, UK are legally allowed to be topless at work wasn't and isn't a majority opinion...
I know that the majority opinion in the US is that Atheists are the least trustworthy group of people and shouldn't be allowed into positions of power. But that one doesn't seem to be a law... in fact, it's specifically blocked from being a law thanks to the Constitution.
Majority opinions == Laws? Not a chance...
A lot of laws are the result of Minority opinions... yes, the opinions of a vocal minority... being forced upon the majority. It's amazing how many of those laws get repealed, once it's shown just how they are abused...
If your opinion is that wanting to stop people forcing hate-filled and abusive opinions on others is the same as what Hitler did, then you really need to take a closer look at your opinion... it takes a majority to pass laws remember, now the constitution and the rights it guarentees are nothing more than widely shared opinions. now converting everyone to follow your belief system like the OP wants because all the others are wrong and bad is the decree of a bigot and since there was no bigger bigot than Hitler, I say it again 
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If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party! From: Corvus Drake I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-22-2006 05:04
From: Tiger Zobel Which is worse... forcing people to conform to a singular opinion, (also known as removing peoples opinions) one which is known to be used as a tool for the oppression of millions, or removing the singular opinion? You /might/, and I stress /might/, have a point if those were the only two options. Which they aren't. From: Tiger Zobel Take your choice...Hitler tried to enforce a singular opinion, which is just what the "Big 3" religions do... Conform to the singular opinion, or suffer the punishment. Actually, the religions do nothing. People do, a certain subset of the people who do follow some of the religions, but that does not mean that the religions themselves do anything, nor do the majority of their adherants. Again, icecream causes heatstroke.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-22-2006 05:09
From: Arsenic Soyinka even your comprehension and reading skills are lacking,
bordering on fantasy ... heh
tsk-tsk
Arsenic `·.¸·:
. Which part of this does not equate to "do away with"? From: Arsenic Soyinka then ban the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Revelations,
and the Koran too
strip search everyone, and conviscate their Bibles, Crucifixes, and their Holy Beads
then ban all religion from television, satellite communications and the internet ...
finally send everyone for deprogramming who has been brainwashed
by the concept of heaven, the resurrection, and raping 7 virgins Apparently you think my reading skills are so lacking that I'm not able to read between the (very narrow, leaving plenty of room to see between them) lines.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-22-2006 05:26
From: Billybob Goodliffe so, by your way of thinking converting everyone to your opinion is ok. But making everyone convert to my opinion is tyranny. ok I understand now No... by my way of thinking, forcing ANYONE to convert to an opinion is tyranny. Why do I get the idea you're not reading what I post? From: someone so selective enforcement is ok. so if you don't agree with someone they should be made to follow your opinion, right WRONG! If an opinion is used to oppress/abuse people, then that opinion should NOT ever be enforced. Further, forcing someone to convert to an opinion is tyranny... You really are not reading what I post, are you? From: someone it takes a majority to pass laws remember, now the constitution and the rights it guarentees are nothing more than widely shared opinions. Majority of who? Is it the majority of the population? Does the entire population vote on new laws? No... laws are thought up, debated on, mulled over and passed by an amazingly small fraction of the population. If that is your idea of a majority, you need to work on your understanding of simple maths. Not a single law, not the Constitution, have ever been passed by the majority... they have always been forced on people by a fractional minority. Once more... if those laws are used to oppress or abuse people, they are usually very quickly repealed thanks to the opinion of the majority... but that's the only time the majority opinion ever gets to decide on the laws. From: someone now converting everyone to follow your belief system like the OP wants because all the others are wrong and bad is the decree of a bigot and since there was no bigger bigot than Hitler, I say it again You want to see something that is worse that Hitler? You want to see a symbol of something that wishes to convert everyone to one belief system? Something that declares all others are wrong and bad? Something that by your own claim is the decree of a Bigot? Very well...  |
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-22-2006 05:41
From: Reitsuki Kojima You /might/, and I stress /might/, have a point if those were the only two options. Which they aren't. Yep... and we were wrong to fight against the Nazis... There are times when the only options are to roll over and let the singular opinion ride roughshod over everyone, or to fight back and remove that opinion. From: someone Actually, the religions do nothing. People do, a certain subset of the people who do follow some of the religions, but that does not mean that the religions themselves do anything, nor do the majority of their adherants. Again, icecream causes heatstroke. The "Big 3" religions state very clearly that if you do not convert to them, if you do not agree to their singular opinion, you will be punished for all eternity... That's straight from the various holy books... not from a certain subset of followers. All that subset does is agree with more of the religion then the majority does. |
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-22-2006 05:43
From: Tiger Zobel No... by my way of thinking, forcing ANYONE to convert to an opinion is tyranny. yet you are defending the views that state just that From: Tiger Zobel Why do I get the idea you're not reading what I post?WRONG! If an opinion is used to oppress/abuse people, then that opinion should NOT ever be enforced.
