Two US soldiers tortured to death, where is the outrage from the left now????

After we pull out, I'll make popcorn and we can laugh together as they continue to blow each other up until one political/religious/ethnic faction kills and terrorizes the others enough so that they can enact another brutal dictatorship.

Good times.

Muslims? Uhm --they didn't exist yet --so that's kind of tricky.

Here's what the Bible says about non-believers though:

Exodus 22:18 Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

Exodus 22:20 He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.

Luke 19:27 "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." -Jesus Christ

Matthew 10:34 "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." -Jesus Christ

2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Romans 1 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

ok my last post in this thread, because its time to go home from work

Christianity has been around since the year 0 AD correct?
Islam was founded 700 years later circa 800 AD
Christianity in its early years had the same sort of problems with extremists, IE Knights Templar, who slaughtered thousands of Jews/Muslims/Pagans/w/e.
Every religion goes through a stage of radical extremists, call it "adolescence" I guess, however once reason breaks the stranglehold of the mind caused by religious fanatasism, Islamic terrorists will diminish in number. Many people have forgotten that Islam is a relatively new religion and needs to experience its "growing pains" IE adaptation to the modern world. Now I think the War in Iraq was nessacary, however it was carried out the wrong way. I think the current situation with Iran is being handled better, due to lessons learned in Iraq. The problem with just abandoning Iraq now is, it would descend into secular chaos. Right now we are the only thing keeping the differing sects of Islam from attacking each other. We saw a glimpse of this earlier this year.

Now many people say we were not asked to invade Iraq by the Iraqi people. This is partly true, we weren't expressedly asked to topple Saddom; however, the Iraqi people had tried numerous times to remove Saddom from power. He just crushed them with, at the time, was the 4th largest army in the world. We just finished what they tried to do. In fact if you would research Saddom's trial you would see that he is on trial for the way he cracked down on the "resistance(1)".

I feel that once Iraq has a functioning government that is able to handle the tasks that are required (IE building and running schools, maintaining hospitals and other things a civilization requires) that peace and understanding will take root at least in Iraq. I like to compare current Iraq to colonial America, both of "us(2)" needed help to throw off our oppressors, for them its the US and for the US it was the French. The comparison is fairly accurate, in that 1/3 of the population supports/advocates the change where another 1/3 is diametricaly opposed and resents the change and usually takes up arms against it (torres anyone?) and then the middle 1/3 is apathetic and doesn't care either way. It will take time for the ideals and freedoms to take root, but once they do we will be thanked, maybe not for 50 years, but it will happen. Thinking further on the comparison, our first formative years and theirs were influenced by outside sources (the British and al qada, respectively)

Anyway this is just my feelings on the whole thing, take them or leave them.






1. there was a bomb/landmine attack on his limo in a town and he ordered the whole town's death. *Summarization of testimony and charges
2. "us" refers to the citizens of each nation.

oh wait! There's more!!

Morally Repugnant Christian Quotes Advocating Killing and Rape


"[The Israelites] warred against the Midianites, as the LORD commanded Moses; and they slew all the males. [...] And the children of Israel took all the women of Midian captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. And they took all the spoil, and all the prey, both of men and of beasts. [...] And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? [...] Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Numbers 31:7-18, KJV)
That's just beautiful, isn't it? Imagine telling that to your kids as a bedtime story: "And then the Lord commanded Moses to murder all the male babies and the women who have had sex. But they kept alive all the young nubile virgin girls so that they could have fun raping them, and so everyone lived happily ever after."

"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones."
(Psalms 137:8-9, KJV)
O daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us -- he who seizes your infants and dashes their brains against the rocks.

"And [Joshua's army] utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. [...] [Joshua] left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded."
(Joshua 6:21 and 10:40)
Ahhh, another beautiful bedtime story. God commanded Joshua to murder a whole city, so he took his army into the city and they stabbed everyone in the belly with their swords, including the children and animals!

"I will sing praise to your name, O Most High.... The enemies have vanished in everlasting ruins; their cities you have rooted out; the very memory of them has perished.... The LORD will swallow [up his enemies] in his wrath, and fire will consume them. [He] will destroy their offspring from the earth ... their children from ... humankind."
(Psalms 9:2, 6, and 21:9-10)
Such a benevolent god.

