Atheists who attack Christianity

Remember elementary school? Just replace your phrase with "Do not contradict your teacher or end up in the principal's office."

These things are differences of degree, not of kind. The habit of examining things critically is sometimes taught in schools, but generally not until high school or college.

I agree, that's why I think the humanist faith shouldn't have free run of public schools. Let the Humanists teach their kids abiogenesis is fact at home.

That's why I say if there is to be a level playing field, all the humanist stuff must go or there must be a counter balance added to their propaganda.

How do you explain the enduring myth of Heaven?

What proof do you have that "heaven" is only a myth?

yeah we got that, thanks for the input

I'm sorry - qua? "humanist faith"?

Got scriptures for this?
A tax-exempt church?
Got clergy?
Dogma?
Anything?

Let me go pull a biology coursebook from my shelf ... Hm. No, abiogenesis is mentioned here as a /hypothesis/ - it explicitly states /hypothesis/ - as to the origins of life on earth, and one which was supported by the inconclusive Urey-Miller experiments. Nowhere in here does it mention abiogenesis as a /fact/, much less a scientific fact.

And nothing here discussed involves any faith whatsoever. It states at the beginning of my 302 Biology text's discussion of evolutionary discipline that abiogenesis is unobserved, and that there is some work supporting a specific model for it but that it is not reproducible nor is abiogenesis itself demonstrable at this time.

Seems like what they're teaching kids is that abiogenesis is a working hypothesis, and not as a fact - looks like you've built a strawman.

Since Reitsuki or Billybob can't seem to respond with an answer, only a way of sweeping it beneath a rug, let me remind you, that it was Reitsuki and others like Reitsuki who label Christianity and Heaven as "myths". Religion, any religion, can and is label these days "myths" by non-believers and it is an accepted argument, as though the myth they are pushing is one of educated hypothesis or fact, whereas believers of any religion put their faith and their beliefs in nothing more that mystical words handed down over thousand of years.

And, Reitsuki, this thread began as something far more different than what the last 40 or so responses have taken it to.

Uh, I SERIOUSLY don't think you know who you're talking about.

You might wanna look into that!

Don't bother, a dozen threads hasn't gotten the point across to him yet.

Ho Hum. Just another response which really goes no where. Good luck with that.

Hey, you're the one accusing me of something that never happened. If you wanna talk about things going nowhere.

I'm fairly certain your confusing me with someone else in this thread.

Now to the second part of that.

"Propaganda"? Let's talk propaganda, shall we.

Evolution is science. It is a theory, and a fact. It is demonstrable across the planet, and is demonstrated every day.

The Discovery Institute, a "think tank" - actually a spin-tank PR firm - has been funded with millions upon millions of dollars in an all-out propaganda assault on teaching evolution in public schools for the past few decades. There's this thing called the "Wedge Document" - ever heard of it? It explicitly outlines their propaganda techniques.

They took a book, called "Of Pandas and People", which was originally a propaganda book about christian Creationism, and re-worked it as "Intelligent Design". This is a publicly recorded /fact/, by the way - read the Kitzmiller vs Dover decision. This 'textbook' is propaganda.
Jack Chick pamphlets.
Broadcasts by evangelical preachers.
Speeches from pulpits.
Grass-roots campaigns to have people stand outside of schools.

I've witnessed it, I've watched it.

"humanism" is not undergoing a "propaganda" campaign. According to IRS records, the people undergoing a massive propaganda campaign would be Howard Ahmanson, Jr. - who has funded the Discovery Institute - and evangelical preachers across the country and within the Southern Baptist Convention. Everything from the laughable claims of Kent Hovind all the way to the subtle screwiness of Dembski's mis-take on information theory has been a massive mis-information campaign, coordinated by a group of fundamentalist Christian Zealots lead by an racist hate-mongering Christian zealot whose publicly stated aims include stoning homosexuals to death and replacing the Republic of the United States of America with a Christian Theocracy.