Further, forcing someone to convert to an opinion is tyranny...You really are not reading what I post, are you? who is forcing you to do anything? hmm? yet you are defending the viewpoint that advocates conformity, so who isn't reading? From: Tiger Zobel Majority of who? Is it the majority of the population? Does the entire population vote on new laws?
No... laws are thought up, debated on, mulled over and passed by an amazingly small fraction of the population. If that is your idea of a majority, you need to work on your understanding of simple maths. it is called a representative democracy for a reason, now who elects those people? thats right, the majority (don't bring up the 2000 presidential election) From: Tiger Zobel Not a single law, not the Constitution, have ever been passed by the majority... they have always been forced on people by a fractional minority. Once more... if those laws are used to oppress or abuse people, they are usually very quickly repealed thanks to the opinion of the majority... but that's the only time the majority opinion ever gets to decide on the laws. so, since you said earlier that people shouldn't force their opinion on people, we should destroy the Constitution because its an opinion forced on people. From: Tiger Zobel You want to see something that is worse that Hitler? You want to see a symbol of something that wishes to convert everyone to one belief system? Something that declares all others are wrong and bad? Something that by your own claim is the decree of a Bigot? and is this supposed to shock me? I already said I don't follow the Bible, but here's what I think your doing 
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If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party! From: Corvus Drake I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe
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Billybob Goodliffe
NINJA WIZARDS!
Join date: 22 Dec 2005
Posts: 4,036
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08-22-2006 05:48
From: Tiger Zobel Yep... and we were wrong to fight against the Nazis... There are times when the only options are to roll over and let the singular opinion ride roughshod over everyone, or to fight back and remove that opinion. The "Big 3" religions state very clearly that if you do not convert to them, if you do not agree to their singular opinion, you will be punished for all eternity... That's straight from the various holy books... not from a certain subset of followers. All that subset does is agree with more of the religion then the majority does. they also say to "turn the other cheek" and to be passive and peaceful, but I guess you only see what your looking for another note, the "big 3" includes atheism since it is the 3rd largest group http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html
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If life gives you lemons, you should make lemonade and try and find someone who's life has given them vodka and have a party! From: Corvus Drake I asked God directly, and he says you're a douchebag. Commander of the Militant Wing of the Salvation Army http://e-pec.info/forum/blog/billybob_goodliffe
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-22-2006 06:39
From: Tiger Zobel Yep... and we were wrong to fight against the Nazis... There are times when the only options are to roll over and let the singular opinion ride roughshod over everyone, or to fight back and remove that opinion. Again, were those the only two options. Since those aren't the only two options, the point in moot. From: Tiger Zobel The "Big 3" religions state very clearly that if you do not convert to them, if you do not agree to their singular opinion, you will be punished for all eternity...
That's straight from the various holy books... not from a certain subset of followers. All that subset does is agree with more of the religion then the majority does. What a religion believes happens in the afterlife is irrelivent, since it has no bearing on the mortal world.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-22-2006 09:31
From: Billybob Goodliffe they also say to "turn the other cheek" and to be passive and peaceful, but I guess you only see what your looking for Really? Be passive and peaceful only applies to those who agree with the opinion... We're talking about what happens to those who DON'T agree... so kindly avoid pulling in the "ah yes, but those who agree believe this too" red herring. What does the believers being passive and peaceful have to do with what the Religion itself insists will happen to those who DON'T agree? Answer: sweet nothing. Once more... since one of the Primary tenets of the "Big 3" religions is that non-believers will be tortured for eternity, (and in some cases brutally killed beforehand) and that their beliefs are wrong, bad and need to be wiped off the face of the planet, just how is that any different to what Arsenic said should be done? Oh yeah... Arsenic didn't say that those who didn't agree should be tortured until the end of time... Atheism is a religion like Baldness is a hair colour... Meanwhile, having gone to the link you kindly supplied we find this for the 3rd largest group... From: someone Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: This is a highly disparate group and not a single religion. Although atheists are a small subset of this grouping, this category is not synonymous with atheism. People who specify atheism as their religious preference actually make up less than one-half of one percent of the population in many countries where much large numbers claim no religious preference, such as the United States (13.2% nonreligious according to ARIS study of 2001) and Australia (15% nonreligious). Not exactly what you claimed, is it? |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-22-2006 09:47
From: Tiger Zobel Oh yeah... Arsenic didn't say that those who didn't agree should be tortured until the end of time... Neither does Christianity.
