Running to Mommy

ok, I was getting some coffee. So what's this thread about?

I am not sure where you're getting this "elitist" stuff from, I didn't use the term. Oh my word! That could be a strawman Chance!

BINGO! This is at the core of what I am saying. All too often, they are the basis for entire argumentative rebuttals from die Wunder Zwillinge.


Quoting it like its a bible passage? Huh?

Ahh! Do you mean like when others quote Greek philosophers, and college instructors or professors as if what they were taught about philosophy, debate, and semantics were bible passages? Do they really deserve jurisdiction over our thoughts?

I do use the fallacies myself, from time to time, sparingly however. I view them in a similar fashion to the way I view using cuss words - the more you throw them around, the less power they have, and the less seriously the invoker may be taken.

I am simply pointing to the overuse of the fallacies that seems to accompany the arguments of the back-slapping, high-fiveing Dynamik Duo, especially when said invocations of ad hominem are preceded by, or followed up with one or more of their own ad hominems.

Now, one could follow this up and say that I am guilty of the Tu Quoque fallacy here, and might be correct, if the fallacies themselves are to be taken as bible passages. Let's remember, shall we, that the fallacies were conceived of and labeled by fallible human minds, and thusly cannot be the end-all-be-all rules of debate.

That doesn't mean that they may not be incorrect when calling someone a name, and the fact that they cry out, "ad hominem" themselves from time to time, doesn't make them less correct, if they are correct. However, when someone assumes someone else's level of education or intelligence, and then attacks them from that angle, how correct can they actually be? In my opinion, not very, unless they have RL knowledge of the person they are attacking (even then, it's still ad hominem), and I am going to hazard a guess that they likely don't.

Then, we have to look at building a case for Tu Quoque whose foundation is a fallacy itself. In this case, ad hominem. Tu Quoque simply points out that because person A is accusing person B of "something", and person A has done that same "something" before, that does not render person A's current statement as false. Being that ad hominem is a fallacy itself, it's pretty lame to try and build a Tu Quoque defense upon it. I am not saying anyone has, except for maybe you Chance, in your statement to me above, in which you state that I am guilty of fallacy myself. In any case, I wouldn't be surprised to see Ulrika trot out Tu Quoque in this situation, not at all.

So, in this instance, Tu Quoque doesn't fit very well, if at all, especially when the ad hominem claims put forth are not provable by the parties making the allegations.

In the end, it's still contradictory behavior, and all the invocation of fallacies isn't going to change that, not for me anyway. After all, isn't that what these forums are about? Unyielding, unwavering, often caustic personal convictions belched forth on a minute by minute basis, 24/7/365?

Fair enough. I didn't realize she was leaving as a citizen as well, and for the life of me, I don't understand that decision, which is probably why it got through my radar.

I do remember her "stepping down" as a leader of the project right about the time you, Shadow, myself and others were in the midst of that thread about N-berg PR.

Yes. That was at the time that our Consitution was ready enough to be implemented, and so the Government branches were able to start up thus no longer needing a "project" or "group" leader.

Well, to be fair, I must say I was a bit confused at that time, because Ulrika had vociferously objected to being called leader of the projekt, yet then "stepped down" as leader a few weeks later. So I suppose that would make me confused yet again.

Beat dead horses much? Ulrika is leaving Neualtenburg. I wish she wasn't, but then I imagine anything that causes either Ulrika or myself to experience pain has you doing cartwheels. So enjoy.

She was mostly an "organizer" not so much a leader. But anyone in SL that is in a group knows that the group has to have a person designated "leader". She publicly "stepped" down because people that had nothing to do with the project were confused and arguing in the forums about Neualt this and that.. and the time had come anyway when the group no longer needed an organizer because our government was ready. She never *really* "stepped down" though in the sense that some would think, just stepped to the side into her role like the rest of us as was planned from the beginning.

There are pages and pages of very detailed information on Neualtenburg. Anyone who wanted to take the time to really learn about our project and how it works could.

Most AW's do. (shrug)

I take no pleasure in other people's pain. Please stop projekting.

For the record, I am neither happy nor sad about her leaving New Old Town, although it does raise some questions in my mind which are probably better kept to myself at this point.

I still don't understand why she is leaving after re-reading this forum Kendra. Can you (or anyone) explain this course of action? Ulrika has said many things that I took as an intention to offend, but it never seemed to bother her before.

Why is this suddenly different?

If she did something as an official of Neualtenburg, I can understand stepping down from office, but why leave as a citizen?

whatever. I've decided to place you on ignore.

You'ld have to ask Ulrika that.

Well, perhaps today is a good day after all.

Hmm.. what exactly is this about? I'm new, and have no idea where this conversation came from.

Oh, dad came home drunk and got in an argument with mom again. Old people. Let's go upstairs and watch the Big Blue House.

I have no understanding of N'burg. But from the discussions it seems like she was the "president/face/representitive" of the government, if you want to call it a government.

If the president of the USA, or even the president of Disney was to publicly attack a person because of differing opinions, it would reflect on their country/company. That's why holding a public office or a position of authority over others place one in the unique situation.

What is "you'ld"?

Neualtenburg has no "President". There is no real executive branch in fact.

We have a three branch Government composed of:

A Representative Assembly --A legislative senate

An Artist's Guild -- like a Labor Union/Treasury

A Philosophical Council -- Sort of a Constitutional University.

Ulrika was the head of our University, and served as council on interpreting N'burg Constitutional law.

If there is a "face" to the outside world, it would be more properly ascribed to members of the Representative Assembly. Specifically our LRA -- Pendari.

I'm going to have to reread this thread. Are you really saying that this whole thing wasn't the usual gaming of the forums, say things I'm not supposed to, yada, yada, yada?

After self admittedly playing a forum game and reveling over the brilliance over the recent three thread hat trick this week, it's just going to be awhile before this townsperson takes the sheep tenders cries for help against the wolf seriously.

I have no clue what this even means.

Do you think they're really getting a divorce this time?

That's how I feel about the whole dramatic departure from Nealtenburg.

If we get a new mom I hope she's a weak-theist.

Then why bother to comment on it?

Wasn't I supposed to infer that the "Dynamic Duo" was being elitist, placing themselves far beyond the mental sphere of others, when you claimed (without offering any proof) that they were calling people dense, uneducated, or one of the myriad of other attacks upon people's intelligence, while making fallacies themselves? God, I guess I'm too dumb to understand it the way you want me to. Maybe if you quote a few more commandments I'll get the point.



I mean quoting it like canon instead of suggestions or opinions (otherwise I would think that you'd paraphrase your points rather than quoting it ALL and highlighting what are largely commands, but apparently I'm wrong). You're very excitable. Push one button, stand back and watch the magic. That's why I like you.



Not on leap years.