Hmmmmm

And these "humanists" are merely asking that evolution be taught in science classes as a science fact because it is a science fact.

Who're the propagandists again?

Oh don't be dissin' my man Jack! The man is a brilliant satirist!

Oh, wait...

Doh.

Reitsuki, it tears my heart to see your illusion shattered.

Eh! I survived "Darkest Dungeons", Chick mostly just amuses the hell out of me.

It's good to see you're a survivor.

the crucified 'savoir' of christianity is itself possible (highly possible) to attribute as homoerotic masochistic bondage

Someone associates death and christianity, so what?

So, I decided I'd go find out about this "humanist propaganda".

Hmm..

"Humanism is a broad category of active ethical philosophies that affirm the dignity and worth of all people, based on the ability to determine right and wrong by appeal to universal human qualities—particularly rationalism."

OMGoth - their propaganda affirms the /dignity/ and /worth/ of /all people/! Based on the /ability/ to determine right and wrong from, say, /reason/!

I've, it seems, it seems to me, I've heard this befOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRREEE

*FLASHBACK* The Colonies 1795

*ON A TABLE IN A PUB SITS A SLIGHTLY WEATHERED PAMPHLET*

*EMBOSSED UPON ITS' PARCHMENT COVER THE TITLE*

"The Age of Reason"

*CAMERA PANS DOWN TO AUTHOR*

"Thomas Paine"

*CAMERA PANS OVER TO PUB SITTER DRESSED IN PERIOD CLOTHING*

*PUB SITTER HOLDS A PARCHMENT REPRODUCTION OF AMERICAN CONSTITUTION AND BILL OF RIGHTS*

Pub Sitter: "Hmmmm. The American Legal system, my friend, is based on the rule of law, and protects the rights and dignities of all men, not just some. Here, 'We hold these truths to be self-evident..'"

*CAMERA FADES TO BLACK* *FLASHBACK ENDS*

I'm sorry, you wanted /what/ to not be taught in American public schools?

hmm ironically it was Thomas Jefferson and that was the Declaration of Independance. Not the Constitution, there was also this following that line " that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Now I ask you to try doing actual research instead of false statements.

http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/DeclarInd

Miss the forest for the trees, much?

do you? the Declaration of Independance isn't law.

Kevn,

I think what BB is saying, is that regardless of whether or not anyone else can or cannot forgive him for what he has done, he is not yet ready to forgive himself. Regardless of the disagreements in opinion he and I may have, I can certainly understand that he has his reasons for feeling as he does.

To simply say "God will forgive you, get over it buddy!" is to take something that he views as absolutely horrid and just say to himself "Ah, nevermind. It's all good", and someone with honor cannot just shrug aside things he feels may not be honorable.

I can understand where BB is coming from with this, and attempting to convince him that forgiving himself because god may have, doesn't excuse the guilt he feels over it. He needs to come to terms with the issue before he can look to others... including divinity.

It was a fictional flashback to a fictional conversation - meant to refer the reader back to the values held and instilled in American law by our Founding Fathers. I put the ellipsis in for a reason - I wasn't building an entire scene. I was making a humorous take on my point - that the American legal system is based on the rule of law, and of reason - and those who know the history of the last phrase know that Jefferson changed it from "sacred and undeniable" specifically to support the separation of church and state in following the charter of Virginia. What ever that character was about to say is left up to the imagination of the reader - and we've clearly seen what your imagination inserted there.

Again, - /do you miss the forest for the trees much/?

One should examine the facts of textbook bias first....

An Evaluation of Ten Recent Biology Textbooks
And Their Use of Selected Icons of Evolution Evaluated:

http://www.arn.org/docs/wells/jw_tbookreport900.htm

The bias is clearly real. Humanism is allowed in schools, and must be forced on all poor children. Others can buy a decent education.

arn.org is an ID site. Do you really think they count as unbiased in this fight?

The information is straight forward. Would I use the Bible to make a point to atheists? No... but I wouldn't use the humanist manafesto either.