"[Thousands of angels] proclaimed with loud voices: 'Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth, wisdom and might, honor and glory and praise!'... I saw heaven wide open, and a white horse appeared; its rider's name was Faithful and True, for he is just in judgment and just in war.... [H]e was robed in a garment dyed in blood, and he was called the Word of God. The armies of heaven followed him.... Out of his mouth came a sharp sword to smite the nations; for it is he who will rule them with a rod of iron, and tread the winepress of the fierce wrath of God the sovereign Lord."
(Revelation 5:11-12 and 19:11, 13-15)
Worthy is the person who has killed people in order to get power and wealth? What sort of morals are these to teach to your children?? If god were a person, we would have put him in jail with a life sentence by now.

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword."
(Jesus according to Matthew 10:34, KJV)
"Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip; and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
(Jesus according to Luke 22:36, KJV)

Great, Jesus, that is just what we need -- more violence, more wars, no peace. I think Jesus (if he really existed at all) was a fugging ASSHOLE. The world needs PEACE, not violence, and yet here we have Jesus saying that he sends violence (a sword) not peace.

"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."
(Jesus according to Luke 19:27, KJV)
Here we have another example of Jesus being a homicidal megalomaniac. Bring all the people that he does not reign over, and murder them in front of him? In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus as quoted above.

"And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, even a ram for a trespass offering. And the priest shall make an atonement for him with the ram of the trespass offering before the LORD for his sin which he hath done: and the sin which he hath done shall be forgiven him."
(Leviticus 19:20 - 19:22)
If you read this carefully, you will see that it is saying that if a man has sex with a slave woman, then she must be scourged/punished, but the man's sins "shall be forgiven him". A man can rape a slave women and be forgiven!
"And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire."
(Leviticus 21:9)
In other words, if the daughter of a priest has sex, she must be burnt to death. Good ol' Christian morals.

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished. [...] Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children."
(Isaiah 13:15-1
Kill the children in front of their parents, and rape the wives! _HOLY SHIT_! How much of a perverted psychopath do you have to be to write something like that?? I think the christian bible must have been written by serial killers!

"And Moses said, Thus saith the LORD, About midnight will I go out into the midst of Egypt: And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts."
(Exodus 11:4-5)
As you can see above, christianity promotes killing people who believe differently, and it promotes children being "dashed to pieces" before the eyes of their parents, and young virgin girls being raped after their parents are killed. Even Jesus himself speaks of "slaying" people. Anyone who promotes the christian bible, knowing that it contains these things, is a SICK and TWISTED person. And note that the above is only a PARTIAL list of the sections of the bible promoting killing, rape and other sick activities!



http://spl.haxial.net/religion/violence/

Oh, so the Bible doesn't say to kill Muslims. Good to know!

As for me, I truly do believe Islam is the religion of peace, no matter how many of its representatives say or do otherwise, despite all the suicide bombs, the beheadings, the so-called honor killings and genital mutilations, the doctrines of dhimmitude and taqqiya, the wars and conflicts in Israel, Indonesia, Chechnya, the Phillipines and so many other places, the death threat against authors, the honoring of a man with a 6-year-old bride, the apartheid of half its people (all of this done in the name of religion, mind you).

Other than that? Yeah, Islam is all about peace.

It's what I've been saying all along, the god dude's seriously twisted, but people keep drinking the koolaid and dropping the bombs.

With regard to the subject of the thread.

These soldiers were captured POW's and what perplexes me is that the media has not called them that.

We are at war and they were captured - that makes them prisoners or war.

Are we not at war with Iraq? Just who captured and murdered these soldiers?

This directly violates Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War. Unfortunately we cannot take the high road with regard to the Geneva Conventions as we have not followed them ourselves of recent. This is one of the reasons that the Geneva Conventions are in place, so that when our soldiers are captured, they are treated in the same manner as we would treat the soldiers we capture.