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I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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08-22-2006 09:55
From: Reitsuki Kojima Neither does Christianity. You're right. Christianity says they'll be tortured beyond the end of time.
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-22-2006 09:55
From: Billybob Goodliffe yet you are defending the views that state just that On the contrary... I'm just pointing out that those views happen to be the same as those held by certain majority groups and thus should also be compared to Hitler. From: someone who is forcing you to do anything? hmm? yet you are defending the viewpoint that advocates conformity, so who isn't reading? Well... you certainly aren't... since you still haven't spotted that I'm not defending that viewpoint. For some reason you believe that I am, and are attacking me for that, while all I am doing is showing you that your assertion that said viewpoint can be equated to Hitler is hypocritical. (and letting you rack up a whole slew of fallacies while you're at it) From: someone it is called a representative democracy for a reason, now who elects those people? thats right, the majority (don't bring up the 2000 presidential election) Ahh... so it's not truely a majority opinion then? Remember, no 2 opinions are the same... the person you elect to pass laws for you won't have the exact same opinion that you do. Or are you saying they do? Could it be that you believe the elected representatives have no opinions of their own and will only have the opinions of those who voted for them? Nope... still not a majority opinion. From: someone so, since you said earlier that people shouldn't force their opinion on people, we should destroy the Constitution because its an opinion forced on people. If that is what you believe I mean, then do so... I'll just stick with the same old "If an opinion is used to oppress/abuse people, then that opinion should NOT ever be enforced." (told you that you weren't reading what I post...) Since the Costitution is subject to amendment, since it HAS been amended to stop oppression and abuse... I think you'll find that it's not the same as what I am against. Claims that it is just happen to be a dreadful mis-characterisation of my stance and little more than a cheap and shoddy strawman. From: someone and is this supposed to shock me? I already said I don't follow the Bible, but here's what I think your doing No... it's not supposed to shock you. It's supposed to make you realise that Christianity (along with Islam and, in a lesser way, Judism) has been doing exactly what Hitler did... only it's been doing it for hundreds of years. Just because it hasn't been as overt as Hitler was, doesn't make it any less evil... if anything, it makes it worse. Especially when it claims to be all about peace and love. Now, this time... rather than interpreting what I said and altering it into something different, try just reading it. Maybe then you'd understand what I'm saying... |
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Tiger Zobel
hoarder
Join date: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 391
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08-22-2006 10:01
From: Reitsuki Kojima What a religion believes happens in the afterlife is irrelivent, since it has no bearing on the mortal world. On the contrary... when that belief is used to convince people to force their beliefs on others to "save" them from that fate, it has one heck of a bearing on the mortal world. Or when someone is convinced that it's true and that killing someone now to stop them from sinning in the future is a good thing to do, that belief is far from irrelevent... What a religion believes is very relevent, since it influences it's followers to act on those beliefs. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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08-22-2006 10:03
From: Corvus Drake You're right. Christianity says they'll be tortured beyond the end of time. You're close, but still missing the point of what I said.
_____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Corvus Drake
Bedroom Spelunker
Join date: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 1,456
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08-22-2006 10:06
From: Reitsuki Kojima You're close, but still missing the point of what I said. You were right about the afterlife. It has no bearing on the mortal world. People on the mortal plane who intend to send people to that afterlife, or "save" them from it, now that affects the mortal world.
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I started getting banned from Gorean sims, so now I hang out in a tent called "Fort Awesome".
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