I am outraged that this is happening to the people who serve our country and I am outraged that we have people in office who have taken our country to such a moral low with Abu Grab and Guantanamo Bay that we cannot call on the Geneva Conventions to protect them.
.

Don't worry, it wasn't written for you to understand. Go back to enjoying your outrage.

Billy, why are you only outraged about the deaths of TWO soldiers? What about all the other service people that have been killed?? Do they not matter? Or is it only because these two were tortured? You say we NEVER get any of our captured people back? What about that Jessica whatever her last name was? OOOH or what about the missionaries over there who have been kidnapped and murdered? What about them? Are you outraged about that? Or is it just these two soldiers? Cause if it's only these two soldiers, that's some seriously messed up thinking you got going on.

How could you not know that? The Bible was written long before Muslims exsisted. Are you shouting for a re-write or something?

I say he does not care any more about these deaths than the hundreds of others. He is shamefully using their deaths to make some political point and to attack a religion.

Actually, his thinking is much more messed up than that because he does not seem to have any consideration for the tens of thousands of *innocent* Muslims who have died in this war. This is part of the reason people here in this forum are calling him a bigot, a hatemonger, and ignorant - and rightfully so.

Using these men's deaths as a stage prop in your continued attack on "liberals" is disgusting. It is a disservice to the men and women who have dedicated their lives to preserving our liberty. These are people with families and loved ones, not card board cut outs to use when you feel like pushing your own political agenda.

I didn't suggest it. I said it. And using these men's death to push your own politics is another slap.

Yeah, you didn't say we should torture them. You just said if we do you don't want to hear about it. I guess that's morally defensible. In a twisted sort of way.

Do you honestly believe this? That we've lost the moral high ground because of Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo?

We scare our prisoners with dogs, stack them in homosexual pyramids, flush their religious texts down the toilet. They beat, use electric shocks, cut off their testicles and behead their prisoners. Can't you cut us a little slack here?

And should we compare the relative outrage in our respective communities over these offenses?

The implication that the worst forms of torture are justified because we have not followed the Geneva Conventions is ridiculous. If they want to hold on to our prisoners without facing a military trial or without providing counsel, okay. Subject them to the same interrogation techniques even. But I don't think we need the Geneva Conventions to tell us that using power tools to mutilate a prisoner is not quite kosher.

Hate the war, if you like. But this kind of black-and-white rhetoric is just simplistic. We treat our prisoners ten times better than any mideast government and they treat their prisoners many times better than the terrorists we're talking about.

Yep, things were going swimmingly over in Iraq before we got involved. No innocent lives lost there, no sirree.

Your point being?

Very constructive. Thanks for the input. I hope we never take your advice.

Meaning that the tens of thousands of deaths are nothing compared to what was going on before, with no end in sight. What was your solution (other than looking the other way so we wouldn't get the blame)?

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The point of the Geneva Conventions is that we don't violate them and they don't violate them. That's the point. We have had prisoners die in our care, beaten to death. I'm not saying that justifies the death of these two men. I'm saying it was in violation of the Geneva Conventions.

We cannot call upon the world to be outraged and to help us to force them to adhere to the Geneva Conventions, when they could call upon the rest of the world to do the same with us.

Which I think is the reason no one in the Whitehouse has referred to these two soldiers as "captured" but persists in referring to them as "kidnapped". There is a BIG damn difference!

These men were NOT civilians; they were serving their country during a war and were captured by the enemy. That makes them prisoners of war. Not kidnap victims.

As such, they should have been treated according to the Geneva Conventions and our country's leaders should have called upon the UN and others to help assure that this does not happen again.

But they won't, because if they did... questions about our own tactics would be raised.

.

Your so welcome

Who's talking about blame? I'm saying: Caring for the death of two people because they're like you versus not caring for the death for tens of thousands of people because they're not like you is seriously fucked up.
Must be Idiots Day Out.

Damn lefties, if they keep demanding fair treatment of prisoners everyone will end up tortured to death! I'm outraged! I mean, clearly if you think that prisoners deserve to be treated like human beings then that means you enjoy hearing that prisoners were brutally killed!

reread the exchange and try once more